Hang on...what happened to shields?

[Elyssaen]

An Elite cobra NPC will use FA-off, SCBs and chaff intelligently, will be more accurate in shooting at you. That alone makes it more of a threat than a lower ranked python that will do all these things less well. Weight of fire downrange doesn't count for beans if it misses

Exactly. My question is, is this what's changed? In the past the combat rank didn't seem to matter too much. I definitely noticed it when dropping into an SSS to see two Anacondas, thinking "Hey, why not" and then finding that their Harmless/Novice ranking seems to correspond to being completely unarmed. But mostly an enemy's combat rank didn't make a huge difference. Elite Cobras were as trivial as Expert and Novice Cobras.

So the question: is a change to the effectiveness of the higher rankings the core issue behind this thread?

 

[davidself1001]

Not intending to jump into this scramble but i definitely notice a change in the shields. Yesterday i could slam into asteroids and not affect my shields at all. today i get massive damage. I also have problems while facing the same NPCs i faced yesterday (eg Dangerous level Fed Drop ships) without even taking any damage they make two/three passes on me and shields are gone. I have had it happen 4/5 times with the same result and i have never had it happen since i got my Python so i tend to agree that something has changed. Maybe it's not the shields but the Asteroid collision seems to indicate something in the shields isn't the same.

 

[Reaper99]

I dunno, but the same thing happened to my poor Python, except it was a Diamondback Explorer with pulse lasers and a Cobra III with small frag cannons. Same story, shields nearly went down after three passes from the Cobra and a glancing two-second strike from the Exploder - and this is with A-rank shields and TWO A-rank boosters. Somewhere, somehow, I think someone moved a decimal point...

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What I'm seeing here is some moron who's never flown a combat ship, much less paid the repair bill for a damaged Python. Sure, this would be fine if the bounty rewards per ship were something like a million bucks, because then it'd be worth it to take one ship out and be forced to fly back for repairs. Right now? Absolutely ridiculous. I paid a damn sight more than a Cobra's worth for my Python, and I don't expect it to be able to be taken out by a Cobra because of that. And keep in mind, this is a ship I spent over two hundred hours grinding for. When you actually spend some time trying to earn a ship, THEN you can come back and state your opinion. For now, get out.

Well wouldn't say get out...for one we may not know what he's got in his garage...and I don't agree with him...some ppl shield tank so they tend to be the more nimble fighter types...some well are more like a bulldog...and just can take the beating...ie hull reinforcement...armor..etc...and I did get my A graded shields stripped fast on my first drop into a cz after horizon install...and spent the cash for replacement...glade it wasn't a graded python at that time...my reset ship seems to be acting like the old one...cept the shield cells but I knew that was gonna nerf...don't like the new mechanic but...aside from repair cost...I can live with it...just gotta be more careful.

and as to cheaper ships taking out pythons and more expensive ships...we gotta remember more expensive does not equate to invincibility...nore does it mean you can ignore the cheap ship...just means there might be more resilience...ie your shield can take more hits from a given attack...I know that it takes absolutely forever to take down a damn corvette shield on a npc....they must have shield boosters cuz at the dying end of the last ring...it holds on forever....exaggeration there but...it aint no joke either...they are tanky...actually was kinda scarey seeing that thing pop in a cz in horizons....condas and pythons just make me see dollar signs usually but when that hit the scene I was very concerned...then got brave and attacked...attacked....attacked...etc and then it went boom...mean while shields were getting shredded for a bit...till power plant went to 0...then still had to wear the bulkhead down to go boom...

agree that the larger ships are more survivable and should be...but lets face it...if someone takes out your 240 mil ship with a 17 mil ship...sometimes it aint the equipment folks...sometimes we shoulda just run from a loosing fight im thinkin....just old fart opinion and we do get grumpy but...might be closer to truth...even the best rated ship isn't invincible...not saying a sidewinder should be able to take you down...but im pretty sure that the guy taking out pythons and condas gotta work for it...it aint gonna be easy.

 

[Tyrit Shadowstalker]

on the subject of shielding... someone with anime princess rep, can you give us a heads up if the bi weave shields come in prismatic flavor?

 

[Kristov]

on the subject of shielding... someone with anime princess rep, can you give us a heads up if the bi weave shields come in prismatic flavor?

Don't need rep with her to answer that, nope, they are a special type of shield all their own, C class only.

 

[IceFire122]

For me, a couple of changes influenced my shield strength w/o any additional nerf to shields:
-Changing from Prismatic to Bi-Weave: -33% strength on a Python
-Shield Cell Heat requiring 1 heat sink per bank: -20% strength/Cell bank as boosters are uninstalled.

So, I went from 570 MJ to 319 MJ in a Python. It is no longer the tank in respect to high damage bursts and the remaining cell bank is an emergency measure.
Hence, I had to start watching my shield status more closely, as some ships, especially FAS, Rail-Eagles, Rail-Asp can deliver high dps. Also, two medium fixed beams can be painful (38 MJ/s damage), as damage reduction only affects hull damage.

On the other hand the Bi-Weave's +50% recharge rate might still be worth the lower strength, as it potentially saves shield cells and can increase combat endurance. I am thinking about getting rid of the double chaff for PvE and use 2 Boosters instead to increase my shield strength again.

All the changes made me think more about load out and tactics, even for PvE. What is interesting for me, might be a back breaker for inexperienced players.

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Don't need rep with her to answer that, nope, they are a special type of shield all their own, C class only.

Nope, no Prismatic Bi-Weaves. This would have been overkill for sure.

 

[Fire70]

The poor npc need to cheat. LOL.

Yep immersion FTW. This does annoy me. Surely FD can develop NPC's who preform well within the same rules and constraints as players...

Haven't played 1.5 yet and given how well FD has done with bugs in the last few patches I may wait a while..

 

[Four Muffins]

I'm finding that I'm having to adopt the play style I used in Dark Souls. Lots of moving, quick jabs. I think the changes have forced me to fly my Courier like it was meant to be flown, instead of flying backwards in front of a FAS, drilling it's canopy because I'm lazy.

 

[Kristov]

For me, a couple of changes influenced my shield strength w/o any additional nerf to shields:
-Changing from Prismatic to Bi-Weave: -33% strength on a Python
-Shield Cell Heat requiring 1 heat sink per bank: -20% strength/Cell bank as boosters are uninstalled.

So, I went from 570 MJ to 319 MJ in a Python. It is no longer the tank in respect to high damage bursts and the remaining cell bank is an emergency measure.
Hence, I had to start watching my shield status more closely, as some ships, especially FAS, Rail-Eagles, Rail-Asp can deliver high dps. Also, two medium fixed beams can be painful (38 MJ/s damage), as damage reduction only affects hull damage.

On the other hand the Bi-Weave's +50% recharge rate might still be worth the lower strength, as it potentially saves shield cells and can increase combat endurance. I am thinking about getting rid of the double chaff for PvE and use 2 Boosters instead to increase my shield strength again.

All the changes made me think more about load out and tactics, even for PvE. What is interesting for me, might be a back breaker for inexperienced players.

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Nope, no Prismatic Bi-Weaves. This would have been overkill for sure.

Did you consider replacing an SCB, if you carry multiples, with some HRP? I know for myself, since I've never used SCBs(tested em, far too silly health potion for my taste), I'll go with some HRPs once I stop mining, but I also rely more on my hull's strength overall as opposed to my shields. Very tempting to get a FGS for that very reason...ugly as those FedRat ships are, they ARE damned tough with a lot of hull on em.

 

[Kissinger]

Are you people working under the assumption that playing Elite is meant to be fun?

 

[IceFire122]

Did you consider replacing an SCB, if you carry multiples, with some HRP? I know for myself, since I've never used SCBs(tested em, far too silly health potion for my taste)

I did consider and still am.

Using only 1 SCB right now and one class 5 HRP, which is another live extender/saver. As the ship is used for multiple-roles without refits, I keep slots for cargo.
I am somewhat reluctant to remove the remaining SCB, though this would give me another shield booster and another HRP (or More Cargo). Maybe, one day, I will try, but not yet.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

For me, a couple of changes influenced my shield strength w/o any additional nerf to shields:
-Changing from Prismatic to Bi-Weave: -33% strength on a Python
-Shield Cell Heat requiring 1 heat sink per bank: -20% strength/Cell bank as boosters are uninstalled.

So, I went from 570 MJ to 319 MJ in a Python. It is no longer the tank in respect to high damage bursts and the remaining cell bank is an emergency measure.
Hence, I had to start watching my shield status more closely, as some ships, especially FAS, Rail-Eagles, Rail-Asp can deliver high dps. Also, two medium fixed beams can be painful (38 MJ/s damage), as damage reduction only affects hull damage.

Wow you've got weaker shields than my Imperial Clipper now (with C7 Bi-weave shields).

 

[Yokoshima]

Did you consider replacing an SCB, if you carry multiples, with some HRP? I know for myself, since I've never used SCBs(tested em, far too silly health potion for my taste), I'll go with some HRPs once I stop mining, but I also rely more on my hull's strength overall as opposed to my shields. Very tempting to get a FGS for that very reason...ugly as those FedRat ships are, they ARE damned tough with a lot of hull on em.

Bit off topic, but try a FDS for a planetary assault. Beam turrets are actually useful there (not to mention its hard point placement) and it can make use of a cannon/PA. Because its cheap you can fit it with reactive armor, a good SCB, and a lot of HRPs + a cargo bay and SRV.

 

[Frag]

I played some CZ/HazRes's last night - did not notice one iota of difference. SCB's cooked my eggs but it wasnt so bad so I will keep cooking each time I use them, didnt do more than 1/2% module dmg so no biggie

 

[Four Muffins]

I take back what I said about sucking out the fun, and annoying, etc. The pacing is much better now.

 

[thorn-]

Rubbish! There are drawbacks to the Vulture - if you want to do anything other than combat, it's useless.

Erm... no.

One could also use that logic and say that the drawback to using a T6 is if you want to do combat, it's useless.

We're talking about COMBAT drawbacks - not "This hammer isn't the best hammer, because it isn't a screwdriver."

I'd be perfectly happy if the Vulture and Viper got buffs, but lost ALL ability to carry cargo....

 

[Kissinger]

It shouldn't be possible to ponce with your shields. (Introduced at about the same time as that PowerPants nonsense.)

Totally unnecessary complications, which are not only hard to understand, but *impossible* to properly balance in gameplay.

Remove them from the game and Elite's silliness level will immediately decrease whilst its combat transparency increases.

 

[Obnoxious_Gamer]

I am trying really hard not to respond in kind to you, that was me being very nice. I did give you constructive advice too, dump the turrets, go fixed, get some Mil Hull on that pig(I love my Python but she IS a pig when compared to a FDL or Clipper), those will make a lot of difference in how combat works out for you. And yes, the weapons you have mounted DO count for a lot in this situation, those ships shouldn't be getting close enough to use their frag cannons, turrets make them get in close and chaff a lot, I know MY targets chaff like they're throwing a ticker tape parade, hence the fixed weapons I use on my Python, they line up well enough to be very useful. If you use gimballed, learn to target something other than the ship chaffing so your weapons will all fire in the forward line like fixed, I personally target the next jump target or nearest planet(hotkey on my throttle) when I use gimballed(my Clipper). HRPs are a good call, you'll find you've got a lot more armor and you've got protection for your modules now with 2.0, get the Mil Hull and that gets even better. Some people prefer Reflect, mainly due to the fact that the hulls weren't working properly previously and Reflect gave the best damage reductions across the board instead of being stronger vs thermal and worse vs ballistic, but that's fixed, so go with Military.

Personally, I'd set up 3 large pulses(gimballed) and 2 medium MCs(gimballed) on your Python, I think you'll find it runs cooler and does more damage then you'd imagine, as lasers are less effective against hulls than shields, and MCs chew up hulls very nicely...they also chew up shields decently without heating you up. I suggest gimballed because using fixed isn't easy even on a Python, it costs me a little time sometimes but I'm used to it, but if you really want to master combat, go with fixed and learn to dance that pig around her axis using FA Off and On for best effect. Kornelius has some great videos on that, I highly suggest watching them. Some of the others who you've insulted here are actually combat masters as well, listen to what they said, it's worth your time.

Funny, I'm ranked as 'Master' in combat as well. I have no idea how telling me that 'scrub is too nice of a word for you' would seem nice to anyone, but whatever. Given your feedback on shields and some from other threads, I'm reasonably sure that the A6 shield module is bugged. A few people have said that dying made it work again, so I've sold and re-bought my shield to see if that works. I'm also going to replace the beams with burst lasers, as those seem to be more effective at AP than either of the other types.

As for your comments directed toward me as a pilot, why do you just assume that you're better than someone else because they're using a different loadout? My equipped guns had nothing to do with how much damage the enemy AI did, other than perhaps bringing the enemy a little closer to me. Calling someone "worse than a scrub" because they have a different opinion on weapons than you do destroys any credibility you would've had. I know a few FA toggle manuevers, and I've flown the Fer-De-Lance and the Clipper. If you'd get off your high horse for three seconds and actually take this seriously as a bug, rather than everyone else just being worse than you, your advice might be taken a lot better.

EDIT: Well, switching the shield out sorta fixed it. Unfortunately, Military Strikes are now completely impossible thanks to some sadistic nut giving every AI ship railguns and only railguns. Had I not had three Rail-Eagles and a Rail-Asp shooting me at the same time despite a Corvette trying to kill them, I would've been fine. The AI really need to stop shooting at my ship when I haven't even deployed hardpoints, let alone killed any of them.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Except this is a game not fighter pilot training for real world applications. That said it needs to remain fun to the biggest percentage of players and I highly doubt that is the very vocal minority that want this to be Dark souls in space...

Speaking as a (very old) trained fighter pilot, my feeling is that the vocal minority want space to be their personal playground.

I remember being that age- and being that arrogant.

Sooner or later, the top 5% of the distribution curve will be screaming just as loudly.

 

[Nightbringerx]

I noticed shields charge faster with more pips to them.
So maybe combat needs more power management rather just than pips to weapons.
If this is the case, it will make combat a heck of a lot more interesting.