Horizons and Base Game 4.0 first impressions

[Riverside]

Unless they devote dev resources to plug whatever holes might be in the code and in the logic of the game and make sure a horizons player will never get to murder an obviously human player or npc (and get entertained by post-death ragdoll postures) - instancing between Horizons and Odyssey will never happen. And also Odyssey will never get to fold in the base game as it happened with Horizons.

The plan is to move to one codebase (4.x on PC). There are some obvious significant hurdles to overcome before 3.8 support can be dropped and perhaps it may never actually happen, but undoubtedly 4.x on PC is the future, at least until the next rewrite. If we ever actually get another pDLC of course.

It is less clear that future expansions will require Odyssey specific features (as was the case with Horizons when it became part of the base game purchase) but it does seem to be inevitable that future content will expand on the 4.x client rather than the 3.8 one.

 

[Red Rocket]

Fdev calls Odyssey a DLC, but I see it as a completely new version of Elite Dangerous not a DLC more like ( Elite Dangerous 2 )

Odyssey has new Engine, new planet tech, new UI, not compatible with Horizons 3.8 separate logins.
They even renamed the game to “ Odyssey “

They just used Horizons as a template for the new version.

The point is that both versions should be kept alive

 

[Northpin]

before 3.8 can be dropped and perhaps it may never actually happen

i really hope that may never happen

The plan is to move to one codebase.

unfortunately, that doesnt necessarily mean they will allow instancing between Horizons and Odyssey players.
they may, but it's not a guarantee.

 

[Jack Winter]

Please correct me if I'm wrong? As both EDO and EDH (4.0) commanders could land on the same non atmospheric planet and EDO commanders can get out of their ships and murder each other on foot, it would seem that due to PEGI ratings it is simply impossible for them to let both versions instance together..

 

[Morbad]

Why not?

Because I don't need the 3.8 client.

While I'm still annoyed about the performance differential between 4.0 and 3.8, it's only meaningful (on the systems in question) in actual Odyssey content, which requires 4.0 anyway. I am entirely fine with two-hundred FPS, and my wife doesn't care either way.

3.8 and 4.0 also share most configuration files. This is not a deal breaking issue, but there are settings that are optimal for one that do not play nice with the other and vice versa, so I'd perfer to only have one version of the client software.

I have enough storage to install both, but that doesn't mean I'm keen on squandering drive space when it can be avoided.

I also haven't paid Frontier anything since 2017 and have no intention of doing so until the game starts progressing in a way I find appealing (which I don't foresee ever happening), so I'm most certainly not going to allow my wife's account to be upgraded to an Odyssey one.

 

[Northpin]

Please correct me if I'm wrong? As both EDO and EDH (4.0) commanders could land on the same non atmospheric planet and EDO commanders can get out of their ships and murder each other on foot, it would seem that due to PEGI ratings it is simply impossible for them to let both versions instance together..

Correct, but there is a case to be made regarding instancing in space. But for that to happen they need to plug whatever holes might be in the code and in the game logic (while taking into consideration multicrew/teams and traveling between planets by Srv only )
You know, if it is forbidden, some people will devote an incredible amount of time to break that limitation

So the simplest solution is to completely disallow instancing between Horizons and Odyssey

 

[Riverside]

Please correct me if I'm wrong? As both EDO and EDH (4.0) commanders could land on the same non atmospheric planet and EDO commanders can get out of their ships and murder each other on foot, it would seem that due to PEGI ratings it is simply impossible for them to let both versions instance together..

What you describe as impossible can be solved with a warning text that the PEGI rating is higher & tick this box to accept & continue.

 

[Jack Winter]

Correct, but there is a case to be made regarding instancing in space. But for that to happen they need to plug whatever holes might be in the code and in the game logic (while taking into consideration multicrew/teams and traveling between planets by Srv only )
You know, if it is forbidden, some people will devote an incredible amount of time to break that limitation

So the simplest solution is to completely disallow instancing between Horizons and Odyssey

Yes, this is the conclusion that I came to. Does seem to make a lot of sense..

 

[Jack Winter]

What you describe as impossible can be solved with a warning text that the PEGI rating is higher & tick this box to accept & continue.

I don't think so, as long as FDev sells physical copies of the game..?

 

[Northpin]

I also haven't paid Frontier anything since 2017 and have no intention of doing so until the game starts progressing in a way I find appealing (which I don't foresee ever happening), so I'm most certainly not going to allow my wife's account to be upgraded to an Odyssey one.

I'm pretty sure you can eventually get an Odyssey key for like 5$ on some shady sites,
but i'm also sure it's not a money issue on your side but something completely different - and i'm not going there.

 

[Morbad]

I'm pretty sure you can eventually get an Odyssey key for like 5$ on some shady sites,
but i'm also sure it's not a money issue on your side but something completely different - and i'm not going there.

It's a righteous indignation issue.

Even if I wasn't already extremely disappointed in the overall trajectory of the game since 2.1, one more cent would be one cent too much to do something that I've already paid to be able to do and indeed can already do. My only practical agency here is voting with my proverbial wallet and I am not going to reward gross neglect.

I am, however, going to extract the maximal enjoyment I can out of what I have already paid for.

 

[BL1P]

Im at my limit now. I just tried VR 4.0 again on the lowest posible settings and it is so bad, that I dont want to play elite anymore.
Its utter garbage and Fdev should be ashamed.

Im sure tomorow I will be ok again but im so dimayed right now, they made a mess of my favoirite hobby

 

[Stealthie]

Please correct me if I'm wrong? As both EDO and EDH (4.0) commanders could land on the same non atmospheric planet and EDO commanders can get out of their ships and murder each other on foot, it would seem that due to PEGI ratings it is simply impossible for them to let both versions instance together..

I hate to say it but I suspect there's more to it.

Thing is, the FPS shouldn't really prevent players instancing together.
If EDH is PEGI 7 and doesn't allow users to participate in face-to-face murdering while EDO is PEGI 16 and does allow that, it shouldn't really prevent players instancing together for EDH content because no EDH player is ever going to see any murdering... because they don't have the PEGI 16-rated Odyssey DLC.

Unfortunately, I suspect there's a fundamental concern about allowing kids to inhabit an environment where teens and adults are also present.
Course, EDH is filled with adults but they should be aware there might be kids around and act accordingly.
Problem is, somebody could be playing Odyssey, with it's 16 rating, and do or say things that might upset a kid who's playing in EDH.

Basically, it's kind of like taking kids to a pub's beer garden.
A courteous person is likely to be aware there are kids around and moderate their behaviour/language to suit.
It's possible, though, that kids might get to see/hear things that aren't really appropriate for young eyes/ears.

Let's face it, there are people out there who're just waiting to see/hear something they don't think their little cherub should see/hear so they can screech about it on Twitter/Facebook/Mumsnet and outfits like HuffPo and The Metro can pick up the story and write articles about evil video games.

Given the numerous ways players can interact in ED, it seems like FDev have just chosen the "nuclear option" to ensure nobody who's complying with a 16 rating does/says anything that might not be appropriate for a younger player.


Having said all that, I'm pretty sure that PEGI ratings specifically ignore "online interactions" because it's impossible to ensure that players DO comply with them but I doubt that would help counter any negative publicity generated after a complaint.

 

[Old Duck]

Basically, it's kind of like taking kids to a pub's beer garden.
A courteous person is likely to be aware there are kids around and moderate their behaviour/language to suit.
It's possible, though, that kids might get to see/hear things that aren't really appropriate for young eyes/ears.

The irony is that it's often the kids who are ruining system chat and games like Overwatch. Some of the worst vulgarities and phobic slurs I've heard in multiplayer games have come from 12 year old boys. There should be more games rated PEGI-50, not to protect the children, but to protect us from the children!

 

[Sakashiro]

If EDH is PEGI 7 and doesn't allow users to participate in face-to-face murdering while EDO is PEGI 16 and does allow that, it shouldn't really prevent players instancing together for EDH content because no EDH player is ever going to see any murdering... because they don't have the PEGI 16-rated Odyssey DLC.

EDH4 has the same surface settlements as EDO but without NPC pedestrians. This makes sense because otherwise players could murder those NPCs with their SRVs. It isn't necessary to disembark to do so.

But this also means that EDH and EDO players cannot share instances on planets, because the content there isn't the same. In space however, there is no such problem.

 

[galahad2069]

I don't think so, as long as FDev sells physical copies of the game..?

Well that physical copy of Hor 4.0 contains the exact same code as Ody.
Basically you order a virgin Bloody Mary but you'll still get the vodka along with it, in a small closed bottle.

 

[Jack Winter]

EDH4 has the same surface settlements as EDO but without NPC pedestrians. This makes sense because otherwise players could murder those NPCs with their SRVs. It isn't necessary to disembark to do so.

But this also means that EDH and EDO players cannot share instances on planets, because the content there isn't the same. In space however, there is no such problem.

Yes, but it starts getting complicated when you consider multi crew, tele presence, etc. I frankly think it's better that it's cleanly separated instead of sprinkling the code with lots of if {} statements to try to take into account all the different instancing variations that could occur and trying to prevent it. No way to know how many bugs that would bring

 

[Sakashiro]

Yes, but it starts getting complicated when you consider multi crew, tele presence, etc. I frankly think it's better that it's cleanly separated instead of sprinkling the code with lots of if {} statements to try to take into account all the different instancing variations that could occur and trying to prevent it. No way to know how many bugs that would bring

Isn't that ironic? Frontier's game separates players on instance change all the time, but if you ask them to do it on purpose, they can't.

 

[Jack Winter]

That's probably because of block/friends lists, different geographic areas, shoddy P2P connections, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'd join the war cries for better instancing in a second, but I think in this case they are really better off just cleanly blocking all instancing instead of trying to hard code every possible permutation.

 

[Sakashiro]

That's probably because of block/friends lists, different geographic areas, shoddy P2P connections, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'd join the war cries for better instancing in a second, but I think in this case they are really better off just cleanly blocking all instancing instead of trying to hard code every possible permutation.

Does Horizons allow sharing instances with the base game?