HOTAS/HOSAS-setup: Thinking of switching from traditional throttle to VKB Omni Throttle (or possibly dual stick)

[Fnord Velkor]

During the play session I realized my left hand is leaning to heavily on the stick urging it to the left. I already had the heaviest springs installed, after the play session I adjusted the position of the stick a bit to the left and also tightened the clutch for the X-axis alot. ...

1. I used the supplied plate to lock the x-axis.

2. "I decided to not bind a throttle axis" - So you are using your throttle as a not-throttle.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Yeah, at this point it is more a HOSAS than a HOTAS setup with a weirdly shaped left stick. I do not want to lock the X axis, I want to use it for laterals.

 

[[VR] SpaceGhostC2C]

I run dual VKB Gunfighters, works really well..........time to upgrade

 

[Willyum-71]

The Omni Throttle arrived today, and after spending what felt like two hours of key binding I did my first play session. It did not go well, all my landings were terrible .

Ha Ha... I crashed like crazy too... The muscle memory takes a good week or 2. I have a Victory Class fleet carrier (I chose that one on purpose to be a playground... every nook and cranny on that carrier can fit a Cutter and T-10, even between all 3 engine gaps where it looks like 'no way I'm fitting a Cutter through there'... it fits! an even under the ramp at the back of the neck and inside the mouth. Not as good as going to a science outpost, but good enough to not have to leave home) I took every ship doing figure 8's between the head and the Control tower till I could control skimming my belly on the deck and going nose-in on the outside edges of the head and control tower to get used to HOSAS... then practicing tight orbits (then eventually FA-Off.... before you know it, my brain suddenly started to click with the omni throttle and the amount of precision control became amazing (I also have rotation as my verticals, and full hand movement left and right for left and right. Once it clicks, it feels REALLY good..... I think most HOSAS pilots that I've heard have said the same thing regardless of cheaper or expensive sticks ... It's like you feel more confident in tricky maneuvers.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Oh, and for those playing along at home: VKB has made a tiny miniscule change to the EVO base: They have added small red rubber grommets over the holes for the three clutch bolts to prevent them from falling out - they do rattle loose over time and fall out if you disengage the clutch as much as possible, which I did for my right stick; I like it loose. At some point I heard rattling in the stick base, and two bolts had fallen out. It is safe to remove the screws completely, just make sure not to lose them. The new red grommets prevent all that from happening.

Small but effective. Thumbs up!

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Did my second playsession last night. I had to keep readjusting the springs and clutches multiple times, which was a pain in the backside - dismounting it from its stand each time, adjust, remount, test, dislike it, repeat . I ended up with the hardest springs (the ones labeled "30") but with the clutch pretty loose. It became clear pretty quickly that any significant amount of dampening via the clutch would give me wrist pain very quickly. The twist is very stiff, but I know from my right stick that it will loosen fairly quickly to a comfortable level.

Anyway, with that setup I played around three hours last night. I still get a little drift to the left from time to time, but eventually I will adjust to that and just pay more... "muscle attention" to how the springs engage. I am pretty pleased with the button mapping so far, and nearing the end of my sessions my landings became more tolerable. I still need to think and sometimes overshoot back and forth on the landing pad, but before I add a sensitivity curve (I don't have one on the right stick) I will give my brain and hands some time to adjust to the left one.

I experimented a little, but I think I will stick with fwd/back thrust on Y and vertical on twist. Having the cruise presets on the right thumb means I can SC with only the right hand, and in normal space this also allows me to cruise as long as I want to, and take over with the left stick if I need to, either accelerating or decelerating around the set speed, or reset the speed preset and do it completely with the stick. This is how I land now, approach with cruise control, flick it off, do the final approach using the stick.

So far I am very pleased. Minor negative: The pinkie button on the OT is hard to reach reliably, I have to consciously "reach around" to press it. Might be because the stick is mounted a bit too high, but there is no way around that. I have thw two sticks, a wireless keyboard and a streamdeck (as button box) mounted on a sawhorse that I pull in front of my VR chair, and I cannot set it lower (it already touches my legs). I guess I can deal with that, for now the left pinkie switch is my UI focus, which isn't that performance critical.

 

[deleteduser]

I still need to think and sometimes overshoot back and forth on the landing pad, but before I add a sensitivity curve (I don't have one on the right stick) I will give my brain and hands some time to adjust to the left one.

I got a Winwing stick with no Z-Axis last week, and moving to some make-do rudder pedals I found myself 'hitting the brakes' over the landing pad and consequently spearing off to the left with half throttle. Muscle memory kicked in after a couple of landings keeping my feet away from the pedals, and I'm landing like a pro again.

 

[[VR] SpaceGhostC2C]

My gunfighter series you can disconnect the fwd/rvs thruster springs and there is a tension strap, 2 extra sets of heavy springs to help eliminate any side to side movement. The gunfighters are a big step up, but will improve your experiance and game

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Meh. My landings have gotten better, but I am still struggling and experimenting which DoF to map to which axis. Last night I noticed that having vertical on the twist of the Omni Throttle often results in unwanted forward or backward motion. I know it is a training and muscle memory thing, but I still have to think very hard which way to twist to descent onto the landing pad if I approach from a steep or awkward angle, or do the classic "approach upside down and flip the ship onto the pad" move. Which I love to do .

Mapping vertical thrust (and using the twist as a motorcycle-style throttle) seems to be very intuitive for dogfighting to tighten the turns - move the left stick in the same direction of the right to tighten the turn, move opposite to to a stall turn. But as soon as the landing pad hologram appears, my brain goes mush and I want to move the ship forward/back with the Y axis. I know there are landing overrides, but I dont like the idea of the game flipping my controls.

I don't know... I cannot decide, and I don't want to get used to a mapping that might be inferior or hurt my flight performance in the long run. I am bad enough as it is . Damn decision paralysis .

All I did the last few evenings so far was evac missions at the Maelstroms, and while this requires quick landings (which so far I managed to do despite my brain being what it is), it is mostly cruising. I think I will go with the second mapping for tonight, hop in my Mamba and go for some bounty hunting to force me to use the new controls for longer periods of time and see how I cope.

 

[[VR] SpaceGhostC2C]

I switched the right 4 way button on the throttle space combat grip to the optional directional switch and have that mapped to my vertical, down, port, starboard thrust, it's very easy to use this way

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

The whole idea of a HOSAS is to have the lateral and vertical thrusters on a fine-controllable analog axis. So...?

 

[[VR] SpaceGhostC2C]

The whole idea of a HOSAS is to have the lateral and vertical thrusters on a fine-controllable analog axis. So...?

I did it for better throttle control, fwd/reverse thrusters to control my flight distance against Interceptors,

I thought every1 switched because all the throttles are made for flight sims, planes, the only throttle I know that splits the fwd/rvs axis is the Thrustmaster TWCS and it won't hold up to the abuse.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Well I switched for full analog 6 DoF control .

 

[[VR] SpaceGhostC2C]

The whole idea of a HOSAS is to have the lateral and vertical thrusters on a fine-controllable analog axis. So...?

There is a a optional switch for the Combat grip, in with all the stuff that came with it, that turns the right thumb hat switch into a controllable anolg axis just like the base itself. It's multifunctional also, you click it and it turns into a 4 way hat switch with different mapable buttons

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

That mini stick is actually installed by default and can be toggled between mini stick and POV mode by pressing it. On my stick's firmware, POV mode is the default, but that can be switched. But especially for combat action, the mini stick is a bit too loose for my taste and not very comfortable to reach with my monkey thumbs. The TWCS throttle had an analog ministick on the back that I really liked, because it was positioned perfectly. I don't have that anymore though.

 

[[VR] SpaceGhostC2C]

That mini stick is actually installed by default and can be toggled between mini stick and POV mode by pressing it. On my stick's firmware, POV mode is the default, but that can be switched. But especially for combat action, the mini stick is a bit too loose for my taste and not very comfortable to reach with my monkey thumbs. The TWCS throttle had an analog ministick on the back that I really liked, because it was positioned perfectly. I don't have that anymore though.

Ya, I guess I forgot, i switched my RH stick to the hat switch. I haven't even played since they announced they were no longer going to support vr, but the love of flying and killing Interceptors has drawn me back.

o7

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

hey folks,

just wanted to give some sort of "final report" to this. I've done a few ten flight hours since the OT arrived, and I am very pleased. I have more or less memorized (well, muscle memorized) most of my button bindings, and I have to think less and less about the 6DoF movement.

In the end I stayed with the usual roll/pich/yaw on the right stick, and I settled on lateral on X, vertical on Y and fwd/reverse on the twist for the left stick. I also make heavy use of the preset thrust bindings (0/25/50/75/100), which I have on the right thumb 4-way (100% on the click).

I flew what feels like a million evac missions, so being quick on the approach and not botching the landing too much was important, and after a while it worked pretty well. I also went for some core mining, because that is where I learned the 6DoF movement in the first place - nothing like circling an asteroid .

My final setup for the left stick were heavy springs and pretty loose clutches. Together with using the preset thrust bindings for cruising, I can fly for hours on end without my wrist hurting. The twist has also by now loosened up a bit (and doesn't make the "squish" noise anymore), so it is quite comfortable to hold the twist in one position for a time.

I am also very pleased that I have more than enough buttons for bindings and needed almost no modifier bindings to have everything as logically set as my brain wants it.

I am very satisfied, 10/10, would buy again . For those interested, I published my bindings on EDRefCard.

Thanks for your help and input!

 

[krupps]

hey folks,

just wanted to give some sort of "final report" to this. I've done a few ten flight hours since the OT arrived, and I am very pleased. I have more or less memorized (well, muscle memorized) most of my button bindings, and I have to think less and less about the 6DoF movement.

In the end I stayed with the usual roll/pich/yaw on the right stick, and I settled on lateral on X, vertical on Y and fwd/reverse on the twist for the left stick. I also make heavy use of the preset thrust bindings (0/25/50/75/100), which I have on the right thumb 4-way (100% on the click).

I flew what feels like a million evac missions, so being quick on the approach and not botching the landing too much was important, and after a while it worked pretty well. I also went for some core mining, because that is where I learned the 6DoF movement in the first place - nothing like circling an asteroid .

My final setup for the left stick were heavy springs and pretty loose clutches. Together with using the preset thrust bindings for cruising, I can fly for hours on end without my wrist hurting. The twist has also by now loosened up a bit (and doesn't make the "squish" noise anymore), so it is quite comfortable to hold the twist in one position for a time.

I am also very pleased that I have more than enough buttons for bindings and needed almost no modifier bindings to have everything as logically set as my brain wants it.

I am very satisfied, 10/10, would buy again . For those interested, I published my bindings on EDRefCard.

Thanks for your help and input!

Moin Helmut, would you perhaps be so kind to update your uploaded profile with edrefcard? Sadly, they delete all profiles after some time. I am super interested to see your satisfying result. Do you have any macros for PIP management too? Thanks cmdr!

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Moin Helmut, would you perhaps be so kind to update your uploaded profile with edrefcard? Sadly, they delete all profiles after some time. I am super interested to see your satisfying result. Do you have any macros for PIP management too? Thanks cmdr!

Sure, here is my current binding. Just to reiterate, the basic structure is as follows:

• Pitch, roll and yaw on right stick
• Thrusters on left stick (X for lateral, Y for vertical, twist for forward/back)

• PIPs and UI movement on right hand center POV
• Fire groups on right hand top left POV up/down
• Ship functions (lights, NV, scoop, landing gear) on right hand top right POV
• Throttle presets on right hand thumb POV
• Primary and secondary fire on right hand trigger (first stage) and red button. These also cover "UI select" and "UI back".
• "Target ahead" and "highest threat" on right hand rapid trigger
• Galaxy and system map on right hand base buttons

• Targeting on left hand center POV - up/down for hostiles, left right for all targets
• subsystems on left hand top right POV up/down. Left/right on that POV does UI panel change
• Countermeasures on left hand top left POV
• Supercruise and hyperspace on left hand thumb POV up/down, center click is "next target on route"

If I had the center click of the right hand POV programmed to switch between normal operation and PIP macros I wouldn't confirm it here, because automation is not allowed .

Since I made the post you quoted, the analog stick on the OT went flaky, and I replaced the analog stick on both sticks with the POV set as I don't use the analog stick anyway.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

i use 2 sticks, i am no pvper and do it for fun, not for effectiveness... my only issue is my left stick is my old X55 stick after my throttle failed i bought an X56.

this is most definitely a right handed stick, so using in my left hand is less than idea.

but it is great having access to 2 twist axis (one i use to yaw and the other for throttle) and for me it is a fun way to fly.