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How can Frontier promote this?
- Thread starter Bitter Jeweler
- Start date
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Maybe a solution would be like the RCT3 cheat or a box to check between realistic or creative. Or if you know that a particular Coaster does not perform a task or doesn't go higher than a certain height, then just don't do it to your Coaster, but don't get mad if someone else uses these features on their coasters.
Please forgive me if I'm reading this the wrong way, but I see this as creative vs realistic.
Please forgive me if I'm reading this the wrong way, but I see this as creative vs realistic.
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I hope the restrictions is a joke. I hope also that Frontier made a joke if they need examples. Because nearly every <3<3<3<3<3<3<3 friction brake is gentle sloped down, so that the train can move just with gravity forward.
Example Variation one: Mix between magnetic brakes and friction brakes. Magnetic brakes act as a slow down, friction brake acting as a block brake. Also for shut downs, if the coaster software is having malfunctions
Example two: Here you see one of thousand time, how a friction brake is sloped down and act as a block system as all. The friction brake on the righ side, not the one in front of the picture.
Example 3: A trimm brake.
Do we really need Frontier teach some coaster Basics? o . o !? I thought we don´t need to.
There are a LOT older B&M coasters which are having ALL sloped down brakes and this is just ONE example out of endless examples.
My last hope is, that in Alpha 3, the coaster builder isn´t finished and they did that for some feature which aren´t implemented yet, but need this restrictions anywhere.
If not, it is simple. However NO RESTRICTIONS! It´s THAT easy!
Example Variation one: Mix between magnetic brakes and friction brakes. Magnetic brakes act as a slow down, friction brake acting as a block brake. Also for shut downs, if the coaster software is having malfunctions
Example two: Here you see one of thousand time, how a friction brake is sloped down and act as a block system as all. The friction brake on the righ side, not the one in front of the picture.
Example 3: A trimm brake.
Do we really need Frontier teach some coaster Basics? o . o !? I thought we don´t need to.
There are a LOT older B&M coasters which are having ALL sloped down brakes and this is just ONE example out of endless examples.
My last hope is, that in Alpha 3, the coaster builder isn´t finished and they did that for some feature which aren´t implemented yet, but need this restrictions anywhere.
If not, it is simple. However NO RESTRICTIONS! It´s THAT easy!
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Vampiro
Volunteer Moderator
Actually most coasters have curved brakes don't they?
Most brakes work with friction to slow down the train. Once the brakes release it's gravity itself that gently starts to move the train again bacause the brakes are places in a very slight angle. This is the most common way actualy [wink]
Most brakes work with friction to slow down the train. Once the brakes release it's gravity itself that gently starts to move the train again bacause the brakes are places in a very slight angle. This is the most common way actualy [wink]
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Yeah, the Intermediator immediately popped into my mind just from personal experience. Good research everyone with all the examples [up]
Vampiro
Volunteer Moderator
Some more curved chainlifts :
I would love to have those, also because then i would be able to "fake" the rotor-lifts for coasters such as the EuroSat :
[video=youtube;fSJxiiuYZo8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSJxiiuYZo8[/video]
[video=youtube;07nVcLLRQ-0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07nVcLLRQ-0[/video]
[video=youtube;Uxf1vJVh88o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Uxf1vJVh88o#t=96[/video]
[video=youtube;Uxf1vJVh88o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Uxf1vJVh88o#t=96[/video]
I would love to have those, also because then i would be able to "fake" the rotor-lifts for coasters such as the EuroSat :
[video=youtube;fSJxiiuYZo8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSJxiiuYZo8[/video]
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Sorry for going slightly off topic here but I'd like to point out something else that's in those examples above...
CATWALKS!!!
Okay... I've said my bit. [big grin]
CATWALKS!!!
Okay... I've said my bit. [big grin]
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I have to admit. When i read Zacs answer is was angry again. Some really bad words came into my mind, but sometimes it is good to count to ten. I never thought this thread would turn out as funny, maybe hilarious, as it did.
Doing realistic coaster is one of the key elements. I am in there.
But let me get it right. Frontier is playing the realism card for removing some creativity from the game in my opinion while heavily promoting and praysing the creativity of the same overall.
Correct?
If it is oh boy could we start dicussions over flats again, for example. And i have to admit i am a bit affraid what Frontier has in store for us for Beta. Also feeling a bit sorry for the building makers.
I think the AI and the coaster statistics of the game would be strong enough to cope with deathtraps. But then again i may be the only one who has this trust, though based on experience.
Doing realistic coaster is one of the key elements. I am in there.
But let me get it right. Frontier is playing the realism card for removing some creativity from the game in my opinion while heavily promoting and praysing the creativity of the same overall.
Correct?
If it is oh boy could we start dicussions over flats again, for example. And i have to admit i am a bit affraid what Frontier has in store for us for Beta. Also feeling a bit sorry for the building makers.
I think the AI and the coaster statistics of the game would be strong enough to cope with deathtraps. But then again i may be the only one who has this trust, though based on experience.
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Vampiro
Volunteer Moderator
It's indeed best to count to 10 in such situation's
But i agree to you, like i said yesterday i love realism, but i like to have realism in the most broad way.
In theory i can make a 250-loop 10G coaster in PC, there are no restrictions preventing me from doing so. And thats good! It's my own common sense that a coaster like that is not realistic and thus i will not build it because i want realistic ones. By that same token i would love to see the restrictions gone so i can build coasters to my own personal definition of realistic as i think a curved lifthill isn't too far stretched. Nor are brakes on a curve, because i have seen them in real life.
Like you said, this is realism VS creativity and the borders are a grey area. (And it seems like Frontier is painting with more black shades while we prefer more white shades
)I don't hope the discussion will start again on flats as we have far less controll over the looks of a flatride. I can build a coaster myself in a way i feel it's realistic. Flatrides have to come "out of the box" in a realistic way. (And thats 100% how i like it) [happy]
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I don't know coasters enough or the details but I assume the examples that have been provided are for all different types of track/coaster and so there is limitation engineering wise that cannot be solved for all of the designs to allow sloped &/or curved break blocks/magnetic breaks and really Frontier should allow it for all as all are possible?
The lift hill design makes sense and so I assume it means when it's launch of some type with a pulley system it has to be linear and basically all the others could be on a curve such as chain lifts?
Could someone just do a quick bullet point break down on types and what engineering limitations there are rather than what is or is not possible based on real life examples. I wish I knew more about coasters but I just want realistic coasters that I know I am placing based on real engineering limits and not design or cost limits that we currently have.
Bearing in mind I am sure a lot of coaster companies have designs for what we are asking for themselves but no one has the money or are not in a position for a new coaster at this time, although the new winged LSM coaster (I think it is that from reading) shows a lot more is possible.
Regards,
Adam
The lift hill design makes sense and so I assume it means when it's launch of some type with a pulley system it has to be linear and basically all the others could be on a curve such as chain lifts?
Could someone just do a quick bullet point break down on types and what engineering limitations there are rather than what is or is not possible based on real life examples. I wish I knew more about coasters but I just want realistic coasters that I know I am placing based on real engineering limits and not design or cost limits that we currently have.
Bearing in mind I am sure a lot of coaster companies have designs for what we are asking for themselves but no one has the money or are not in a position for a new coaster at this time, although the new winged LSM coaster (I think it is that from reading) shows a lot more is possible.
Regards,
Adam
Really don't want to discuss about flats. Not really sure if they would mind that there are some things which shouldn't be like that, but are acceptable.
I said it before. Looking at the new lift version and what Zac wrote i guess we will get, if we are lucky, another one or two breadcrumbs back. But not what we had.
I said it before. Looking at the new lift version and what Zac wrote i guess we will get, if we are lucky, another one or two breadcrumbs back. But not what we had.
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The problem is, and always has been even back to the RCT3 days, that Frontier seem to fixated on basing each of their coasters on one single coaster in real life - not using a lot of the same manufacturer/track design for a larger sample of examples. I'm no expert by any means on coaster manufacturers and types, but I don't see why we can't have it set up so that we
- a) select a track type
- b) select a compatible car type
- c) build the track with as much freedom as is technically possible for the combination of selected track and car.
All that instead of having a different coaster listed for each of the single real world examples that Frontier have chosen. It would make the menu look tidier and more organised too.
To give an example, the curved lift-hill restriction was removed on the Anubis hypercoaster. That uses the exact same B&M style track as most of the other coasters in the game. Surely if it's possible on that one, then it should be possible on the others too? [weird]
Now I'm not saying that it is necessarily possible for a B&M track like that to have a curved chain-lift, but my point is that if they are able to allow it on one of the B&M coasters, surely it should be exactly the same on the others? It voids any "realism" excuse for the other types that use the exact same track.
- a) select a track type
- b) select a compatible car type
- c) build the track with as much freedom as is technically possible for the combination of selected track and car.
All that instead of having a different coaster listed for each of the single real world examples that Frontier have chosen. It would make the menu look tidier and more organised too.
To give an example, the curved lift-hill restriction was removed on the Anubis hypercoaster. That uses the exact same B&M style track as most of the other coasters in the game. Surely if it's possible on that one, then it should be possible on the others too? [weird]
Now I'm not saying that it is necessarily possible for a B&M track like that to have a curved chain-lift, but my point is that if they are able to allow it on one of the B&M coasters, surely it should be exactly the same on the others? It voids any "realism" excuse for the other types that use the exact same track.
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Vampiro
Volunteer Moderator
This is an idea i really like [happy]
I am sorry, but Zac already answered:
And they never said they wouldn't remove the curved lift from the Giovanola Coaster again if the Schwarzkopf Coaster Type is in.
And they never said they wouldn't remove the curved lift from the Giovanola Coaster again if the Schwarzkopf Coaster Type is in.
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To be honest if there is a technical limitation which means that a B&M-style (or Giovanola) can't have a curved chain lift then I would be fine with that restriction, as long as there is no restriction where it would be technically possible e.g. a Schwarzkopf track. What I'm not okay with is the inconsistency. Why can we have a curved chain lift on one coaster (e.g. the Anubis), but not another when the track is exactly the same (the Werewolf)?
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Without distracting too much, but Schwarzkopf will be the most interesting.
Lift hill - straight, curved, with chain, with friction wheels
Booster Friction wheels all along the track even through loopings. (Katapult)
Looping - with box support, without box structure.
Track - two point, three point, box structure
straight station, curved station
etc.
I guess we have to accept that Frontier doesn't want it to be in. As some people from the forum pointed out. It is their game.
Lift hill - straight, curved, with chain, with friction wheels
Booster Friction wheels all along the track even through loopings. (Katapult)
Looping - with box support, without box structure.
Track - two point, three point, box structure
straight station, curved station
etc.
I guess we have to accept that Frontier doesn't want it to be in. As some people from the forum pointed out. It is their game.
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Vampiro
Volunteer Moderator
In the end it's their game ofcourse, and they will make it the way they think the most people will like it and generate the highest sales. As much as (most of them) are fans like us, they are also a company thats needs profit [happy]
All we can do is give advice on what -we- think, and hopefully we represent the avarage PC buyer. And i can't say they don't listen to us. They already removed the height restrictions. And the second we delivered some proof of existing coasters doing stuff they restricted, they removed the restrictions.
So it just seems like Frontier is assuming that the general public wants coasters in the most realistic way possible. (and to be honest, haven't we been requesting that for a long long time? [wink])
The discussion right now does not seem to be about what we want or what Frontier wants, but about what is possible in real life... Bret even asked us to provide screenshots and stuff.
Instead of complaining about Frontiers decission, we might better focus on proving what is possible. When we prove some things are possible, im pretty sure Frontier will be glad to make possible it in the game as well. (As we have seen since the last update, and hopefully some more in the near future)
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That is actually the funny part to me. Others might think different.
Extra work which could be used for other, maybe more important things. Make it free and everyone can do tracks they want. Just limited by the AI, Physics and the Coaster statistics.
As the old saying goes: "Why make it easy when you can do it complicated."
But we are moving in circles.
Extra work which could be used for other, maybe more important things. Make it free and everyone can do tracks they want. Just limited by the AI, Physics and the Coaster statistics.
As the old saying goes: "Why make it easy when you can do it complicated."
But we are moving in circles.
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