Powerplay How is Powerplay not open only yet?

[Rubbernuke]

Don't even need to "cheat", remember the game release farce?
Remember we all had to "hack" a game file to enable uPnP so we could actually see other players because Frontier had it turned off?

Did you know all routers have a toggle to allow/disallow uPnP - which Fronter has no control or say over. So people can just turn off one networking feature (which some security experts highly suggest by the way) and boom, 99% of the player base is gone while playing Open mode. And they've made their home networks safer at the same time, so bonus.

And that isn't "cheating" as it is a legitimate network option. So while you're going to scream blue murder over it, Frontier should have used another option not something that breaks if we untick a single box which we are allowed to untick.

And lots of people know all about it by the way, plus word would quickly spread as well for those who don't yet know.

And really in the end (as I said before) it comes down to it working for the majority, enough so that players can effect each other and regularly set up hotspots of action. It won't be as easy as flicking a switch certainly.

But again it comes down to what FD want Powerplay 'for'- who is it trying to attract and cater for? FD want ED to grow, it can't do that unless all of it is fully realised and has a place.

 

[Tarkus Venius]

Turretboating would be stamped out via using the new CZ mechanics and removing heal beams. AFK boats work in PG because you have loads of weak enemies continually coming in and your shields being topped up by your wing. Break those links and it ceases to work.

Its debatable if these CZs would use the new style NPCs though, since Powerplay involves killing loads of them. In my head its 50/50.

The question of port fiddling comes down to would enough people do it- i.e. cheat? Some people get this regardless because of problems. If the majority had Open as intended and regularly saw opponents (even more so with other changes) then thats really job done, because then players have become the NPC opposition lacking so far.

Saying that, having a more robust and interesting PvE layer that makes NPCs much more challenging is a better goal; the problem is that requires a lot of change- probably much more than going Open.

In the end its up to FD to decide how much work goes in- my bet is more anti 5C, and rebalancing the bonuses and rewards (and modules being moved).

None of that fixes the haul bots or some guy who scripts his bot to continually relog while in solo with a trainer active (I assume a cheater is willing to go full-bore).

Sure you can turn off uPNP, but there’s also nothing keeping frontier from kicking you off with an error if you have that disabled on your router while pledged. It’s not hard to check. We could set some ground rules. You can turn off blocking for pledged players. You could prevent most casual cheating on the back end if they actually code for it.

We could make this game more fun than grinding against bots and killing thousands of helpless NPCs.

 

[Jockey79]

And really in the end (as I said before) it comes down to it working for the majority, enough so that players can effect each other and regularly set up hotspots of action. It won't be as easy as flicking a switch certainly.

But again it comes down to what FD want Powerplay 'for'- who is it trying to attract and cater for? FD want ED to grow, it can't do that unless all of it is fully realised and has a place.

Look, at the end of the day, you're always going to want Open Only content. It isn't the game you bought, which begs the question why be here?
But Frontier brought this long-standing argument on themselves. All through Kickstarter they all games modes would have access to all content, then the moment the game went live they ran the first to Elite competition (plus other competitions) with the stipulation of Open Only to qualify.

So I don't blame you for asking (or even banging on about it, for how many years now?), I blame Frontier for not being consistent right at the start.
And I do believe a good size chunk of the player base would use some option to gain an advantage in Power Play. Because people are lazy and people like to win with the least amount of effort. So even if it is not unticking a box in their router, then there are several other easy ways (which are clear cheating and I do not conde them) to filter your own network traffic.

I mean look at some of the cheating we've already had. People buying and reselling modules, mode swapping for missions, gaining huge bounties and have friends farm you...... and so on. And you don't think people would fiddle open mode to win at PP?

 

[ebbrell]

For me this is defo yes please.
If I had choice I would make PG and solo influences BGS less as well.

I'm always in open, its great.
Game is best in open we need reason to be in open

 

[Jockey79]

Sure you can turn off uPNP, but there’s also nothing keeping frontier from kicking you off with an error if you have that disabled on your router while pledged. It’s not hard to check. We could set some ground rules. You can turn off blocking for pledged players. You could prevent most casual cheating on the back end if they actually code for it.

Frontier has no say over whether we have uPnP on or off. And if they kept cutting people off for having a single, legitimate, optional network setting turned off they could get into trouble for it.

Plus let's face it, they took the lazy way out for networking. So they are not going to spend time or money messing with it when the bulk of the community either doesn't want locked content or doesn't care because they don't play that content. I mean they've ignored Power Play for how long now? So they are not going to freak out over people turning that option off.

 

[Jockey79]

For me this is defo yes please.
If I had choice I would make PG and solo influences BGS less as well.

I'm always in open, its great.
Game is best in open we need reason to be in open

If open suits you, then great. Play how you want. But the rest of us are not so keen thanks, Private Groups are best and there is no reason I'd ever want to play in Open.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Look, at the end of the day, you're always going to want Open Only content. It isn't the game you bought, which begs the question why be here?
But Frontier brought this long-standing argument on themselves. All through Kickstarter they all games modes would have access to all content, then the moment the game went live they ran the first to Elite competition (plus other competitions) with the stipulation of Open Only to qualify.

So I don't blame you for asking (or even banging on about it, for how many years now?), I blame Frontier for not being consistent right at the start.
And I do believe a good size chunk of the player base would use some option to gain an advantage in Power Play. Because people are lazy and people like to win with the least amount of effort. So even if it is not unticking a box in their router, then there are several other easy ways (which are clear cheating and I do not conde them) to filter your own network traffic.

I mean look at some of the cheating we've already had. People buying and reselling modules, mode swapping for missions, gaining huge bounties and have friends farm you...... and so on. And you don't think people would fiddle open mode to win at PP?

You are actually wrong there- My time in Open Powerplay has been fantastic, but at the same time I don't want all of ED that way. I started out in Solo in Powerplay, and over time went into Open because it offered more challenge in the flying of ships- FD are right to examine all possibilities and not be held by the past if the benefits outweigh the problems. Only one of my ideas has an Open Only portion too- essentially taking what Powerplay is today (paper thin PvE wise) and adding a PvP element thats more integral (even if its not bulletproof), while creating a whole new Solo and PG focussed side that dovetails but not crosses over. Why? Its to sidestep NPC drawbacks at those scales. Is that possible via PvE? It is, but it all rests on how much FD want to change. If its ground up then fantastic, but if its not the status quo can't really stand for the reasons I outlined in earlier posts.

If you think I've been 'banging on' about Open so much, count how many ideas actually have that as a central conceit.

 

[Rubbernuke]

None of that fixes the haul bots or some guy who scripts his bot to continually relog while in solo with a trainer active (I assume a cheater is willing to go full-bore).

Sure you can turn off uPNP, but there’s also nothing keeping frontier from kicking you off with an error if you have that disabled on your router while pledged. It’s not hard to check. We could set some ground rules. You can turn off blocking for pledged players. You could prevent most casual cheating on the back end if they actually code for it.

We could make this game more fun than grinding against bots and killing thousands of helpless NPCs.

Did I say that fixes hauling bots? No. AFK turretboating is not the same.

 

[Brrokk]

If open suits you, then great. Play how you want. ...

This!!!

Blaze your own trail.

Do what you want in the game you paid for.

All the ED control-freakery is getting tiresome. I suggest that anyone who wants control over any of my game options should enter a 400m sprint event on a 300m pier.

 

[Rubbernuke]

This!!!

Blaze your own trail.

Do what you want in the game you paid for.

All the ED control-freakery is getting tiresome. I suggest that anyone who wants control over any of my game options should enter a 400m sprint event on a 300m pier.

But this is the problem: the most efficient mode is solo for hauling (since there is no NPC real opposition) and PG for combat CGs and UM. You can't make a competitive feature if two out of three modes offers an advantage over the other.

And leads us back to making players like NPCs to allow for hauling to be interrupted, or making the PvE of hauling much more difficult and removing AFK turretboating in PG.

One approach is to separate out tasks so they don't cross modes, the other is to rewrite substantial parts of PvE.

 

[Jockey79]

.... count how many ideas actually have that as a central conceit.

It's every idea from every PvP'er since Kickstarter.
So it's nothing new.

And of course, when some PvE changes were suggested, they get shouted down by PvP'ers.
Or we get the whole "you don't know the problem" spiel, as you've done to me. We know the problem, you just don't like a solution that isn't blasting unarmed trade ships.

In principle, I'm a supporter of the 3-mode concept. Unfortunately, these modes are not at all balanced against each other and if I were a PvPer, I would certainly be pretty miffed. Thankfully PVP is not my thing, but I can understand the desire to find a solution. Unfortunately, Open Only something is an illusion with the given network structure. But who knows, maybe we'll see this nonsense in action soon. I'm already looking forward to it. If all arguments don't help, it will have to be done the hard way.

The mode system is balanced because it is the same game, for everyone.
Adding perks just because someone chooses to play with other people isn't balanced in any way.
Plus there are people who cannot play open, so why should they be penalised for not playing open?

 

[Kira Mikamy]

so conclusion is: if you play powerplay you want it open only, but it cant be open only because people who DONT play powerplay dont want it to be open only.

wow

 

[Jockey79]

Depends on how you define 'balanced'. You clearly don't have the same options in all modes. Just theoretically at best, but not practically. Just because you can trade in Open doesn't mean it's the same as in Solo. That's not exactly my idea of balance. All what is same is sharing the same galaxy. But that pretty much is it. I wouldn't even call it the same reality as the ingame 'reality' is altered in many ways in the different modes.

When you trade playing Open, you have wings open to you, as well as wing vouchers.

So I could argue that is a buff over Solo, as Solo players will earn money at a slower rate to a wing of 2 trade and 2 combat ships with their bonus vouchers. Oh, and the traders would get combat rank ups from those vouchers, where Solo players are not.

So Open already has options Solo doesn't.

 

[Jockey79]

so conclusion is: if you play powerplay you want it open only, but it cant be open only because people who DONT play powerplay dont want it to be open only.

wow

assuming much?

plenty of folks who pp don't want it open only. or you just ignoring the posts from them?

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

assuming much?

plenty of folks who pp don't want it open only. or you just ignoring the posts from them?

Somehow, you're both right.

 

[Jockey79]

This sounds very 'theoretically' to me. I strongly doubt you would survive very long in a shieldless Cutter in a trade CG, no matter the wing you got. If you dare, that is.

Not everyone who plays Solo flies shieldless cutters.
And there are plenty of tricks to use with a properly setup cutter, so the point still stands. You earn faster in a wing, which Solo players cannot do.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The people who actually play powerplay week after week want it open-only.

I dare to suggest though that there is a large demographic who would play powerplay if it was more inclusive than exclusive.

 

[Jockey79]

Somehow, you're both right.

How do you figure that?

They made a false statement that all people who play power play want it open only - despite the fact those of us saying no do actually play it. So they are categorically wrong.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

In principle, I'm a supporter of the 3-mode concept. Unfortunately, these modes are not at all balanced against each other and if I were a PvPer, I would certainly be pretty miffed. Thankfully PVP is not my thing, but I can understand the desire to find a solution. Unfortunately, Open Only something is an illusion with the given network structure. But who knows, maybe we'll see this nonsense in action soon. I'm already looking forward to it. If all arguments don't help, it will have to be done the hard way.

Well Frontier created a 3 mode system. Then they created a feature for which one mode is "hard mode" and the other 2 are variations of "easy mode". There are a plethora of ways they could deal with this. But after years no-one really has much faith in them devoting sufficient dev time to it in a mode-sensitive way. So we have open-only as the option on the (forum at least) table that, even with mitigations for blocking, etc., still seems vaguely within the bounds of an amount of work FDev might consider devoting to balancing/fixing PP. To me, open is the way to do PP, but if FDev said "well, you see it that way and want open-only... blah..., so we're going to do it this way instead", then if it was fair I might just have to accept it. Because FDev made a 3 mode game and are committed to making features work seamlessly across modes. But that's not what they did.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

How do you figure that?

They made a false statement that all people who play power play want it open only - despite the fact those of us saying no do actually play it. So they are categorically wrong.

They didn't say all. They made a generalisation. It's the best you'll get out of me. Both your statements ring true. Call it subjective to me if necessary.