The craved solo debuff spotted, thank you. Forgot that, will use in these threads from now on ;-)))
Powerplay How is Powerplay not open only yet?
Don't forget to write that solo is perfect for hauling and botting during hauling too then!
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Here's the actual quote, as it applies to Powerplay:Again with the usual broken record, and no, I am not surprised, I am just trying to make you understand that the "all modes are equals" is simply some false thing people against anything Open Only usually repeat continuously.
I agree - the modes are not equal - however they remain valid ways to play the game. The game modes offer players a choice as to how many players to play among, on a session-by-session basis.
All players affect game features, regardless of game mode, and their completed actions count equally towards them - that is fair in a game where PvP is not a requirement of any main game feature. Those seeking a feature that only players in Open affect did not buy a game that suits their preference.
No-one is forced to do anything - that they choose to remains their choice, no matter how unpalatable (to them) the options may be.
No-one except Frontier can say for certain how the game will be going forward - so claims that "The rest of the game will stay as it is" may be inaccurate.
July 17, 2015. Will just say that.
And again: we all know what the game is, we are talking about what the game could be.
But HEY.
So you admit that, if I would win for my Power at all costs, I should go to private to be most efficient.
Consequentially I just should go to pvt and deal with it if I want to win.
Do you think this is fair?
Just let people have SOMETHING to play the game in a different way. Denying things to people because you do not like them is being bigots. Stop being bigots with us, please.
And again: we all know what the game is, we are talking about what the game could be.
But HEY.
So... why did you keep on telling that all the modes should be equally valid when they are not equal?
So you admit that, if I would win for my Power at all costs, I should go to private to be most efficient.
Consequentially I just should go to pvt and deal with it if I want to win.
Do you think this is fair?
But it's a necessary choice if a group want to win anyway. At least admit that. Because this thing of the "personal choice but I don't wanna talk about the consequences" is why I keep saying you are tremendously biased.
Just like I imagined: is out of fear that the game could become open only in more aspects that you keep roaming these threads about open only powerplay without actually knowing powerplay. Ok let's try this way: I BELIEVE that even if powerplay will ever become open only the rest of the game will stay the same. And hey: I believe it should. Strange, right?
Just let people have SOMETHING to play the game in a different way. Denying things to people because you do not like them is being bigots. Stop being bigots with us, please.
Please stay around, we need the comic sidekick.You could have gotten rid of me long ago - if it weren't for your arrogant attitudes.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed - consistent with the game design published in 2012 and also the latest advertising, i.e.:July 17, 2015. Will just say that.
https://www.elitedangerous.com/ said:
Everyone has ideas about how the game could be, e.g. I'd like to see the addition of an Open-PvE game mode to the launcher options that shares the currently tri-modal galaxy.And again: we all know what the game is, we are talking about what the game could be.
.... because PvP is an optional extra for those who wish to engage in it whereas every player, regardless of game mode, enjoys the privilege of affecting the game.
That's the game we all bought, even if some players don't accept it the way it is.
It's each player's choice as to how to play the game. I understand that those who want to win "at all costs" may have few choices as to how to achieve that aim, noting that they can't force any other player to play the game the way they want them to.
Personally I play games to have fun. I do not think it would be fair to force players who bought a game with optional PvP to require to engage in it to continue to affect existing game features that don't currently require any player to engage in PvP.
We are discussing the consequences of Frontiers decision to make PvP an optional extra in this game - some of those who have bought the game don't agree with Frontier's stance and have made their displeasure known for years now. I have no interest in engaging in, or being engaged in, itsi-PvP - I find it to be a tedious and predictable waste of limited game time - more succinctly, I don't find it to be "fun". If that makes me biased, so be it - just as proponents of PvP-gating game features are biased in favour of PvP.
My stance is simple: I don't agree that any existing pan-modal game feature(s) should be retrospectively PvP-gated to Open.Just like I imagined: is out of fear that the game could become open only in more aspects that you keep roaming these threads about open only powerplay without actually knowing powerplay. Ok let's try this way: I BELIEVE that even if powerplay will ever become open only the rest of the game will stay the same. And hey: I believe it should. Strange, right?
The only game feature that Frontier chose to implement as PvP only is CQC.
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Had the very same idea, called it "Open Friendly mode" when I proposed the "Two Galaxys" model. Would have anything against that of course.
And losing because you should go in private as the others do is no fun, for example.
Nope, we are discussing introducing something that would NOT make it optional just for THAT optional thing (Powerplay in this particular case).
See? It's a matter of principle for you.
As it is simple what you are doing: going here repeating the same things apparently hoping that the discussion will die by itself, as it happened with every other thread about it: killed by boredom and repetitiveness.
Again with "what the game is". Yeah, I understand it's the only way you feel you have to make this somehow stop, but you are basically saying nothing by reminding people what the game is. If we are here right here right now is to ask something new (or if you want something old and abandoned "renewed".
And it would not affect you or other people, that's what even funnier.
But still you are here, trying to flood the argument. What's the point in repeating that "FDEV DID THE GAME THIS WAY AND IN 2015 ZAC TOLD THIS" again and again and again.
The only new things I saw you writing are basically that all modes ARE NOT equal but they should have the same effects.
Which can be ok with other game mechanics, but in Powerplay proved to be a great flaw and exploit.
So it's good to see how in your way you finally agreed with me. I even believe that you understand that what I am doing is not what other people you discussed in the past in the forums were trying to do, but you are still in total oppositive mode.
Right now you are just denying people a way to play the game because you don't like that. Simple as that.
Is it really a right thing to do? Why should you even care.
ahahah a new account from 1 day. We're at the end of our rope just to ruin the discussion, now we create fake accounts or get people from here and there to intervene.
That was totally coincidence, and I am hurt, deeply hurt, that you make such terrible terrible assumptions. Not.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Frontier have been clear that they won't split the galaxy.
Maybe for those who enjoy PvP - however they can't force other players to play with them.
We are discussing a proposed change to the game that would affect all players - it should come as no surprise that not all players will agree with the proposal. I don't agree with the proposal.
The debate on whether, or not, existing game features should be made Open only has been ongoing for years - those making Open only proposals are just as guilty of "repeating the same things" in the hope of change, just as those who oppose the proposals repeat the same arguments. If there's a desire for a proposal to be unopposed then an open forum probably isn't the best place for that.
Again: we know what the Galaxy is. But it was just an example. Even if I think it would be ideal I understand the many reasons why this is not possible.
But we are still talking people forcing other people to do things their way to succeed. When you could offer something to both sides and let people play as they want having something to measure themselves with it. It's like that you consider "PvP oriented" guys a 2nd class of players. They are customers as you are and they should have some way to measure their efforts.
A change to Powerplay only actually. One single game mechanic. Again: I BELIEVE the rest of the game should stay as it is.
There's a great deal of difference between discussing rationally about what a game mechanic designed to be Open Only in the Galaxy could bring to the game and trying to deny it with all your might by flooding threads. Right now your arguments are basically "the game's always been this way" and "all modes are equal but HEY no, changed my mind, game should stay unfair as it is for the open play only players".
You see: I am trying. Making Powerplay as less appealing for people not involved in my way to play the game. I don't want people to go in Open to be seal-clubbed, not my thing.
I am just trying to make people understand that there's a different approach to the game, and that different approach in particular has no way to be measured by game mechanics.
Now you can start with the usual thing you do: quoting every single bit of the thread, telling the same things again and again. But right now I am proposing something different that would not affect players if they don't want to be involved, they would note lose nothing (you remember? modules to tech-brokers etc).
But right now you just want to force people to pvt/solo to win, so... who's the bad guy now?
Well, I talked about what the game could be if the thread suggestion was implemented. Then we backed away because what it would be is: wrecked.July 17, 2015. Will just say that.
And again: we all know what the game is, we are talking about what the game could be.
But HEY.
So... why did you keep on telling that all the modes should be equally valid when they are not equal?
So you admit that, if I would win for my Power at all costs, I should go to private to be most efficient.
Consequentially I just should go to pvt and deal with it if I want to win.
Do you think this is fair?
But it's a necessary choice if a group want to win anyway. At least admit that. Because this thing of the "personal choice but I don't wanna talk about the consequences" is why I keep saying you are tremendously biased.
Just like I imagined: is out of fear that the game could become open only in more aspects that you keep roaming these threads about open only powerplay without actually knowing powerplay. Ok let's try this way: I BELIEVE that even if powerplay will ever become open only the rest of the game will stay the same. And hey: I believe it should. Strange, right?
Just let people have SOMETHING to play the game in a different way. Denying things to people because you do not like them is being bigots. Stop being bigots with us, please.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed players who bought the game with the desire to engage in PvP are customers - just as those who bought the game with no desire to engage in PvP are customers. All players bought the game on the same basis - and that game does not allow players to force other players to play the game the way they want them to.
That's what one player wants, not what all proponents of PvP-gating game features would be content with, as seen by a significant number of responses in the Powerplay Flash Topic threads.
There's the simple fact that not all players agree that retrospectively PvP-gating an existing game feature to Open would constitute an improvement to the game. I understand that the game may seem unfair to players seeking an Open only feature, however I don't share the opinion that existing pan-modal content should be retrospectively PvP-gated (i.e. effectively removing it from players who choose not to, or can't, play in Open) to create one.
PvP-gating Powerplay to Open only would affect players who choose to engage in Powerplay in Solo and Private Groups: they would lose the ability to affect Powerplay from their chosen game mode. No-one is forced to play the game in any way. They may choose to, but that's their choice.You see: I am trying. Making Powerplay as less appealing for people not involved in my way to play the game. I don't want people to go in Open to be seal-clubbed, not my thing.
I am just trying to make people understand that there's a different approach to the game, and that different approach in particular has no way to be measured by game mechanics.
Now you can start with the usual thing you do: quoting every single bit of the thread, telling the same things again and again. But right now I am proposing something different that would not affect players if they don't want to be involved, they would note lose nothing (you remember? modules to tech-brokers etc).
But right now you just want to force people to pvt/solo to win, so... who's the bad guy now?
In my opinion Powerplay could be improved for all players without resorting to either PvP-gating it, or to the application of a penalty on the effects on Powerplay from players in Solo and Private Groups (especially has such a penalty is quite similar to Frontier's shadowban punishment for players who break the game's rules).
So this is a matter of principle. Who cares what the others want. We're talking about Open Only (and possibly different) Powerplay in here, not about your Open vs PG/Solo feud. Nobody cares about that.
Yup, let's add another thing to the game! We will call it "Rewop Play", it will be exactly the same but in Open Only. Come on. Even you know that this is something requested by a big part of people involved in that kind of gameplay. You're just being provocative as you are when you propose an Open Only Bubble just reaaaaally reaaally far away. You hide a punitive approach in very bad proposals and you expect for people to not bite it.
This "PvP-gating" thing is all in your mind: Open Only is different than PvP-only. You could say it's PvP occasionally. PvP only would be exploited very easily and exploitation is not what Powerplay needs.
But you are here to talk just about "Open Only" and not "Open Only Powerplay", and it is quite clear considering that, what you write, doesn't make any sense for anybody at least competent with Powerplay.
Because at this point it's a feud to you, some feud honestly I am not interetsed in.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Those seeking to PvP-gate content don't seem to be concerned about how such a change would adversely affect other players....
The permit locked bubble proposal contained no statement as to its distance from the existing bubble.
Restricting the effects of players on a game feature to those who play in Open would mean that anyone who wanted to affect the feature would require to play among those who may engage them in PvP. A PvP-gate as it applies to a game feature need not involve a requirement that the player initiates PvP, just that they can be attacked by other players when engaged in the feature.
While some of those who engage in Powerplay want it to be PvP-gated, the same cannot be said of all players who engage in Powerplay.
The "feud" has been ongoing since the game design was published - when some of the first backers realised that players could affect game features without playing with them.Because at this point it's a feud to you, some feud honestly I am not interetsed in.
Still a feud.
And yeah: some players would be affected.As (for example) players that would avoid explorations entirely have to fly very far to unlock engineers. The fact in here is just that you do not want anything Open Only period.
And this is consequential to the forum feud you've been running for so long.
Boring.
Let's talk about game mechanics which is more interesting.
There's a good part of player base that would like to have "something" open only to be able to make their gamestyle relevant and have fun their way.
But you don't want to make them happy.
Again: I don not want to bring people in Open when they are clearly not interested into.
But YOU want to force people to deal with private and solo grindy gameplay.
Let's start from this statement: who is really forcing people into something?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
No-one is forced to do anything in the game. If players set themselves particular goals then it follows that they need to engage in the game features that Frontier have provided to achieve their aim. If those goals involve other players then they are subject to the possibility that other players may not choose to play with them, due to Frontier's decision to offer all players a choice of who to play among.Let's start from this statement: who is really forcing people into something?
Semantics. And: again with what the game is like right now!
Come on we all know how it is. Now: is it fair? Does it really values every game mode as equals?
The answer as you said before is a big no. So: should there be at least one little game mechanic for Open Only players?
I believe it should. You believe we should just deal with it and keep playing like we are. Your opinion. A big one as far as I am concerned, because the core mechanics of the game would stay unaffected by it but hey, apparently your feud is much more important than anything else.
As I said before: forum PvP!
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning is fundamental to communication....
It's not fair to those who want to force anyone opposing them to be available to engage in PvP - noting that no game features (except CQC) require any player to make themselves available for PvP. It's fair in that players in all game modes and on all game platforms affect game features in the shared galaxy.
If such a feature was added to the game that had zero effect on players in Solo and Private Groups (as they could not affect it from their chosen game mode), i.e. had no effect on the BGS, CGs, etc., I'd have no complaint.
We all have opinions. Noting that while we may share some opinions there's no guarantee that we'll agree on all of them.
Quite.As I said before: forum PvP!
So... no more 15% discount? I'm okay with that eh.