How long would a ship need to remain persistent to prevent a menu log from being abused?

Incidentally, is there actually any evidence that menu-logging (rather than combat-logging) is frequently being abused in PvP encounters?

Some have reported opponents "disappearing". How do you know they didn't combat-log?

When someone uses the timer, his ship takes damage until it dissapears, while when the task is killed his ship stops taking damage as much as you shoot it. And yes it is abused.
 
In every post of yours you keep trying to derail the discussion. Ganking or noob splatting is not the subject.

You raised your subjective opinion of e-honor as being somehow important, don't get all sniffy when people reply exactly on topic to what you said.

Ofc its low, you like it the way it is because basically its an to gankers, ignoring the fact its also an to any danger the galaxy had to offer.

I was writing high wake escapology guides in 2015, if I ever indulge in PVP with gankers or anyone else its solely because I choose to do it.
 
A few weeks ago I was in an intense fight when my son woke up. I had no choice but to message him “gotta go, son woke up, go ahead and kill me” as I set my throttle to zero and went to get my son. I came back about 20 mins later expecting to see a rebuy screen but instead my ship was still there and a GG was on the comms. Very honorable Cmdr. I was not about to combat log.

That's fine.

The point, however, is that the menu-timer isn't only there to regulate PvP encounters.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen the menu-timer when I've been involved in any kind of PvP.

I have, however, seen it often enough, in other circumstances, to know that there's no way I'm going to sit around and wait for a 3-minute timer to count down before I log into a different mode or quit the game for the night.

If FDev change the game so the menu-timer only applies to PvP, they can make it 3 minutes, 10 minutes, so it resets upon taking damage or just flat-out make it so you can't quit at all and I wouldn't mind.

As the game currently is, this is a narrow-minded suggestion which only caters to one demographic at the expense of all others - a demographic that pretty-much has the run of the game in most respects already.
 
As has been pointed out up-thread (and is the reason why it remains in Dangerous Discussion rather than in PVP) the vast majority of times logging out using the menu timer occurs is just in the course of general play...NOT in a PvP situation...
That said, if you're so offended by the thought of someone you're in Combat with logging out midway through an encounter without any comms (because presumably you'd have to be a real d*ck to resent someone saying "GTG - RL -sorry!" part-way through an encounter) just play Elite with/against better people or at least initiate better encounters...
Your complaint seems to be I'm in an encounter with a random anonymous person on the internet and who I don't know/have anything in common with...I've initiated an encounter they DON'T welcome...and they've left without letting me have my fun..."

Firstly i dont buy it what so ever that the majority of players use of the 15 second timer is actual real life issues, not for a second. Also it isnt just PVP, its PVE when people openly logout if they are about to die.

Secondly; it may or may not be insinuated but i am not a ganker, i barely never PVP and the only times i have is when someone has pulled me out. I have been combat logged on when it has not gone their way. Getting pulled out in Open only happens to me if i screw up or let them, flying with awareness makes being ganked almost impossible.

I dont have a complaint, i just have an opinion as a minority in regards to this particular belief. I paid for the game so as unpopular as my opinion on this subject may be; i am entitled to express it.

This game, or at least the vocal majority on the forum indicates; is mainly played by people who do not like a challenge, and do not like a threat. A lot of people want to play this game to build up their own little empire and grind/collect stuff. You know what? That's fine! Under usual circumstances i would say "This isn't the game for me" and just play something else. The difference between us is i like a challenge, i want interdiction to be an "oh crap" moment not a "oh i best wiggle the stick a bit until he goes away" because lets be honest, who's losing interdiction's in PVE anymore?!? Anyone who is being honest will admit that their is no danger in the game unless you make it for yourself, travelling isn't dangerous and combat isn't hard to escape... There is also no loss, you lose something and a mild inconvenience pops up in the form of buy back. People don't like this, this is prevalent in the fact that the only 1 sense of loss this game has to offer (Crew) is whinged about insistently.

The thing that bothers me is that FD catered to this majority, with Solo and PVE mode (Private Groups). So why cant Open be dangerous? People know what they are getting into and choose that 1/3rd of the available modes, why should they have a "get out of any death" card? No one on the Eve-Online forum is whinging that when they log out prematurely or force close the game they are floating in space for 6 minutes, given how easy this game is why is it such an issue here? Well i know why i mentioned it above.

I like a challenge, i want a challenge and i know im not going to get a challenge but the money i spent on the game entitles me to put that preference forward, luckily the game has other saving graces that keeps me interested.

PVP in this game is a tacked on extra, its not PVP its a duelling mode, only consensual PVP works which removes the threat and the danger from the galaxy and that is just a fact; people just don't want to admit it so they hide the fact that its what they want behind thinly veiled excuses for features like "My pan is overflowing in the kitchen".

Im just going to leave the topic here, as like i said; i am in a minority in regards to thinking the ability to escape any consequence in a game that is already consequence free and easily avoidable is ridiculous.

Those are my reasons, take them or leave them :).
 
Well, there's your problem, right there.

Its not mate, and its not particularly far fetched. We usually agree on most things but i have to be honest; anyone who thinks the majority of people are logging out of losing fights because the house is burning down more than avoiding imminent loss is being very naive.

-EDIT- Just went back on what i said! THIS is my last post!
 
Its not about whats vitally important to someone or nothing important to someone else. Its about what is fair and right. Its not something new, other games deal with the matter for years with success. Is it so difficult to understant?

I said a million times, about human interactions, allthough personally i would apply the same rules in all modes. Logging out when "in danger" should have more consequences than only 15 seconds.

But you've failed to explain why it's "fair and right" for an out-of-game event to have in-game consequences. There's a theory that our own universe is a simulation. If I'm crossing a busy road when one of the aliens running the simulation has to deal with another event, is it "fair and right" that I'm suddenly paralysed and then get hit by a truck?
 
Its not mate, and its not particularly far fetched. We usually agree on most things but i have to be honest; anyone who thinks the majority of people are logging out of losing fights because the house is burning down more than avoiding imminent loss is being very naive.

-EDIT- Just went back on what i said! THIS is my last post!

I don't think the majority of players log out of losing fights at all, I think they high or low wake depending on the situation.
 
I don't think the majority of players log out of losing fights at all, I think they high or low wake depending on the situation.

Maybe its not my last post :(.

Im saying the majority of people that USE the logout do it to avoid death, not the majority of people who are losing fights log out.

(There are entire threads of people who openly admit to logging out so that their precious crew member dosent die PVE or PVP).
 
Any increase to the menu timer will inevitably lead to more combat logging.

So you'll likely go from whining about 15 seconds being too short, to people simply not using the timer anymore.

If I gotta go, I'm going.

Personally, I'd never use either as an escape tactic anyway, but if you decide to attack me on my return and final trip to the station before I need to leave for work, I will quit on you, rather than be drawn in to a potentially lengthy cat and mouse chase around the system. Lol

If I have all day to play, then I'm going to troll you with my ninja like escape skills. :p
 
Its not mate, and its not particularly far fetched. We usually agree on most things but i have to be honest; anyone who thinks the majority of people are logging out of losing fights because the house is burning down more than avoiding imminent loss is being very naive.

Hang on.

You originally said that you don't accept that most people's use of the timer is the result of real-life stuff.
Now you're saying you don't believe that most people log out of fights as a result of real-life stuff.

Those are different things entirely.

The latter is probably true but the former isn't.
Most people's use of the timer probably isn't anything to do with PvP at all.
It'll be the result of menu-logging at Guardian sites, in RESs, CZs and nav-buoys and similar stuff.

That's why extending the timer is a bad idea - it's fixing an issue that affects a small number of people at the expense of inconveniencing a larger number of people.
 
Hang on.

You originally said that you don't accept that most people's use of the timer is the result of real-life stuff.
Now you're saying you don't believe that most people log out of fights as a result of real-life stuff.

Those are different things entirely.

The latter is probably true but the former isn't.
Most people's use of the timer probably isn't anything to do with PvP at all.
It'll be the result of menu-logging at Guardian sites, in RESs, CZs and nav-buoys and similar stuff.

That's why extending the timer is a bad idea - it's fixing an issue that affects a small number of people at the expense of inconveniencing a larger number of people.

Even i'm getting confused now. What i'm saying is most of the time when people log out mid fight it is not because of an emergency or they gotta go, its because they don't want to die. If you are in a fight with someone and they disappear when their shields drop, i doubt they had to go for dinner but rather didn't want to see the rebuy screen.

There should be no log out timer imo outside of combat in station or not in station, but a 2 minute timer if your being interdicted or mid fight. Thats just how i think the game should be to avoid side-stepping consequence.
 
Hang on.

You originally said that you don't accept that most people's use of the timer is the result of real-life stuff.
Now you're saying you don't believe that most people log out of fights as a result of real-life stuff.

Those are different things entirely.

The latter is probably true but the former isn't.
Most people's use of the timer probably isn't anything to do with PvP at all.
It'll be the result of menu-logging at Guardian sites, in RESs, CZs and nav-buoys and similar stuff.

That's why extending the timer is a bad idea - it's fixing an issue that affects a small number of people at the expense of inconveniencing a larger number of people.

Is there even a timer for non-combat logging? :S
 
Maybe its not my last post :(.

Im saying the majority of people that USE the logout do it to avoid death, not the majority of people who are losing fights log out.

(There are entire threads of people who openly admit to logging out so that their precious crew member dosent die PVE or PVP).

High wake is better unless you are in a tanky ship and can't be mass locked or are in a superspeed build and can get out of range in a hurry in which case you can low wake. Menu logging is the least effective way to save yourself (clogging maybe but that's another issue).
 
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