I've never combat logged, but I would sure appreciate a pause button while I go deal with real life when it impinges my play sessions. That said, I would love more interactions with other players - if there were flags for PvE or PvP (as in games like Neverwinter Nights) then I'd be in open like a shot - more so than otherwise since there's a chance someone would look after me if I had to go AFK suddenly.
How to stop Combat Logging and make the game more FUN for all in open play.
- Thread starter Adam Gorst
- Start date
I know I'm slow to the party but this is a good idea. Do it!
The better solution is what some have advocated (including me) - simply increase the logout timer or the time your ship remains in game after menu exit.
Currently, Open play has two high success rates means of escape:
1- immediate submit on interdiction, boost, high wake FSD --> because mass lock does not inhibit high wake jump + immediate submit = minimum FSD spin up
2- menu logout via FD approved manner (timed menu, not Alt-F4)
Long as you run an adequately shielded build, #1 actually has as good or better rate of success -even in pure trade ships - than #2.
The problem is more players complain about #2 than #1.
And some players go further and complain about -any- means of escape as reasonable.
I advocate open = accept risk of being fired upon, take some hits, but have 1 or more chances at viable escape
I suggest high wake escape is too easy today (yet people oddly complain more about the menu logout). My suggestions to allow viable escape but still some reasonable chance at danger for players is
a) increase timer for logging out if weapons have been fired - this provides players who want to run immediately better chance at escape, and those who returned fire to accept the consequence for battle
b) increase timer between minimum FSD high wake recharge even if no weapons fired because frankly people who think combat loggers get away too easy are missing the point that it is easier to high wake escape as logging out means sitting duck for at least few seconds while high wake = boosting at all times while waiting for high wake timer
*this will be controversial though because it adds jump-jump-jump time for people wanting to chain jump (e.g. exploration, trade jump chains, etc)
alternative therefore is only increase high wake recharge timer for those that deploy or fired weapons. This would allow those that want to immediately run the very high success rates we have now, but force those that accept combat to take consequence of their actions.
Well, I've mentioned that before, but FD is not very clear on the meaning of "open mode".
No information when clicking the "open play" menu entry (unlike CQC f.ex.) and not much in the manual.
I think before taking any further steps, the official FD stance on "open play" is required.
If "anything goes", put an "anything goes" tag on it - which is was some players believe anyway, but that assumption is not unanimous. I don't think that's a healthy attitude to promote open as the preferred mode of play.
But well, better be open about it than retroactively telling someone who thought "PvP" in open should be within a context (and if you don't follow 2 years of forum discussions and are new to open world online games, that is a "natural" assumption") that he's too stupid to know all things internet and all hoodlum agreements of "open play".
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Do you think this would encourage more people into Open? Ie the reason people aren't playing in Open is that it's not hard enough to get away when interdicted?
This is only a good idea if the timer recognizes you are actually in combat and not in all endangered scenarios.
Coming back from DWE I had 100+ mil in exploration data. The value was not even my biggest concern, the effort that went into collecting that data was. After crashing my SRV on a 4G planet, I teleproted back to my T-6 and for no reason the temperature went up. I did a menu log and during that time saw my hull% go down from 94 to 77%, and it was accelarating downwards since my ship went hotter and hotter. If the time-out had been longer than 15 seconds, I would have lost all my data from DWE (since FD can't restore data) and I would have quit this game fer sure.
I can stomach losing data for doing something stupid, not because of a bug. And it was a bug, not running silent or anything else. The developer had no idea what was going on, but the problem went away when they reset my ship.
So my point is: a general increase of the timer is too blunt an instrument. It needs to recognize the situation of combat.
Like your a, hate your b.
Combat folk have some issue, lets screw exploration folk to appease them.
How about increasing the time it takes to stow away your weapons, plus a notification the opponent's weapons are stowed? You get a message when weapons are deployed as well. It provides the agressor with a heads up the other one is going to get away.
And I think there are weapons available (now? soon?) that can interupt an FSD charge, so I wonder if this will prevent more high wake escapes.
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Combat logging is a non-issue.
If it was an issue there'd be a compelling way to do PvP, not open sandbox random murder.
I took part in one of the Imperial-Fed CGs. THAT was some kind of compelling PvP, THERE I would have bothered a bit about a sure kill cheating out.
To make it compelling it needs some form of opt-in or opt-out.
If it was an issue there'd be a compelling way to do PvP, not open sandbox random murder.
I took part in one of the Imperial-Fed CGs. THAT was some kind of compelling PvP, THERE I would have bothered a bit about a sure kill cheating out.
To make it compelling it needs some form of opt-in or opt-out.
Heh, that's an interesting way of looking at it.
Biggest issue is that a lot of people do not understand that Elite is not build for PvP, its more PvE game...and desperately are trying to "fix" the game...
Do not believe me, watch SDC streams where they are killing in Ceaos/SOTHIS Cmdrs in ASP's and trade Pythons, how you can fix this?!
Do not believe me, watch SDC streams where they are killing in Ceaos/SOTHIS Cmdrs in ASP's and trade Pythons, how you can fix this?!
"combat logging" and "non consentual PvP" should be fixed together or not at all.
my vote would be to let immersion die on this one an make a PvP option in the right panel.
if activiated all CMDR damage (weapons an ramming) from and to my ship gets scaled down by factor x (20?).
Activation flag is visible on Basic ship scan.
combat Logging results in ingame bounties, even high ones.
unconsentual PvP would be difficult here, so who's gonna argue?
my vote would be to let immersion die on this one an make a PvP option in the right panel.
if activiated all CMDR damage (weapons an ramming) from and to my ship gets scaled down by factor x (20?).
Activation flag is visible on Basic ship scan.
combat Logging results in ingame bounties, even high ones.
unconsentual PvP would be difficult here, so who's gonna argue?
I'm used to playing games where you can't combat log (well you can but it won't help) so i don't combat log myself, if someone outplays me then that is how it is, i lose. But i can see why people would combat log. But nonetheless it is a cowardly move and annoying to the winning side. So here is a solution that i found to address the coward loggers.
What Fdev could do, is when you are playing in open play and there is a hostile CMDR in the same session as you and you log out, your ship doesnt disappear. It stays there, lifeless. And it stays there until either it gets destroyed, the hostile CMDR leaves or the combat logger logs back in and flies away. This ofc only applies if there is a hostile CMDR. If the CMDR is friendly or neutral your ship will just disappear like it does now. This way combat logging is only beneficial to the winning side as they get an easy kill instead of a disappearing target. And the combat logger is punished, because they will most likely still lose their ship.
i know nothing about coding and if this is even possible. But this seems like a good solution to me.
What Fdev could do, is when you are playing in open play and there is a hostile CMDR in the same session as you and you log out, your ship doesnt disappear. It stays there, lifeless. And it stays there until either it gets destroyed, the hostile CMDR leaves or the combat logger logs back in and flies away. This ofc only applies if there is a hostile CMDR. If the CMDR is friendly or neutral your ship will just disappear like it does now. This way combat logging is only beneficial to the winning side as they get an easy kill instead of a disappearing target. And the combat logger is punished, because they will most likely still lose their ship.
i know nothing about coding and if this is even possible. But this seems like a good solution to me.
Uhm. Why?
If you fear losing your ship, that's in the game design, not you. If that happens you need to ask yourself if the time going wasted really outweighs the rule.
The vast majority of MMOs have PvE and PvP servers. It just boggles my mind that FD went for the lame solo/group option instead of implementing what is the norm. The fact is that a bunch of people would like to play along with other commanders but don't want to PvP (and don't tell me that Mobius is the answer, it is pretty empty except for the occasional encounter around CGs and is even not safe since griefers can still easily make their way there)... implement PvE servers, how frickin hard is it?! Unless they are afraid that it clearly shows that the majority doesn't care about PvP...
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The point is people lose millions upon millions over and over again to people like SDC. They do this with out any penalty. You cannot trade and fight, you can only specialise in one area. People want to play in open but what's the point in losing an evenings progress for some child's ego? Usually you get attacked by multiple ships too. Even a Cutter with its standard trading A6 shields cannot last against a wing of modded ships. If you are playing without Horizons then forget open. I find it hilarious that some of the guys complaining about combat logging are the ones causing it.
Open world games should be renamed to huge death match. So far we have come right, since 1994? The maps have gotten bigger but the game play is just as stale. Perhaps we as gamers are too immature for Open world game play. Since we have all these choices but just choose the same old if it moves kill it attitude.
DayZ was a great indicator of this. The OFP/Arma community were very mature in the early years. The first 2 months of the DayZ mod in Arma 2 were the best experiences in my opinion. There was minimal death matching and lots of cooperative and role playing. If was great. You could happen upon a group of players and more often than not they would kit you out and teach you the ropes. Probably what people would do in an extinction level event. Band together and help each other. Humans do this in times of great collective stress. World War 2 being a prime example of everyone helping everyone.
Same goes for an advanced space faring civilisation. I wouldn't imagine in a time of high technology and affluence, due to extra solar planets being discovered, that there would that much hostility towards anyone. Of course who wants to play a mature immersive game when we can just pew pew everyone right?
Open world games should be renamed to huge death match. So far we have come right, since 1994? The maps have gotten bigger but the game play is just as stale. Perhaps we as gamers are too immature for Open world game play. Since we have all these choices but just choose the same old if it moves kill it attitude.
DayZ was a great indicator of this. The OFP/Arma community were very mature in the early years. The first 2 months of the DayZ mod in Arma 2 were the best experiences in my opinion. There was minimal death matching and lots of cooperative and role playing. If was great. You could happen upon a group of players and more often than not they would kit you out and teach you the ropes. Probably what people would do in an extinction level event. Band together and help each other. Humans do this in times of great collective stress. World War 2 being a prime example of everyone helping everyone.
Same goes for an advanced space faring civilisation. I wouldn't imagine in a time of high technology and affluence, due to extra solar planets being discovered, that there would that much hostility towards anyone. Of course who wants to play a mature immersive game when we can just pew pew everyone right?
Except in dark souls, when you do PvP (or die any other way), you just lose xp/money, not your items/equipement. Plus, you can go where you died and get it all back...
So the only real loss is humanity... which the lack of also avoids PvP in most areas as you need to be human to be invaded.
The equivalent in Elite would be to only lose credits while still having your ships. When you reach 0 credit, you still don't lose your ship. Then you would be able to go where you died to get your money back, except if you're destroyed again...
Different balance there that what is in Elite right now.
Edit : I was responding to a dark souls comparison and forgot to quote. Sorry.
So the only real loss is humanity... which the lack of also avoids PvP in most areas as you need to be human to be invaded.
The equivalent in Elite would be to only lose credits while still having your ships. When you reach 0 credit, you still don't lose your ship. Then you would be able to go where you died to get your money back, except if you're destroyed again...
Different balance there that what is in Elite right now.
Edit : I was responding to a dark souls comparison and forgot to quote. Sorry.
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Nowadays the best way to enjoy playing in open is... not playing in open.
This makes no sense.
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A merry go round indeed! A year and a half later and Roybe is still complaining Open is a "desert", a game mode he admitted to me he never plays on. The fact you even write "lol" at the end of your spurious statement is an indication that you enjoy fanning the flames of this "debate". It is just too....obvious.
Same here. A favorite of mine is RUST, a game where all your stuff, and your Avatar..remains in the game after you log. I know it is not possible given the P2P nature of ED, but I would settle for a game where if you log off, your ship stays in Open Space.
Nope, I feared losing my ship a lot and combat logged a few times in the past. But now my approach is that if I lose, that's part of the game. What you said are just lame excuses for exploiting the game.
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