How to switch a system to a different superpower? Just let it FD do it for you.

Achibot

A
babelfisch said:
In that case you absolutely failed to make that point :)
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The point of my first post was that the number you selected is arbitrary. The second post expanded on both why it's arbitrary and why said arbitrariness is not actually important as the issue is one of game design philosophy. You're right in that I could have done that in one post, as opposed to 3 but that's just the way it happened this time, I wasn't really intending to get drawn into the conversation.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Achibot said:
The point of my first post was that the number you selected is arbitrary. The second post expanded on both why it's arbitrary and why said arbitrariness is not actually important as the issue is one of game design philosophy. You're right in that I could have done that in one post, as opposed to 3 but that's just the way it happened this time, I wasn't really intending to get drawn into the conversation.
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Zadian asked me to pick one of four numbers. I picked the one that made the most sense to me. It's that simple.
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost said:
Sorry.

More detail:
Some time ago I noticed that FD added a PMF aligned to the Empire into a Fed high tech system in an area where only Fed and independent factions are.
Today I noticed that an other interesting system switched superpower alignment - a PMF got added (Alliance) and took over the system.
I think an other system got "changed" via PMF form Empire to Fed.

I think that's bad. PMF should be form the same superpower like faction already in the system.

Edit:
Apparently FD started to add PMFs to the game without any consideration about the superpower alignment.
(Or I just found out today)
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It's been happening for two years now.

Rather than design a system in the game, which works with the BGS, Frontier decided that any player group can petition Frontier to add their own player-created minor faction, and gain control of a system without having actually play the game like us ordinary plebeians.
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Flimley said:
Correct. Once your faction appears in game. You have to work your way up from a single digit percentage. Eventually taking control of the station.

Flimley
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I'm glad that they at least have to work their way up. As I remember it, the first couple waves of PMFs automatically got control of the system they were inserted into.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Darkfyre99 said:
It's been happening for two years now.

Rather than design a system in the game, which works with the BGS, Frontier decided that any player group can petition Frontier to add their own player-created minor faction, and gain control of a system without having actually play the game like us ordinary plebeians.
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Not sure how that system in the game could work, are you proposing that everyone could just create his own faction in the game rather than asking Frontier? Wouldn't that be a mess? Also how would it get rid of the problem? Anyway, player created minor factions don't gain control of a system, they have to play the game just like us ordinary plebeians.
 

CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost

C
babelfisch said:
Not sure how that system in the game could work, are you proposing that everyone could just create his own faction in the game rather than asking Frontier? Wouldn't that be a mess? Also how would it get rid of the problem? Anyway, player created minor factions don't gain control of a system, they have to play the game just like us ordinary plebeians.
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Imagine a system X.
All factions are aligned to superpower Z or are independent.
Now how do you change that system to superpower Y?

A player group (apparently) can get a PMF of any desired superpower alignment. They can then take over the system (like anybody else).

Without getting a PMF aligned to superpower Y a player would have to find a faction aligned to superpower Y and would have to expand that faction into system X. Depending on how far away a faction aligned to superpower Y is, this can take quite a while and a lot of effort.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost said:
Imagine a system X.
All factions are aligned to superpower Z or are independent.
Now how do you change that system to superpower Y?

A player group (apparently) can get a PMF of any desired superpower alignment. They can then take over the system (like anybody else).

Without getting a PMF aligned to superpower Y a player would have to find a faction aligned to superpower Y and would have to expand that faction into system X. Depending on how far away a faction aligned to superpower Y is, this can take quite a while and a lot of effort.
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Yes, I get that and I think I already agreed with you that this shouldn't happen, or if it does happen, only near borders.

The way I read Darkfyre's comment is that he also wants a way to create player factions in game, and I don't know how that should work. It's possible that I misinterpreted his post hough.
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
babelfisch said:
Not sure how that system in the game could work, are you proposing that everyone could just create his own faction in the game rather than asking Frontier? Wouldn't that be a mess? Also how would it get rid of the problem?
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They way I'd do it, if there isn't a player-created faction in a system, then a group can create their own faction as a splinter group, of an existing faction in the system. They can choose the name of the new faction, government type, and write the lore for the faction, but IMO superpower allegiance shouldn't be changeable. If players want, say, an Imperial faction deep in Federation space, they can do the work of getting an Imperial faction to expand into that system.

babelfisch said:
Anyway, player created minor factions don't gain control of a system, they have to play the game just like us ordinary plebeians.
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That's a relatively recent change.

Zac Antonaci said:
Would we be able to claim a controlling/major station if we were to house ourselves in an NPC occupied system? If not, would we start at an outpost?

As long as there isn’t a player sponsored group in that system already then you will be the controlling faction for that system.
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babelfisch

babelfisch
Darkfyre99 said:
They way I'd do it, if there isn't a player-created faction in a system, then a group can create their own faction as a splinter group, of an existing faction in the system. They can choose the name of the new faction, government type, and write the lore for the faction, but IMO superpower allegiance shouldn't be changeable. If players want, say, an Imperial faction deep in Federation space, they can do the work of getting an Imperial faction to expand into that system.
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Yes, I agree that a PMF with different super power alignment shouldn't be put deep inside opposing space. Don't know if splinter groups are necessary for this though. I thought that you are talking about an ingame way to add PMF in your original post.



That's a relatively recent change.
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Yes, I know.

CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost said:
Sorry for misinterpreting your comment. :)
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And I am sorry for misinterpreting Darkfyre's comment. :D
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
babelfisch said:
Yes, I agree that a PMF with different super power alignment shouldn't be put deep inside opposing space. Don't know if splinter groups are necessary for this though. I thought that you are talking about an ingame way to add PMF in your original post.
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I was saying I would've preferred that Frontier develop an ingame way to create your own player-faction, as opposed to Frontier's way of adding factions via the Developer's Fiat. An ingame mechanic, accessable to everyone, would be preferable to the way Frontier has handled things to date.

babelfisch said:
Yes, I know.
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Until bout 30 minutes ago, I didn't know that had changed. :eek: As far as I was aware, this kind of crap was still happening.

And I am sorry for misinterpreting Darkfyre's comment. :D
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Don't worry about it. Stuff happens. ;)
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Darkfyre99 said:
I was saying I would've preferred that Frontier develop an ingame way to create your own player-faction, as opposed to Frontier's way of adding factions via the Developer's Fiat. An ingame mechanic, accessable to everyone, would be preferable to the way Frontier has handled things to date.
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Well that's the point I don't really understand, how should it work? Could anybody create a PMF everywhere as long as it's a splinter group of an existing faction? Wouldn't that be a mess? Let's say there are 20 different people and everyone wants to create their own splinter group of the same faction. I can imagine that things would go out of hand quickly.
I am not saying that this is a bad idea, I just want to know if it's really a good one ;)
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
babelfisch said:
Well that's the point I don't really understand, how should it work? Could anybody create a PMF everywhere as long as it's a splinter group of an existing faction? Wouldn't that be a mess? Let's say there are 20 different people and everyone wants to create their own splinter group of the same faction. I can imagine that things would go out of hand quickly.
I am not saying that this is a bad idea, I just want to know if it's really a good one ;)
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As I said, this could only be done if there isn't a player faction in the game already (which is an existing rule for Frontier's hand edited inserts), and IIRC, the BGS only allows a maximum of seven factions in any one system. I would also not be adverse to creating a new faction costing a large amount of credits. This game needs more credit sinks IMO.

In addition, as far as I know, any player faction can be driven from a system if its mismanaged badly enough. There are no longer any player factions in my home system, while several of the NPC factions I've supported over the years have expanded into my home system, and vice versa. Just like a player who gained an Anaconda and lost it due to ignorance of how the game works, I have no problem seeing player groups lose their factions the same way. :D
 

metatheurgist

metatheurgist
Yep, PMFs suck in general. Should never have been a thing.

Darkfyre99 said:
In addition, as far as I know, any player faction can be driven from a system if its mismanaged badly enough. There are no longer any player factions in my home system, while several of the NPC factions I've supported over the years have expanded into my home system, and vice versa. Just like a player who gained an Anaconda and lost it due to ignorance of how the game works, I have no problem seeing player groups lose their factions the same way. :D
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You can't remove a faction from it's home system. IMO all player factions should be removable from all systems. Player groups have representation but solo players can't band together to remove them completely, all they can do is reduce their influence, get bored and go find a system that's less annoying.
 

Mrat13

M
Actually, I think what we'll see soon is the federation going into obscurity as Alliance players continually turn red systems green. Then they'll be onto the empire......

Protect the empire!
 

DNA-Decay

DNA-Decay
So uh, why should Sol be "of course" God-locked?


36607x1126.jpg

Although I too would like some detail.
My understanding of the rules of PMF injection, is that there had to be a faction of that Allegiance already in system.

Either that rule was relaxed, or the dev at the coalface missed rejecting the application.

Again, Frontier community managers need better Tech and Tools to parse requests and understand the BGS impacts.
 
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Apos

Apos
Supposedly, players aren't allowed to insert a faction of an allegiance that doesn't already exist in the system. Sometimes it even goes as far as being able to only choose the allegiance of the currently controlling faction.

From what I'm told, there's plenty of independent groups who wanted to be Alliance but were blocked through FD's ruling. Or so they claim at least.

However, there seem to be a couple of people within the team that haven't got the memo. If you're lucky enough to have them processing your request, boom, anything you wish for. Imperial faction 30 ly from Sol or Lave? Done, no problem! (those actually exist)
 
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