how will space legs handle deaths

[Watcher]

So if space legs is going to bring base building, first person shooting and theft of ships how many credits is it going to cost me to re spawn in the game when someone shoots me in the head and steals my ship.

How about respawn at the nearest respawn station, whatever that means - the same thing that can manage holome also does some sort of brain uploady scan thing which can download you in to a newly printed body but can't for some reason be used to do too much telepresency multi-person stuff. Perhaps that's a legal (in game) thing as much as anything.

You could then have an optional ship module that allows local respawn, perhaps with some delay and/or some limit to the availability of respawns.

In the first instance you get back to a station and end up having to pay a rebuy to get your ship (and/or we have a new ship recovery mission thing going on).

In the second instance this gives a way for explorers to recover to a ship after a planet accident (making it basically essentialy) and a limited stock and/or cool down gives a chance for boarders to take control in combat situations (assuming we have these) but perhaps still give you a bit of a chance to continue defence longer than otherwise.

A variation on the ship module would be the idea that every ships comes with a base capability to do this, something you can perhaps extend with an optional module. SRV loss and recovery to a ship is already rather like this...*

Assuming we get bases, a respawn room would presumably become an optional, important, base module.

* He says having lost his first SRV recently.

 

[Ipecac]

FPS gameplay is definitely something I want! I do see though, that lots of people dont want it, so I hope it will be a totally optional add, like passenger quests or something.

It would be awesome if there was an infantry-merc office for those missions and if you dont want to buy the expansion, you don't have to, like horizons.

Just walking around in ships and stations a-la the failed eve-online thing would be pointless, unless you got better prices at an in-station kiosk or something, but that's kind of a lame mechanic. I would like to hire pilots in the cantina though.

Ship stealing I would hope (and expect) not.

BONUS IDEA: you have to wash your ship with a sponge and soapy bucket in first-mode. It would take 2 hours and I could start a ship-wash where that's all I do. Devs take heed!

 

[sollisb]

see there is a thing there about a "proper MMO"..... one of the reasons i was so interested in ED was precisely because it was NOT going to be an MMO in the usual sense. (from the mouth of David Braben himself). Of course it seems ever since launch the game has absolutely been going down the standard MMO tropes anyway .

Sometimes i feel ED in a position where it seems to have the worst of all parts....... it is hamstrung for things like persistence and decent npcs and proper narrative, with FD not trusting the client machines to do anything in case they cheat because "MMO"..... we dont get to really damage anything because "MMO and because if we could players would destroy everything..... we cant have all the accelerated time of the other games to see amazing vistas and what not because "MMO", there can be no modding because MMO, the game has to be super simple because of the risk of other players causing many hrs of grief, where as in the past it could be brutally hard but allow players to savescum if they choose.... but at the same time the game at its core does not really play like an MMO and is much more like a single player / casual multiplayer game - just look at what happens when too many people get in an instance, as well as how simple it is to cheat in the game and FD are seemingly unable to really stop it. (ie cheaters can get away with it so long as they do not do something really stupid)

right back in the olden days Elite IV was planned to be a mostly single player game with a separate companion game which would be multiplayer.... i really wish FD had stuck with that.

I hear what you're saying, but to me, Elite is not even close to an MMO. It's a masgup of ill thought out ideas, badly put together, by an inexperienced game house.

 

[sollisb]

HazRES have been added some time after release and they were always supposed to be there for people who find the other RES too easy.

Anyway I am quite happy that Frontier doesn't know how to code a proper MMO because all proper MMOs I've played so far suck.

You're missing the point mate. True, the HazRez was the next step up from the 'policed' Res sites. Then Horizons came along, and all ships game wide suddenly had the ability to be engineered. Player ships could only be engineered 'if' the player bought Horizons. If they didn't, they had to face off against engineered ships.

In a res site, that's no great problem because most players using a res site, are tailcoating the police who engage the NPCs. In a HazRez, you're on your ownios. So a non-engineered ship going up against engineered ships is just not at the races.

This is just another example, of inexperienced people trying to develop an MMO and failing.

As for the proper MMOs, I played Everquest for 10 or so year, and raided in the top 2 guilds server wide. That was a real MMO and some of the best years of my gaming life. I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online now when not in NMS or SC and again, that [eso] is a real MMO. I have yet to see a crash because of too many peopleSo let's call this one, horses for courses?

 

[babelfisch]

You're missing the point mate. True, the HazRez was the next step up from the 'policed' Res sites. Then Horizons came along, and all ships game wide suddenly had the ability to be engineered. Player ships could only be engineered 'if' the player bought Horizons. If they didn't, they had to face off against engineered ships.

In a res site, that's no great problem because most players using a res site, are tailcoating the police who engage the NPCs. In a HazRez, you're on your ownios. So a non-engineered ship going up against engineered ships is just not at the races.

This is just another example, of inexperienced people trying to develop an MMO and failing.

As for the proper MMOs, I played Everquest for 10 or so year, and raided in the top 2 guilds server wide. That was a real MMO and some of the best years of my gaming life. I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online now when not in NMS or SC and again, that [eso] is a real MMO. I have yet to see a crash because of too many peopleSo let's call this one, horses for courses?

No, not really. There was a short time after 2.1 launched where NPC ships had modifications, a bug resulted in the (in)famous Skynet AI and all mods have been taken away from NPCs. Later they added some minor mods, but nothing powerful und just defensive stuff. Some time during 3.3 Deadly and Elite NPCs got access to more modifications.
Nothing of that has anything to do with how a proper MMO (whatever that is) should look like.

 

[babelfisch]

So many complications about something that adds so little gameplay and so much grief. Fdev would be silly to try and implement ship theft. As if random ganking wasn't already bad enough.

As long as ship theft is handled by insurance it would be no different from destroying a ship. The only change is that the offender finally gets rewarded for it.

 

[Kissamies]

Did anyone mention Light Bee telepresence yet?

 

[sollisb]

No, not really. There was a short time after 2.1 launched where NPC ships had modifications, a bug resulted in the (in)famous Skynet AI and all mods have been taken away from NPCs. Later they added some minor mods, but nothing powerful und just defensive stuff. Some time during 3.3 Deadly and Elite NPCs got access to more modifications.
Nothing of that has anything to do with how a proper MMO (whatever that is) should look like.

Actually.... In a real MMO and with experienced devs, the Horizons release would have been a dlc. So far so good. Any combat facing additions would be added to new zones/areas and existing zones/areas left as is. In Elite's case, the better option would have been to leave HazRez as is and add a new type CombatRez or some such, where the engineered ships would appear, but not in the HazRez. Additionally, the Engineered ships would appear in advanced missions etc.

As it is, Fdev opted to cheaply add engineering to all NPC ships leaving players without Horizons at a distinct disadvantage [combat wise].

I don't think your game development experience comes anywhere close to mine, so I suggest we part it there. (for clarification, I was developing MUDs including the net code, long before the Internet was a common thing. Additionally, I spent years developing FlightSim addons. Added to all that I've been playing online games since '79 when the best we had was FidoNet and BBSs)

Elite while being a graphical marvel. Beyond [sic] that, it's let down by being nothing more than it's parentage. A space trader with combat. Having billions of systems/stars that all basically look the same is nothing to write home about. The multiplayer is a mess, the BGS is a bust and Thargoids only attack stations when the servers are offline. Some MMO...

o7

 

[babelfisch]

Actually.... In a real MMO and with experienced devs, the Horizons release would have been a dlc. So far so good. Any combat facing additions would be added to new zones/areas and existing zones/areas left as is. In Elite's case, the better option would have been to leave HazRez as is and add a new type CombatRez or some such, where the engineered ships would appear, but not in the HazRez. Additionally, the Engineered ships would appear in advanced missions etc.

As it is, Fdev opted to cheaply add engineering to all NPC ships leaving players without Horizons at a distinct disadvantage [combat wise].

Actually the way your so called real MMOs are doing is cheap because adding additional content is always easier than integrating it into existing content.
Real MMOs are cheap anyway because they never spend a cent on design and always just copy paste everything from the most successful game in their genre.

I don't think your game development experience comes anywhere close to mine, so I suggest we part it there. (for clarification, I was developing MUDs including the net code, long before the Internet was a common thing. Additionally, I spent years developing FlightSim addons. Added to all that I've been playing online games since '79 when the best we had was FidoNet and BBSs)

My real name is Peter Molyneux, you have no idea who you are talking to!

Elite while being a graphical marvel. Beyond [sic] that, it's let down by being nothing more than it's parentage. A space trader with combat. Having billions of systems/stars that all basically look the same is nothing to write home about. The multiplayer is a mess, the BGS is a bust and Thargoids only attack stations when the servers are offline. Some MMO...

o7

In your opinion, which isn't worth more than mine. So everything is good.

 

[Factabulous]

There's a certain irony in necromancing a thread about death Not as if we don't already have this convo going on in another thread....

 

[LanceLord]

Actually.... In a real MMO and with experienced devs, the Horizons release would have been a dlc. So far so good. Any combat facing additions would be added to new zones/areas and existing zones/areas left as is. In Elite's case, the better option would have been to leave HazRez as is and add a new type CombatRez or some such, where the engineered ships would appear, but not in the HazRez. Additionally, the Engineered ships would appear in advanced missions etc.

As it is, Fdev opted to cheaply add engineering to all NPC ships leaving players without Horizons at a distinct disadvantage [combat wise].

I don't think your game development experience comes anywhere close to mine, so I suggest we part it there. (for clarification, I was developing MUDs including the net code, long before the Internet was a common thing. Additionally, I spent years developing FlightSim addons. Added to all that I've been playing online games since '79 when the best we had was FidoNet and BBSs)

Elite while being a graphical marvel. Beyond [sic] that, it's let down by being nothing more than it's parentage. A space trader with combat. Having billions of systems/stars that all basically look the same is nothing to write home about. The multiplayer is a mess, the BGS is a bust and Thargoids only attack stations when the servers are offline. Some MMO...

o7

Ouch. Well that's a bit harsh. To be fair to ED, such criticism needs a relative basis of comparison to a contemporary game to put it in perspective. The obvious is ED vs say SC from a developmental perspective:

Graphics/Visuals to date:
SC HD graphics are better v. ED (and this feature is probably the best thing SC has going for it to date). SC has space legs, EVA, immersive atmospheric planetary landings, immersive space station interiors, interactive 3D NPCs (with limited AI), a high degree of personal avatar and ship customization. In contrast, ED has poorer graphics, but a superior, realistic/stable Newtonian physics flight model vs. SC buggy pre alpha demo.

Gameplay/Game mechanics:
For all its faults and failings, ED is a viable sandbox with a working/stable flight model, has closed game play loops, has a somewhat weak but well defined lore/player RPG opportunities for emergent game play (for both PvP and PvE) by means of PP and Thargoid game elements, has ability to customize engineered ships, land able planets on which you can travel via land vehicles, a viable economy with working BGS/new currency, will soon have working/stable fleet carriers, n00b friendly in game tutorial/online store, and new crafting element features the likes of base building etc. Space legs are a rumored possibility with 2020 update. In contrast, SC has all these except they're horrifically and poorly executed.

Development schedule to date:
IMO this has become the ultimate discriminator. ED was released on time and schedule. Despite all it's apparent technical failings and shortcomings, ED has since released DLC on time and schedule as promised to date.

For SC OTOH, this should put things in glaring perspective:

• May 25, 1961 - President Kennedy declares his intent to get to the Moon in a decade July 20, 1969
• Presidents Nixon/Johnson complete Kennedy's dream getting to the moon in just 8 years, 1 month and 25 days
• Oct 19, 2011 - CIG launches Kickstarter for SC
• Yet some 7 years, 10 months, 25 days to date as of Sept 9, 2019, something tells me CI isn't launching the polished SQ42 beta by December 2020.

So from a game development perspective, ED is right on point despite all it's faults. SC OTOH, will have been in pre-alpha/alpha development longer then the US Apollo program took to conceive, implement, and execute......

 

[Rick6549]

Ouch. Well that's a bit harsh. To be fair to ED, such criticism needs a relative basis of comparison to a contemporary game to put it in perspective. The obvious is ED vs say SC from a developmental perspective:

Graphics/Visuals to date:
SC HD graphics are better v. ED (and this feature is probably the best thing SC has going for it to date). SC has space legs, EVA, immersive atmospheric planetary landings, immersive space station interiors, interactive 3D NPCs (with limited AI), a high degree of personal avatar and ship customization. In contrast, ED has poorer graphics, but a superior, realistic/stable Newtonian physics flight model vs. SC buggy pre alpha demo.

Gameplay/Game mechanics:
For all its faults and failings, ED is a viable sandbox with a working/stable flight model, has closed game play loops, has a somewhat weak but well defined lore/player RPG opportunities for emergent game play (for both PvP and PvE) by means of PP and Thargoid game elements, has ability to customize engineered ships, land able planets on which you can travel via land vehicles, a viable economy with working BGS/new currency, will soon have working/stable fleet carriers, n00b friendly in game tutorial/online store, and new crafting element features the likes of base building etc. Space legs are a rumored possibility with 2020 update. In contrast, SC has all these except they're horrifically and poorly executed.

Development schedule to date:
IMO this has become the ultimate discriminator. ED was released on time and schedule. Despite all it's apparent technical failings and shortcomings, ED has since released DLC on time and schedule as promised to date.

For SC OTOH, this should put things in glaring perspective:

• May 25, 1961 - President Kennedy declares his intent to get to the Moon in a decade July 20, 1969
• Presidents Nixon/Johnson complete Kennedy's dream getting to the moon in just 8 years, 1 month and 25 days
• Oct 19, 2011 - CIG launches Kickstarter for SC
• Yet some 7 years, 10 months, 25 days to date as of Sept 9, 2019, something tells me CI isn't launching the polished SQ42 beta by December 2020.

So from a game development perspective, ED is right on point despite all it's faults. SC OTOH, will have been in pre-alpha/alpha development longer then the US Apollo program took to conceive, implement, and execute......

Somehow i think the sc devs are just going to take their money and run

 

[M0rty]

I mean whats wrong with Telepresence for space legs?

 

[LanceLord]

Because not all of the player base wants to use VR, or can afford this gaming technology, or are immune from health issues using said technology to play the game.

 

[Rubbernuke]

You have it all backwards.

Think about it: we have SLFs that have an android that you control piloting them. With combat legs, the same thing happens, its you jacking into a combat body and roving about, Arnie style. For other non dangerous things (trading, bowel movements etc) its 'you'. It might be that its a mix of menus and legs for civ stuff.

So Space Feet = Being John Malcovich in space.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

If first person shooting is a large part of the 2020 update that will be the end of the road for me. The last thing I want is to turn Elite into another stupid gore-fest of an FPS game. There are many others to choose from if that is what I wanted. I am actually extremely worried that this is going to be a large part of the focus of the 2020 update and that this will end my time with Elite Dangerous because I don't like ultra-violent games.

Bruh'... FPS doesn't have to be gory.

Take Halo as an example. A shooter with success that other shooters can only dream of.

And there's basically no gore other than a little splatter.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Proper FPS gameplay is highly unlikely, given that the game has to cater to so many control options.

New control specs: Xbox controller required for FPS elements.

If we do get legs, I have a Razer Sabertooth at the ready.

 

[CMDR-ss47ply]

I forgot I posted this time to find my glasses LOL

 

[lysan]

Bruh'... FPS doesn't have to be gory.

Take Halo as an example. A shooter with success that other shooters can only dream of.

And there's basically no gore other than a little splatter.

I want doom splatter