how will space legs handle deaths

[[VR] Mad Mike]

How will space legs handle death?. I hope FDev don't go down the "telepresence" route, please no. The two things that would DOA space legs for me would be, that silly "telepresenec" thing & 3rd person view.

I totally agree with your issue with telepresence, i share it too. imo it was a shortcut which FD introduced which was done by someone who really is not that concerned about breaking the 4th wall or verisimilitude.... I get it, and also get why it does not bother some people but for me it was a massive blunder.

Far better to have introduced ship npcs at the same time - even if all they did was sit on your ship looking pretty with no other function yet other than be needed to fly multicrew ships

and then when people do multicrew for that session they are that character. Any credits earned could just be added to our actual CMDR account but with no in game reason why (there are ways i personally would far prefer it to be done but this would mean more work)

telepresence is something which is not needed for multicrew with just a small amount of work, and besides it has already been decided for the SLFs that telepresence only has a range of.... is it 3km? (SLFs need telepresence as they are throw away drones and not manned ships - tho it would seem with human pilot functionality if needed) One would have to be a nutcase to put their actual meat suit in an SLF however when in combat.. (actually manning an SLF when looking for stuff on a planet surface however, when in tandem with a mate in an SRV on the ground.... now THAT could be cool bit i am going OT now).

 

[LanceLord]

Great post mate it almost covers the bases. The issue I think will be with immersion and realism, whilst clearly this is only a game, some things need to be handled correctly and more realistically.

I doubt that any ship will have such lax security as to simply allow someone to board any ship and fly it. Or the starport security allow it for that matter.

Perhaps one would have to hack into the ship and into the control systems before flying, or programme it with your own credentials. However this perhaps risks turning Elite into a different game.

One would imagine that a ship would only allow its registered and identified owner actually turn it on and fly it.

If I steal a ship, I assume I have to leave ‘my’ ship behind and then get it couriered over to my secret den of stolen ships?

I’ve just murdered the pilot of a grand Anaconda, having freshly graduated from pilot school in a minnow of a Sidewinder... I board the majestic beast and somehow I magically know how to fly the Anaconda! (Hot-wired, of course ;-) ) I’ve always thought that one should attain a certain level of experience before being allowed to fly some ships, which is a dynamic that could/should work well in Elite.

I think boarding a ship in deep space, either a hulk or manned, and then flying it away, would be an awesome mechanic if it can be made to work convincingly.

If you
1. waited to afford a cheap Cobra Mk III,
2. prudently thought to save enough to hire a highly experienced, "deadly" rated NPC pilot, and
3. brought said highly skilled professional pilot with you when you ganked your first flagship, then
4. No. No such prerequisite knowledge or flight experience from your Holo Me would be necessary at all. Also
5. Get ready to be hunted/stalked/KoS by highly skilled player/NPC bounty hunters, law enforcement, and other dread scurvy privateer pilots in the entire star system. And to any players/NPCs jumping into the system by simple scan of the system nav beacon.

Because if the player/NPC thought to engage the "Report Crimes Against Me" distress broadcast signal, all NPCs and players would be immediately alerted to your nefarious activity in that star system. And any other star systems you hyper jump into as that "ganked" tag is a permanent radio active fixture on said stolen ship

And be prepared to be interdicted/harrassed/attacked the entire way by any and all the above on your otherwise uneventful trip back to your pirate den

Now that is what you call emergent game play btw.

 

[Ser Xav]

If my holo-me can do all that, then why don’t me and my holo-me just steal a holo-anaconda on the holo-deck and save the carbon footprint of travelling all those light years to nick the real thing....!

If someone could invent some form of virtual space combat / galactic travelling environment or ‘experience ’, it might just be possible to simulate actual travel across the vast distances of space with all the inherent conflict and inter-agency agendas and narratives, without actually having to be there.

They could even charge for this experience. It might take the form of a multi user interactive virtual world, or universe, if you will, almost indistinct from real life. Granted the participating protagonists, might have to share the same ‘instance’ of that environment, but it could theoretically be a credible solution to addressing the issues of distance, agency and space themed entertainment.

(...hang on a sec....)

 

[babelfisch]

Oh I agree, no reason at all not to get it. Was more highlighting the ineptness at FDev in knowing how to build a proper MMO. Any player should be able to compete at the basic level without expansions. Try doing basic in a HazRez, yet HazRez's have been there from the start.

I'm full sure FDev will manage to make a balls of the next release too.

HazRES have been added some time after release and they were always supposed to be there for people who find the other RES too easy.

Anyway I am quite happy that Frontier doesn't know how to code a proper MMO because all proper MMOs I've played so far suck.

 

[Viajero]

If you die, you wake up in a station med bay closest to yourbpoint of death with the apropriate sized pad and shipyatd, and your ship is counted as lost/stolen/distroyed. You kiss your remlock safty helmet for saving you again and thank the pilots federation rescue teams for picking you up.

You pay your insurance fee at the local authorities and boom your ship is in the hanger. And you go about your day as usual. And curse those that smited you..
One insurance claim pending at any time, multiple insurance claims leads to the prior claim being dissmised and total loss of those assets insues.

From the perspective of the killer/witnesses of your murder, your player model dies and evaporates into sparkly mist, perhaps leaving whatever you were carrying behind. your ship/srv remains in place as long as the instance exists. It can be borded/looted/stolen/exploded as those presant see fit, with appropriate legal consequence.

All ships belonging to dead pilots are no longer insured and may be considered illicit in some duristictions so boarding permission may be denied and or a bounty may be placed on the ship.
Much the same as any cargo or salvage obtained from a derelict ship or thrugh illicit means.

Now you could get killed and fly back to where you died to find your ship and reclaim it etc of the instance still exists, but it would still count as you stealing the ship/cargo/stuffs on board.

If you leave your ship and steal another you could dissmiss your ship and it will be at the nearest station in system.. if no station is in the system you will have to pay for it to be transported to the nearest system with a station with an apropriate sized pad and shipyard, aranged at the time of dissmisal(pick from a list given at the time). Or you could abandon it, leading to it being counted as lost/stolen/destroyed and the insurance due on it to be payed at station services or not if you cant afford it.

When stealing a ship to pilot it, you must ''claim'' the ship via a tab at the helm when you sit down to fly, this makes the ship yours, and the standard rules apply interms of death in an srv or stealing another ship.

If you have no fuel or the ship is not flight worthy (ie: no power or thrusters or lifesupport or FSD)the option for dissmissal or transport will not be available.

I think that pretty much covers all bases?

How would it work if the player stealing a ship wants to sell it or sell some of its modules? Or transfer some of its key modules? Wouldn´t it be just a way for players to too easily transfer large amounts of credits (via selling the "stolen" ship and modules) or transfer advanced engineering modules to one another?

 

[babelfisch]

How would it work if the player stealing a ship wants to sell it or sell some of its modules? Or transfer some of its key modules? Wouldn´t it be just a way for players to too easily transfer large amounts of credits (via selling the "stolen" ship and modules) or complex engineering modules to one another?

Similar to hot ships and modules.

 

[Viajero]

Similar to hot ships and modules.

Yeah but that still would not prevent large sums of credits or advanced modules being freely transferred between players via "stealing". The fines for "cleaning" modules are really low.

 

[babelfisch]

Yeah but that still would not prevent large sums of credits or advanced modules being freely transferred between players via "stealing". The fines for "cleaning" modules are really low.

They could easily be considerably higher for stolen ships / modules.

 

[Viajero]

They could easily be considerably higher for stolen ships / modules.

Could be. But I would imagine that is a devilishly hard thing to balance properly, and FDEV have been very clear in their game development so far that they do not seem to want that risk of players exploiting game mechanics for effectively transferring of Cr (modules would be the same) one another at all. Player ransom mechanics come to mind.

 

[Druner]

Yeah but that still would not prevent large sums of credits or advanced modules being freely transferred between players via "stealing". The fines for "cleaning" modules are really low.

Player is killed, respawn in their ship med bay.

Or

Player is killed, ship is automatically dismissed.

Leta keep it simple, its a game.

 

[babelfisch]

Could be. But I would imagine that is a devilishly hard thing to balance properly, and FDEV have been very clear in their game development so far that they do not seem to want that risk of players exploiting game mechanics for transferring cr (modules would be the same) one another at all.

Just make it 99% of the base value. Or don't allow selling of stolen ships at all.

 

[Viajero]

Just make it 99% of the base value.

Hehe, yeah but then you kill the incentive for eventual ship boarding gameplay and stealing outright

 

[Vardaugas]

Hehe, yeah but then you kill the incentive for eventual ship boarding gameplay and stealing outright

The salt is a reward all of its own.

 

[Viajero]

The salt is a reward all of its own.

I mean, balancing the profits of selling stolen stuff or balancing getting advanced/engineered modules by others etc is a tehoretical possibility, but I would not like to be in FDEV´s skin if they go that route!

 

[babelfisch]

Hehe, yeah but then you kill the incentive for eventual ship boarding gameplay and stealing outright

The incentive is obviously griefing, there doesn't need to be profit!

Seriously though, if the profit can't be higher than the insurance costs and you get a bounty on top it should be enough.

 

[Druner]

Hehe, yeah but then you kill the incentive for eventual ship boarding gameplay and stealing outright

Knowing how the playerbase actively search for exploits, maybe it is for the best.

Or stolen ships coul be sold for a special "underworld" currency on an cooldown fashion to prevent exploiting.

But then again. People willfind ways. Its what we do.

 

[babelfisch]

Let's say my ship costs 100 million, insurance covers 95%. Just put a 95% fine on it when I want to sell a stolen ship and you don't generate money. Sure, someone could use it to give me some money, but it's just 5 million credits. It's faster to give me some void opals.

 

[bladebss]

The price for hot modules and ships is quite low compared to what you pay for them clean, the price for cleaning can be hefty too but i get that its nothing compared to bying the ship and fitting it AND engeneering it, if you abandon your ship so a nother player can ''steal'' it you still have to pay the reby and gain nothing. So the only person that profiting is the thief. its just a question of how much they profit...

If a ship and its modues are tagged as ''stolen'' then it could be considered different than them being ''hot''. So a larger margin is required to clean or sell stolen ships and modules. So you could make a bit of money but not ludicrous cash?

Or


Transfering stolen modules to a clean ship could make the whole ship uninsured, so loss of that ship would mean its gone forever same as a stolen ship.

No option to clean stolen ships and modules.

This would keep it from becoming a shortcut to engeneered module trading and duplicating.

You can sell them at anarchy systems etc for some good money if it was an expensive ship. You can steal a G5 min maxed corvette and fly it, just if you loose it.. its gone. And you are flying a stolen ship so many places wont let you dock and will place bounties on you if scanned.

Makes it worth doing beyond the salt mineing, could also add to criminal game play choices (and omg how bad do we need that!).

 

[CMDR-ss47ply]

The way I see it I if you make the stolen ship say like a lootbox per say each componet worth some thing or of use for upgrading this will really make being a pirate a thing in game a way for you to advace as an outlaw for biden to enter a station. If you start out a life of crime, say after three secussful interdiction you become lawless and progress all the way up to pirate lord with patch and all but it goes toward the commanders name not his ship. So say you grind your way to a corvette before turning to a life of crime you then become a turncoat and stripped of your rank you can keep your corvette as long as you are not killed in it the Fed Navy would never give a vette to a pirate. thats all I got please add your thoughts to this

 

[Vardaugas]

So many complications about something that adds so little gameplay and so much grief. Fdev would be silly to try and implement ship theft. As if random ganking wasn't already bad enough.