I would of done it in a super way and called it the 'Super Full Spectrum System Scanner' (SFSSS)
How would you have implemented the FSS?
- Thread starter amadeus1171
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1. Don't break immersion by flipping over to a whole new full-screen subgame mode. FSS would be a HUD that you cycle to.
2. FSS Honk would do the blob thing but projected onto the HUD. Your out-of-the-window cockpit view would be overlayed with orbit lines and blue blobs
3. You line up with the blue fuzz and zoom in /out to resolve as now.
4 You ALSO get the location only of every body in the system on your system map so you can forgo the mini-golf and actually explore the system properly by flying to the bodies to scan
It is a bit like that after a while very true.
Sad how space games make such bad partners.. Star Citizen has complete disrespect for you and will rob you blind, while Elite is dating an impassive brick wall with self image issues (according to white knights anyway). Unlike the truck sim devs which loving wrap you in a generously serviced game... naturally i've bought all her dlc. It does exist
That's alot of time for zero acknowledgement.
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Unfortunately that seems to be a weak point of the engine. I believe to remember that FD at some time rejected the suggestion of a rear camera, telling us that they actually tried that, but it killed performance so badly that they decided not to do it. So i guess picture in picture also won't be a real option for any other function.
My comforts! That doesn't sound nice.
On the dial: I don't know if it helps you. I also found the dial a bit "fiddly" at the start. But since i switched it to the dial of my HOTAS (luckily it has those), it actually works quite fine for me. So if you have access to something with a dial, you might like to try that.
That being said, a speed/sensitivity setting for the dial indicator might also make sense. Last not least, i dare to say that the dial also has a kind of a display problem. It seems to have less internal values than it seems to display. So while it seems to move smoothly, it only smoothens out the step from one internal value to another. You can't actually stop it in between, no matter how accurate your input is.
So that's another thing where it could indeed be improved. It just wasn't on my mind, as i learned to live and work with it.
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Hey Max, we're actually on the same page here - I wanted probes and gravity slingshots and spending hours exploring a single system too.
If FDev had given us tools to do that, AS WELL AS the FSS we'd have spent a LOT less time arguing on the forums over the last few months
Sterling MH
Banned
I would have the FSS auto zero the throttle. There's a good reason to be at zero throttle in the FSS: you won't faceplant into a sun while busy fiddling around in the FSS screen.
There's a good reason why it's not possible to steer while in FSS too. Not merely that the screen clutter would make BOTH processes (flying and investigating the FSS) harder and slower to complete, but that YOU may be saying with your fancy HOTAS with 6DOF and four thumbsticks and a plethora of buttons at your fingertip that YOU can fly the ship AND manipulate the FSS, but you refuse to think that the game is not witten for you, but for everyone, so you have to think what if you DIDN'T have a monster HOTAS, but used a cheap stick, or keyboard and mouse, or EVERY SINGLE CONSOLE PLAYER who has to use a controller, meaning two thumbsticks and four buttons (yes, a controller has more than four, but to use any of the others you have to stop manipulating at least one thumbstick). So how do THEY steer in FSS? They can't. So you can't either.
And if you are crying about having to slow down to see if there's anything worth scanning in cr/hr terms, the ONLY problem is that you have to physically operate the throttle before you can look. Auto throttle down would solve THAT 100%. And, since you can getback to jump engage speed well within the 15 seconds it takes to high wake to the next system, you lose NO time whatsoever being slowed down by a zero set throttle, as long as you didn't have to move the throttle to do so.
If you wanted to be able to see the high value targets easier, and you HATE the FSS for slowing you down in finding them, don't blame FD, blame the people who SCREAMED at FDev to nerf exploration payout. They propped up R2R earnings per hour as "proof" that exploring needed nerfing. So what the ADS let you do in five seconds now takes you a minute or three. That reduces your earning per hour in R2R by a huge margin.
So if you don't like the FSS slowing you down, don't blame FDev, blame the combat obsessed pilots complaining in their hundreds to FDev that exploring needed nerfing, because the only way to nerf exploring was either cut the payout MASSIVELY (causing you to commit sepuku) or to slow down the R2R cherry picking (causing you to DEMAND the return of the ADS, which would only lead to the combat pilots complaining about the massive cr/hr you earn AND those who LIKE exploration gameplay to BOTH complain to FDev).
So, yeah, the ONLY change I would put to FSS is auto zero throttle.
There's a good reason why it's not possible to steer while in FSS too. Not merely that the screen clutter would make BOTH processes (flying and investigating the FSS) harder and slower to complete, but that YOU may be saying with your fancy HOTAS with 6DOF and four thumbsticks and a plethora of buttons at your fingertip that YOU can fly the ship AND manipulate the FSS, but you refuse to think that the game is not witten for you, but for everyone, so you have to think what if you DIDN'T have a monster HOTAS, but used a cheap stick, or keyboard and mouse, or EVERY SINGLE CONSOLE PLAYER who has to use a controller, meaning two thumbsticks and four buttons (yes, a controller has more than four, but to use any of the others you have to stop manipulating at least one thumbstick). So how do THEY steer in FSS? They can't. So you can't either.
And if you are crying about having to slow down to see if there's anything worth scanning in cr/hr terms, the ONLY problem is that you have to physically operate the throttle before you can look. Auto throttle down would solve THAT 100%. And, since you can getback to jump engage speed well within the 15 seconds it takes to high wake to the next system, you lose NO time whatsoever being slowed down by a zero set throttle, as long as you didn't have to move the throttle to do so.
If you wanted to be able to see the high value targets easier, and you HATE the FSS for slowing you down in finding them, don't blame FD, blame the people who SCREAMED at FDev to nerf exploration payout. They propped up R2R earnings per hour as "proof" that exploring needed nerfing. So what the ADS let you do in five seconds now takes you a minute or three. That reduces your earning per hour in R2R by a huge margin.
So if you don't like the FSS slowing you down, don't blame FDev, blame the combat obsessed pilots complaining in their hundreds to FDev that exploring needed nerfing, because the only way to nerf exploring was either cut the payout MASSIVELY (causing you to commit sepuku) or to slow down the R2R cherry picking (causing you to DEMAND the return of the ADS, which would only lead to the combat pilots complaining about the massive cr/hr you earn AND those who LIKE exploration gameplay to BOTH complain to FDev).
So, yeah, the ONLY change I would put to FSS is auto zero throttle.
And yet I can make two points in favour of allowing us to use the FSS while moving:
1. It's your own decision to do it. If you faceplant into a sun, that's fully on you. Just look where your nose is pointing before you go into the FSS menu. Even if you didn't select the star in the FSS yet, those things are bright. You usually see them.
2. Multi-crew. Currently you can have a crew member to use the FSS. But you, the pilot, has to keep the throttle at zero. Nothing there for you to do. That's not fun. It would be so much better if the pilot could already bring the ship to the first detected bodies (and perhaps even start mapping), while the crew member is still detecting others.
Sterling MH
Banned
Nope, it isn't. Someone with a controller LITERALLY CANNOT. Your assertion is like saying you can fly if you choose to when being told that humans, unlike birds, cannot fly.
So not your choice. Unless you are physically two different bodies running two game instances, you need someone else to do it.
Meanwhile I gave several reasons why you should not. None of which are nullified by your riposte. Given they are uncontested, they are why you can't fly and use the FSS at the same time.
Your post doesn't even demonstrate you NEED to fly, either. The speed of cherry picking systems to map and explore doesn't exist IF the FSS zero throttles automatically on use.
1. Click FSS mode
2. Look at spectrum line
3. See nothing worth a second look
4. Click out of FSS mode
5. Wiggle the throttle
6. Engage hyperdrive
7. Leave.
The ONLY thing being able to fly in FSS mode will do is remove part 5. NOT ONE THING ELSE.
You seem to missuderstand me. I am not saying that I could control my ship while in FSS. I can not. Being able to do so was not my assumption. But I also can not control my ship while being in the galaxy map, system map, PP screen, squadron screen, galnet, etc. Yet my ship can continue flying in a straight line while I am in those menus.
If I open those menus while flying towards a star and I crash into it, that's completely my fault. Or do you suggest that the game now also implements the "throttle must be at zero" limitation when using the above mentioned screens?
Check again. My second point was just another reason why it should be possible. In Multi-Crew the pilot would indeed be able to control the ship while the crew is using the FSS. An actual advantage of multi-crew in exploration. While the current implementation feels like punishment for the pilot.
But this is not even in conflict to what I wrote first: if you enter the FSS while your throttle is not zeroed AND you don't pay attention what your ship is pointed at, the blame is not on the FSS but on the pilot. Just like with any other interface option which takes control away from you by moving you to another interface screen.
No. The important thing being able to use the FSS while the ship is moving is that the ship is able to move while somebody uses the FSS. No matter if the pilot is reckless and steers the ship into a star while looking at the scanner or if the ship is crewed by more than one player and the ship owner can actually still do something, while the crew member is scanning.
That would be a huge upgrade and definitely should not be disregarded.
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This guy get's it.
Multicrew especially is an excellent reason to allow it.
Also I feel like the poster Sterling MH feels you need a lot more controls than you do in super cruise, you only really need throttle and direction -and the FSS only really needs a direction, tuning up/down, a button to zoom, and a button to exit it. That's pretty easy to fit onto a controller.
And really if you were doing it solo and not in mulricrew, you'd probly just point yourself in the direction you wanted to be going while you were scanning.
In multicrew, you have every control available to you, and the other crew member has all the FSS controls available to them, and another guy has all the probe controls they need to probe things as you fly past, while the FSS guy scans other bodies.
Sterling MH
Banned
Then you want developer time spend on something that cannot be used??? No. That's not how "Suggestions" work.
So you want developer time spent so you can screw it up? And, no, several of those pages autozero your throttle, meaning you cannot crash. But why are you asking for a feature that will allow you to blow your ship up by accident? Do you demand that a spike be put on your car's steering wheel so that you can impale yourself if you crash due to your own fault???
No it was not. It was a scenario where you COULD do it, not why it SHOULD be possible to do it.
It wasn't meant to be "in conflict". I would only have to be conflicting with a clai that showed that moving in the FSS SHOULD be possible. You only made a claim how some people COULD fly. Not that they SHOULD be able to. They COULD fly if they had a full HOTAS with some spare thumbsticks. But since the game is played by people who don't have it, that can't be in the game.
Or would you be fine with console users having auto aim for them in their fixed weapons, because mouse and keyboard is KNOWN to be more accurate (hence auto aim in console and consolified FPS games are the norm)?
Ahhh, good old faithful 'development time'. Always a useful argument to throw in if you don't like change
Sorry, but I have to ask: do you even read what I write? Is it really that hard to comprehend?
- There are many menus already in game (some of them you might already have heard of, e.g. galaxy map and system map), which you also can open while your ship is moving.
- Do you think that they should be changed, that they can only be used when your throttle is zeroed?
- If you do not think so, then what's the difference between all of them and the FSS?
Your whole idea is "but it is unfair that people with HOTAS or whatever would be able to -control- the ship while others would not". Which if completely false from the start. Nobody is able to -control- the ship while using the FSS. You are in a separate screen. You can not -control- your ship there, no matter which input method you use. And nobody requested that, either.
The whole thing was that the ship should be able to -move- while you are on the FSS screen. No matter if you use a controller, HOTAS, keyboard or mouse or have attached motion sensors to your PC and control the game by shaking your desktop, you are unable to -control- your ship while in FSS. Just like you are unable to do that while in the galaxy map, system map and other screens like that.
The whole "be able to steer your ship while in FSS" is a whole different thing. Yes, some people also would like that. But yes, by it being a separate screen, it's clear that this is just a pipe dream. As long as FD would not implement the FSS as display on the side panel, it won't happen at all.
The logical, feasible and really wanted thing is just that your ship can have velocity, just like on all the other mentioned screens. Where it's also your very own responsibility to make sure not to crash into things while using them.
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Which one? I named several which do not.
Then let's play this game:
- Galaxy Map. You can use it while moving. Should it be changed so you have to stop to be able to use it? Yes or no? Why?
- System Map. You can use it while moving. Should it be changed so you have to stop to be able to use it? Yes or no? Why?
- Galnet. You can use it while moving. Should it be changed so you have to stop to be able to use it? Yes or no? Why?
- Squadron Screen. You can use it while moving. Should it be changed so you have to stop to be able to use it? Yes or no? Why?
- Engineers Overview. You can use it while moving. Should it be changed so you have to stop to be able to use it? Yes or no? Why?
- Power Play Screen. You can use it while moving. Should it be changed so you have to stop to be able to use it? Yes or no? Why?
And in contrast to the DSS, where you want to stop to map a body, I see no reason why you'd want to always stop when using the FSS. You only want to make sure that you don't crash into anything. Just like for any other of the above mentioned screens, which take you out of the cockpit.
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Deleted member 38366
D
How I would have implemented it?
- use the "honk" to slowly populate the System
(not really slow, like a Pulse moving through the System at 50.000-100.000 Ls per second) and counting detected Gravity up until reaching 100%)
=> not a timesink, just enough to make the honk do something that makes sense; Gravity wells would keep running in while in FSS in large Systems
- the honk itself would reveal Gravity Wells (grey balls), with the FSS being required to "colorize & specify" aka DSS.
(rationale : if a simple honk can give dead giveaways about almost all Planet types, why'd we still have to bother FSSing or even flying there?)
- make FSS a 3D Screen inside the Cockpit that moves down in front of the Pilot's head, keeping everything in-cockpit
(basics like Scanner or HUD notifications still visible, just so that the CMDR in FSS mode isn't totally clueless/unaware of the SC surroundings; no separate "MultiCrew Gunner" freecam)
- make the FSS function perfectly fine both at Speed in SuperCruise, just as in Normal Space
(no need to be a sitting duck in SuperCruise)
- no such thing as "Object too close" or keeping bogus "Adaptive Zoom failed" Messages displayed 2sec after zoomed in already
- neither honking the Scanner nor being in FSS shall deploy Hardpoints (become hollow Triangle in SuperCruise to others) anymore, since that's neither useful nor desirable
- display all Data as it is revealed by the DSS (persistent Ls display and no missing DSS Data until zoom-out and re-zoom-in)
- all Planetary Data displayed within 1-2sec after zooming in (zero artificial lag on Geological sites, nor any unneeded dependencies on frame rate)
- give multiple Frequency Bands in a logical (or realistic) Frequency spectrum the CMDR can toggle, depending on what or if something specific is been searched for
-> seeking anything Water? Frequency according to the Table of Elements, allowing to highlight concentrations of Hydrogen in the System, with spikes indicating the type (Icy rock vs. Water World)
-> seeking ELWs or lifeforms of any type? Biological signatures will be on the spectrum, with spikes indicating the type (benign Gas Giant w/ Bacteria or ELW bursting with life)
-> seeking high-gravity Objects? Gravimetric reading will be your spectrum with spikes indicating unusual/tight Orbits or Objects in unusually close proximity
-> seeking Phenomena? Energetic + Biological signals will form your spectrum, with spikes giving an indication what you're most likely looking at
You catch the drift.
-> just looking at the broad spectrum of what's in the System? Pretty much what we have right now.
Similar to what we have, but more oriented to suit as many Exploration styles as possible, allowing for better finetuning to what specifically is being searched for in any System.
PS.
Firing probes I'd have allowed from far greater Range with no Multi-probe DSS "Minigame" requiring a time-sinkey close approach & dreaded repetition.
Want to map? Target and fire a Probe in SC from any distance. Probes would travel at a mildly (i.e. +25%) greater speed than our Ships, allowing for structured Mapping of Objects inside a System (and a sound decision whether to invest the time or not).
- Mapping Atmo Planets or Objects should also yield some additional Data, otherwise feels too awkward i.e. Mapping an ELW and getting absolutely no new Data from the process
- use the "honk" to slowly populate the System
(not really slow, like a Pulse moving through the System at 50.000-100.000 Ls per second) and counting detected Gravity up until reaching 100%)
=> not a timesink, just enough to make the honk do something that makes sense; Gravity wells would keep running in while in FSS in large Systems
- the honk itself would reveal Gravity Wells (grey balls), with the FSS being required to "colorize & specify" aka DSS.
(rationale : if a simple honk can give dead giveaways about almost all Planet types, why'd we still have to bother FSSing or even flying there?)
- make FSS a 3D Screen inside the Cockpit that moves down in front of the Pilot's head, keeping everything in-cockpit
(basics like Scanner or HUD notifications still visible, just so that the CMDR in FSS mode isn't totally clueless/unaware of the SC surroundings; no separate "MultiCrew Gunner" freecam)
- make the FSS function perfectly fine both at Speed in SuperCruise, just as in Normal Space
(no need to be a sitting duck in SuperCruise)
- no such thing as "Object too close" or keeping bogus "Adaptive Zoom failed" Messages displayed 2sec after zoomed in already
- neither honking the Scanner nor being in FSS shall deploy Hardpoints (become hollow Triangle in SuperCruise to others) anymore, since that's neither useful nor desirable
- display all Data as it is revealed by the DSS (persistent Ls display and no missing DSS Data until zoom-out and re-zoom-in)
- all Planetary Data displayed within 1-2sec after zooming in (zero artificial lag on Geological sites, nor any unneeded dependencies on frame rate)
- give multiple Frequency Bands in a logical (or realistic) Frequency spectrum the CMDR can toggle, depending on what or if something specific is been searched for
-> seeking anything Water? Frequency according to the Table of Elements, allowing to highlight concentrations of Hydrogen in the System, with spikes indicating the type (Icy rock vs. Water World)
-> seeking ELWs or lifeforms of any type? Biological signatures will be on the spectrum, with spikes indicating the type (benign Gas Giant w/ Bacteria or ELW bursting with life)
-> seeking high-gravity Objects? Gravimetric reading will be your spectrum with spikes indicating unusual/tight Orbits or Objects in unusually close proximity
-> seeking Phenomena? Energetic + Biological signals will form your spectrum, with spikes giving an indication what you're most likely looking at
You catch the drift.
-> just looking at the broad spectrum of what's in the System? Pretty much what we have right now.
Similar to what we have, but more oriented to suit as many Exploration styles as possible, allowing for better finetuning to what specifically is being searched for in any System.
PS.
Firing probes I'd have allowed from far greater Range with no Multi-probe DSS "Minigame" requiring a time-sinkey close approach & dreaded repetition.
Want to map? Target and fire a Probe in SC from any distance. Probes would travel at a mildly (i.e. +25%) greater speed than our Ships, allowing for structured Mapping of Objects inside a System (and a sound decision whether to invest the time or not).
- Mapping Atmo Planets or Objects should also yield some additional Data, otherwise feels too awkward i.e. Mapping an ELW and getting absolutely no new Data from the process
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I don't exactly like all you say, but I like your reasoning for it and how you present it. A lot of this sure is worth more than a brief thought.
If we got that, I wouldn't want the FSS in the game at all.Hey Max, we're actually on the same page here - I wanted probes and gravity slingshots and spending hours exploring a single system too.
If FDev had given us tools to do that, AS WELL AS the FSS we'd have spent a LOT less time arguing on the forums over the last few months
Frankly, there should be no screen switches. Everything should be in FPV. It's especially ridiculous in VR to go from your cockpit to a completely separate screen to navigate the galaxy, system, FSS, etc...