It can't. Running ED at 2x SS means reprojection 100% of the time.
HTC Vive resolution and focus
- Thread starter Zac Antonaci
- Start date
+1
Ages ago (almost a year ago) I was banging on about a proper AA solution for Cobra and ED. I've made a post about it as well as even in 2D the only way to make ED look pretty at 1080p was by SS2x and that just seemed backwards to me and far too demanding for no reason.
Here is an example of what good AA can do for graphics - http://www.livenda.com/ctaa/ This is for Unity, but it can serve as a good example that we should be able to run the game with almost no SS (maybe just 1.2-1.5) in VR and still we shouldn't suffer any horrible AA issues if modern AA solutions are used. For those who are versed in Engines I would recommend to try this AA in Unity and you will see what I mean. I can also strongly recommend the VR demo from Unreal to see how good can Vive perform with no SS and then you can compare that to your visual quality in ED and see why Vive experience in ED is subpar. Proper modern AA solution shouldn't kill our frame rates, but offer us just enough clarity without sparkle fest and these solutions are out there for other engines (Unreal/ now Unity as well as Stingray) I really hope that FD comes up with solution soon as I would really like to enjoy ED without head aches and pushing my GPU to it's absolute limits everytime I play ED. Please FD come through for us. We have waited long enough for some amazing solution
. If FD fixes the Scale issue (I wish to be able to play in a adult body rather then some 13 years old Teenagers body - Scale slider???) and gives us modern AA solution for VR, I would be a very happy chappy.
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Supposedly, techniques that selectively only apply multi-sample antialiasing (...or "sub-pixel rendering", if you prefer) where really needed (On polygon edges; Textures have their own filtering and mipmap setup) is a bit of a no-go with deferred rendering, which is becoming more and more common, because it offers its own set of benefits, and is used for much of Elite Dangerous. (...although there is a mix, I believe; Some bits do use an older-style "forward" rendering paradigm, apparently, and they can have it).
Hence the deep-rooted and not easily dismissed need for full-screen supersamling, at the moment.
You conceivably run into another problem, though, when you increase the render target size, and that is that you could also inherently jump to a higher LOD level, which will bring new geometrical detail into the view. This is delightful, actually; More detail - Yay! Problem is that all those new edges - often anisotropic to the view, in relation to one another*, appear over such a small area, that they end up just as shimmery as the larger-scale detail was before its rendering sub-pixel, so now you have additional aliasing that wasn't there before.
John Carmack wrote an article recently, where he pressed the particularly high importance of antialiasing in VR (...where any impression of discrete transitions will doubly mess with your sense of scale, and movement, and world stability), and suggested several techniques to combat jaggies, including some things that can feel a bit like surrendering to obsolete obfuscating techniques, such as not relying on geometrical detail for distant things, but rather use simpler objects, which defer any edge detail to alpha-blending textures instead.
Personally, I can't wait until raytracing becomes a viable option for realtime graphics. Coupled with eye-tracking, its per-pixel nature, and suitability to parallelisation, should be able to come into its own.
* Try this: Open a pixel art program, and use its line tool to draw a line in a random, non-orthogonal, direction, with antialiasing off. Then draw a second line, in another colour, really really close to the first one - so close that the lines are practically less than a pixel apart, centre-to-centre (just offset them somewhat along their lenghts). What you wind up with, is essentially exactly the same non-contiguity as you see in Elite, where two polygons in, say, a cylindrical strut, are drawn closer together-, one after the other, -than the bitmap they are drawn on can accomodate without antialiasing.
Hence the deep-rooted and not easily dismissed need for full-screen supersamling, at the moment.
You conceivably run into another problem, though, when you increase the render target size, and that is that you could also inherently jump to a higher LOD level, which will bring new geometrical detail into the view. This is delightful, actually; More detail - Yay! Problem is that all those new edges - often anisotropic to the view, in relation to one another*, appear over such a small area, that they end up just as shimmery as the larger-scale detail was before its rendering sub-pixel, so now you have additional aliasing that wasn't there before.
John Carmack wrote an article recently, where he pressed the particularly high importance of antialiasing in VR (...where any impression of discrete transitions will doubly mess with your sense of scale, and movement, and world stability), and suggested several techniques to combat jaggies, including some things that can feel a bit like surrendering to obsolete obfuscating techniques, such as not relying on geometrical detail for distant things, but rather use simpler objects, which defer any edge detail to alpha-blending textures instead.
Personally, I can't wait until raytracing becomes a viable option for realtime graphics. Coupled with eye-tracking, its per-pixel nature, and suitability to parallelisation, should be able to come into its own.
* Try this: Open a pixel art program, and use its line tool to draw a line in a random, non-orthogonal, direction, with antialiasing off. Then draw a second line, in another colour, really really close to the first one - so close that the lines are practically less than a pixel apart, centre-to-centre (just offset them somewhat along their lenghts). What you wind up with, is essentially exactly the same non-contiguity as you see in Elite, where two polygons in, say, a cylindrical strut, are drawn closer together-, one after the other, -than the bitmap they are drawn on can accomodate without antialiasing.
The silence means no fix is coming. Not in awhile anyway. To go this many months with nothing, means it could easily be next year before they even start to look at this. Clearly, the Vive is low on their priorities.
I admit they got me pretty good. Bought horizons for nothing.
At several hundred hours, I got good value from Dangerous. Looks like I'm waiting it out for Star Citizen now though.
You can't seriously think that Star Citizen will have working VR before Elite...
And to reiterate what many people are saying: I own a Vive and I enjoy playing Elite in VR all the time with zero issues.
What are your computer specs and what settings are you using? Not to combative, I'm curious.
I can also run elite at almost acceptable quality without too many issues. However, I have a Titan X Pascal, running at 1.5 SS in steam and still experience jutter and double vision at times. Before when I had a Titan X Maxwell the game was completely unplayable at any SS through steam VR. And yes I did remember to turn SS in ED to 1.
And lets be fair, not everyone can afford to throw money at the beastliest cards especially after getting the Vive. We know that FD has bungled their vive support and that the kind of hardware I am currently running should not be necessary to run ED.
How does this help?
SLI/Cross fire dose not work . it will make thing choppy or stutter.
Ah that explains a lot to me then. I have been running with crossfire on in the Vive using two HD7980 on high quality and it was doing well in space and combat but when I hit the SRV I got motion sickness from the frame rate dropping.
I have two R9 390`s and its sick dag time when using crossfire. [wacky]
I Hope you guys have turned off 'always on reprojection' in the settings. Also someone posted about a bug in ED graphics settings which caused issues after a change. I took someone's suggestion and deleted the FD folders under my user name and redid the graphics which worked ok... Ish.
Still waiting on a fix though guys, this game is hard work around other cmdrs and surface ports. The stuttering is a headache packaged into the few seconds it takes to get out the airlock. Also same with mining. Will put in a ticket later as it looks to be related to the server code side of things... Don't know why other cmdrs have such an impact on my game though? Does anyone have any suggestions to ease it or just go solo play?
Still waiting on a fix though guys, this game is hard work around other cmdrs and surface ports. The stuttering is a headache packaged into the few seconds it takes to get out the airlock. Also same with mining. Will put in a ticket later as it looks to be related to the server code side of things... Don't know why other cmdrs have such an impact on my game though? Does anyone have any suggestions to ease it or just go solo play?
I created a new user on windows 10 and run elite from there, before I did that it stutters a lot.
I was mining exclusively for quite a while but didn't have any issues. The pc uses an Amd FX9590 and 780 ti sc.
I've recently got a new pc but have just been playing it on the TV. Will be testing the vive tomorrow. New pc has an i7 6850k (oc to 4.3) and an msi Seahawk 1080. Fingers crossed it'll be even better. I haven't tried supersampling with the old rig but will try that too.
Fly safe all
I've recently got a new pc but have just been playing it on the TV. Will be testing the vive tomorrow. New pc has an i7 6850k (oc to 4.3) and an msi Seahawk 1080. Fingers crossed it'll be even better. I haven't tried supersampling with the old rig but will try that too.
Fly safe all
Hey everyone. Checking in for my first time in about 3 to 4 months. I sold my HTC Vive a few weeks after I bought it. I certainly LOVED the device, but there were a few concerns I had. For one, I really don't have the necessary space to play RoomScale titles. Also, I wasn't happy with its image quality in Elite: Dangerous, which ended up being by far the most important title in my VR collection.
Well, I just got an Oculus Rift today. I played Elite: Dangerous for an hour and can confirm that it has much better image quality in Elite: Dangerous. I would say that it's maybe less of a big deal than I expected, but there is 100% a better sense of scale, and far less of the aliasing and shimmering present. Oh, and this is all playing at sample 1.0x.
I imagine the issue is MOSTLY software oriented, but honestly, I feel like Oculus Rift has the better screen. I am certain that this will impact future multiplatform titles, although hopefully to a lesser extent than Elite: Dangerous.
Good luck fellow commanders!
Well, I just got an Oculus Rift today. I played Elite: Dangerous for an hour and can confirm that it has much better image quality in Elite: Dangerous. I would say that it's maybe less of a big deal than I expected, but there is 100% a better sense of scale, and far less of the aliasing and shimmering present. Oh, and this is all playing at sample 1.0x.
I imagine the issue is MOSTLY software oriented, but honestly, I feel like Oculus Rift has the better screen. I am certain that this will impact future multiplatform titles, although hopefully to a lesser extent than Elite: Dangerous.
Good luck fellow commanders!
I have an stock i7 6700k, stock R9 390X, 16GB DDR4, Windows 10, SteamVR SS 1.5, in-game SS .65, VR High with a couple of adjustments like ambient occlusion turned up from off => low and shadows turned from mid => low, blur off, and I think that's it. I don't even remember making those adjustments so I don't know if they're helping or hurting.
I don't ever stutter and text is quite readable. I have no idea if I'm reprojectioning all the time or not.
I fight a lot, but tend to avoid PVP as the last time I was attacked by a Viper, I almost lost my Python. I haven't really gotten a chance to improve my skills vs battle-hardened CMDRs. Lately been fighting in smaller ships.
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