I dont get why everyone thinks Ellite is such a grind

Op. I love your post and I agree with you that's it's not a grind game. The game is whatever we want it to be and we play however we want and to the extent we want. We put in whatever we want!. I have been playing since kickstarter and have no idea how many hours I've played except it's a bunch and just bought a second account a few months ago. I still don't have alot of time with this 2nd account but have decided it will be a Cobra MK III and fully engineered. It is about 20% towards the engineering goal.

I love the cat drawer and will make one similar in my wife's desk as shes the cats favorite... +1 for an engaging discussion thread! thank you!
 
I'd prefer they fixed the game. It was supposed to be a fine wine, but we ended up with some postmix coca cola.

It is what it is.

I enjoy ED for what it is. I report bugs when I find them and I too get annoyed when I see old bugs return to the game after an update. But after playing this game for 3 years, I have come to accept all this stuff as just part of the package. The often quirky and eccentric world of Elite Dangerous and Frontier Developments.

For better or worse, ED is ED.

If I had as big an issue with everything as so many others in this thread apparently do, I would have uninstalled the game and moved on ages ago.

If you choose to hang around, then you are basically accepting ED for what it is too. Making a bunch of screaming noises over stuff that may or not ever be fixed is something I choose not to expend my energies on.

Again... Life is too short for pointless negative rage.

I could easily make the "Repetitive Grind" argument for pretty much every single popular game out there in 2018, if I had that entitled mindset. The mindset of...

"I have no time for this crap! Give it all to me NOW!"

Folks who espouse that argument should have a serious sit down with themselves as to whether or not video games as a hobby are even something that has a place in their lives at this point in time.

I would seriously prefer they accept the fact that video games are not something they actually enjoy, and move on. Leaving the rest of us to enjoy ED for what it is.

Free of this constant negative vortex of angst and outrage from people that shouldn't even be here.
 
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It is what it is.

I enjoy ED for what it is. I report bugs when I find them and I too get annoyed when I see old bugs return to the gam after an update. But after playing this game for 3 years, I have come to accept all this stuff as just part of the package.

For better or worse, ED is ED.

If I had as big an issue with everything as so many others in this thread apparently do, I would have uninstalled the game and moved on ages ago.

If you choose to hang around, then you are basically accepting ED for what it is too. Making a bunch of screaming noises over stuff that may or not ever be fixed is something I choose not to expend my energies on.

Again... Life is too short for pointless negative rage.
I do not see the rage you see. Saying otherwise seems disingenuous, and that their criticisms are unimportant or worthy of discussion. You do not get a better game without construstive criticism. Granted a fair bit isnt so, but I see so much more of calm constructive ideas than people plain ing. Hell the people I seem to see ing more often than not is those who either, those that believe the game is ok or those that are bored/annoyed at the amount of threads criticising the game for what it is.
 
I do not see the rage you see. Saying otherwise seems disingenuous, and that their criticisms are unimportant or worthy of discussion. You do not get a better game without construstive criticism. Granted a fair bit isnt so, but I see so much more of calm constructive ideas than people plain ing. Hell the people I seem to see ing more often than not is those who either, those that believe the game is ok or those that are bored/annoyed at the amount of threads criticising the game for what it is.

Don't know what forums/threads you are reading then. ;)

50% of the threads on here are negative anti-ED threads. All complaining that the game isn't what they want.

I see very little "constructive" criticism in those threads. What I see are comments from gamers who either "Don't get it", or are expecting this game to magically morph into something it currently isn't and never will be. Those players are NEVER going to be satisfied with this game... EVER!

I could go back 3 years and find nearly identical threads. Some of them from these very same people.

Either way, every single one of those players need to leave and find something they actually enjoy doing. For those of us who can enjoy ED for what it is, their continued presence with all of that over the top negative energy is really not welcome here.

Personally, my IGNORE LIST is full of them. And I will continue to add to that list for as long as these obviously clueless individuals continue to haunt this community.
 
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Don't know what forums/threads you are reading then. ;)

50% of the threads on here are negative anti-ED threads. All complaining that the game isn't what they want.

I see very little "constructive" criticism in those threads. What I see are comments from gamers who either "Don't get it", or are expecting this game to magically morph into something it currently isn't.

Either way, every single one of those players need to leave and find something they actually enjoy doing.

The only rage I'm seeing is yours.
 
I've seen better threads about "THE GRIND", what it actually is and how to avoid it. This one doesn't cut it. It only provides new fodder for all those people who will grind anyway no matter what. They'll never get how the game is meant to be played. They pick one certain activity, grind it to death and then blame the game for not preventing them to do so.

I mean if bounty hunting was worth the effort and potential risk, maybe i would do it. But no, scanning ELWs, TWWs and HMCs can net me far in excess to what I could earn bounty hunting. In 21hrs I had not only reached Elite(from trailblazer) in exploration but earned 220mil. Why should i haul to some of the more atmospheric and interesting content, only to have to repeat it to boredom just to unlock something that gets overshadowed by engineering its counterpart, except weapons but even then they sound better for tharg hunting than anything else.

And lets not get onto the topic of Active and Passive gameplay of which ED is mostly the latter. You wander about and hope the game hands you what you want or need.

For me, i dont care if the grind is there or not. I care if its laid bare for me to see it. Once its hidden behind fun, engagement and immersive gameplay, I wont care at all. As my favourite Futurama quote goes "If you do the job right, no one will even be sure you were there at all".
 
My views equally simple grinding is what makes the game grindy for some, so I don't bother.

Ok, let me be sincere. And try to explain to you why your viewpoint is not overly appliable.
Trust me, I do understand your standpoint. But thing is, people are different.

Firstly, answer yourself a question: why do you play this game? And why do you play games overall?

And I'll give you my answer. In short, "Achievement unlocked".
And that is the only reason why people play video games. Trust me, this is the truth, whether you understand it or not.
At least the goal always should be present. Presence of a goal is what defines a video game, whether is a long or short-term one.
It is the pace people take to achieve one of such goals can be different. In my case, at least, I cannot take slow pace to achieve anything in the game. My play time is limited.
And take top-selling games. None of them contain long-term goals, without the abundance of short-term ones at least.

People play video games to shift their attention from problems. Fully or to some extent. I myself play Solitare while I think about something, in order to reduce the effect of situation's gravity on my decisions.
This is their only purpose. Some people use it to divert their attention from small problems. Some people cover questions of the purpose of life with them. And anything in between.

Life by itself has no purpose. This can be argued upon, but that is not the point. Point is that video games remove that answer or question itself from person's field of view.

And this to extends about every aspect of life. Take religions for example. Take personal life building. Take money making. Take alcohol or drugs.
Means can be different, whether it is a "grind" of "righteousness" for delayed gratification of eternal life, or assembling money for gaining power to do right things somewhere in the future, and with power usually used to get more money, or drunken haze/bliss of love simply erasing all questions from your head.

All of this can be subliminal or can be understood and accepted by different people. But the fact is a fact.

And it is important to understand that road have the same importance as the goal itself. In fact, the road is more important. Especially for games.
Such "road" is what is called gameplay.


Video games are the quintessence of such activities. All of the vagueness of real life is removed. You have a clear and tangible goal. And you have means to achieve it. Then you can restart or you can proceed to the next (different or subsequent) goal.
This is why ED is a game and Space Engine is not.

And all of this is or should be understood by any game developer in order to create a successful game. And you can already start to understand where Fdev fails.

  • Take GTA for example. "I completed Vice City and all I got was this lousy t-shirt". It is all about gameplay.
  • Take WoW. All of those "bring 12 bear rears" stuff disappears from progression at some point. Which gives enough of a drive to pull through. Then your knowledge of the game and social qualities take top priority. Not to mention that you have alternatives to quest grind from the beginning.
  • Take Dark Souls. Imagine it without leveling system and loot. And it's the only flaw is that P2P specifics remove all competitive value from high-end activities, which are PvP.
  • Take Dota. It takes about 30 minutes to achieve victory or fail to do so at current meta. To climb one step higher on the ladder or fail at that. And the amount of skill you can achieve is unlimited. I am still at top 100 on one of the heroes by dotabuff ladder, but I am by no means a top-notch player.


Where is ED in that mess? All progression is basic and consists of fetch quests or waiting for a month. And you have no interchangeable alternatives in ways to achieve lastest goals. You have some for money, but all of them are dull and all you can get from applying your game knowledge is a money exploit, which gives you the ability to complete the single dull repetitive task to maximize your credits per hour.

Thargoid genocide is removed from progression, you cannot even see how many you had slain. PvP leaderboards are absent. And the grandfathering balance decision kills validity of "create the best PvP ship" goal almost entierly, at least for big ships. I can go on and on. All of it is pretty obvious if you really think about it.

And the facts that this game have crapton more potential and it has no alternatives in setting, makes all of this simply insulting.
All that Fdev does is baits people into buying the game by putting more and more concepts inside without polishing them whatsoever.

I do not know why it is that way. It is either developers are infantile or they simply do not care what comes after you buy the game, whether because of laziness or a cold calculation. Probably by an inconcious mixture of both.
But fact that given all potential, ED does not try to become something more than Solitare or fails horribly at that, is unquestionable.
 
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verminstar

Banned
I've seen better threads about "THE GRIND", what it actually is and how to avoid it. This one doesn't cut it. It only provides new fodder for all those people who will grind anyway no matter what. They'll never get how the game is meant to be played. They pick one certain activity, grind it to death and then blame the game for not preventing them to do so.

The game has a lot of issues but the GRIND is basically a brain fart in the player's own head.

Ive played both ways...how does that figure? In my case, I chose to grind and have not once complained about it. When Im done grinding, Ill go do something else...simples, not harm done.

But this thing about the way its meant to be played bugs me greatly...Im not here to play someone elses idea of a good game, considering the game told me I was free to choose. How can there be a right or wrong way to play and still have freedom of choice? It doesnt make sense because if the choice is there and its a selling point of the game, then nobody can dictate or even suggest a right or wrong way to play as all ways are equal in the eyes of the truly unbiased, are they not?

Saying theres a right way to play and a wrong way to play is how others justify trying to force their ideal game down everyone elses throat, so they can sit and feel good about themselves. Its half the problem on these forums sometimes truth be told and it simply ddesnt wash. Ye play or ye dont play,,,right and wrong doesnt come into it ^
 
Of course they're grindy and boring. The only people who don't think so don't engage that part of the game in a focused manner. But anyone who needed to engineer a ship for something besides a better jump range is going to know the truth. The activities required to fully spec a combat ship are boring, repetitive and random.

The gaurdian stuff is so bad that there is almost no point in engaging it at all.

I know what you think already Jason, and I'm agreement :) It's the people that say there's no grind in the game I'm trying to get a response from. You know, play your own way and pick stuff up as you do so. The lack of any replies is deafening so far. Either HGEs and the Guardian unlocks are awesome fun to some people, or they're things that aren't part of the game and I'm hallucinating.
 
I know what you think already Jason, and I'm agreement :) It's the people that say there's no grind in the game I'm trying to get a response from. You know, play your own way and pick stuff up as you do so. The lack of any replies is deafening so far. Either HGEs and the Guardian unlocks are awesome fun to some people, or they're things that aren't part of the game and I'm hallucinating.

I asked the OP earlier in the thread what besides money and rank (which we all can agree are pretty easy and painless to acquire) he's managed to gain, but that was brushed over, too. Where are the Tech Broker unlocks to effectively take part in the new and exciting Thargoid plotline? How about that PvP fit FdL with 3x weapons suites to handle various scenarios such as large scale wing combat, with a couple other combat ready ships fully outfitted for PvP, too, on the sideline? How about the unlocking of all the engineers (can't have a PvP fit ship without that) and leveling them up, etc?

All I know right now is that the OP is adept at happily refreshing the mission board and farming NPC's, probably while getting the 4000 hours of playing Mario Kart at the same time on the other screen.
 
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I do play other games, but there's quite a lot I enjoy quite a lot about this game. I've paid munnies for it and am giving my opinions on how certain aspects are not so enjoyable. There are parts of the game that can only be attained by doing something repetitive that rapidly becomes tedious. The two examples in particular I gave earlier were the HGE for mats mechanic and unlocking the guardian tech. So far no-one's responded to my question - are these novel, fun and engaging bits of gameplay that you actively look forward to?

An increase drop rate for HGEs would be a step in the right direction for me.

No there is no positive step that can ever be made in any direction to reduce grind. It really doesn't matter what FDEV do, because you will find a way.

The game isn't boring, you are.
 
Ok, let me be sincere. And try to explain to you why your viewpoint is not overly appliable.
Trust me, I do understand your standpoint. But thing is, people are different.

Firstly, answer yourself a question: why do you play this game? And why do you play games overall?

And I'll give you my answer. In short, "Achievement unlocked".
And that is the only reason why people play video games. Trust me, this is the truth, whether you understand it or not.
At least the goal always should be present. Presence of a goal is what defines a video game, whether is a long or short-term one.
It is the pace people take to achieve one of such goals can be different. In my case, at least, I cannot take slow pace to achieve anything in the game. My play time is limited.
And take top-selling games. None of them contain long-term goals, without the abundance of short-term ones at least.

People play video games to shift their attention from problems. Fully or to some extent. I myself play Solitare while I think about something, in order to reduce the effect of situation's gravity on my decisions.
This is their only purpose. Some people use it to divert their attention from small problems. Some people cover questions of the purpose of life with them. And anything in between.

Life by itself has no purpose. This can be argued upon, but that is not the point. Point is that video games remove that answer or question itself from person's field of view.

And this to extends about every aspect of life. Take religions for example. Take personal life building. Take money making. Take alcohol or drugs.
Means can be different, whether it is a "grind" of "righteousness" for delayed gratification of eternal life, or assembling money for gaining power to do right things somewhere in the future, and with power usually used to get more money, or drunken haze/bliss of love simply erasing all questions from your head.

All of this can be subliminal or can be understood and accepted by different people. But the fact is a fact.

And it is important to understand that road have the same importance as the goal itself. In fact, the road is more important. Especially for games.
Such "road" is what is called gameplay.


Video games are the quintessence of such activities. All of the vagueness of real life is removed. You have a clear and tangible goal. And you have means to achieve it. Then you can restart or you can proceed to the next (different or subsequent) goal.
This is why ED is a game and Space Engine is not.

And all of this is or should be understood by any game developer in order to create a successful game. And you can already start to understand where Fdev fails.

  • Take GTA for example. "I completed Vice City and all I got was this lousy t-shirt". It is all about gameplay.
  • Take WoW. All of those "bring 12 bear rears" stuff disappears from progression at some point. Which gives enough of a drive to pull through. Then your knowledge of the game and social qualities take top priority. Not to mention that you have alternatives to quest grind from the beginning.
  • Take Dark Souls. Imagine it without leveling system and loot. And it's the only flaw is that P2P specifics remove all competitive value from high-end activities, which are PvP.
  • Take Dota. It takes about 30 minutes to achieve victory or fail to do so at current meta. To climb one step higher on the ladder or fail at that. And the amount of skill you can achieve is unlimited. I am still at top 100 on one of the heroes by dotabuff ladder, but I am by no means a top-notch player.


Where is ED in that mess? All progression is basic and consists of fetch quests or waiting for a month. And you have no interchangeable alternatives in ways to achieve lastest goals. You have some for money, but all of them are dull and all you can get from applying your game knowledge is a money exploit, which gives you the ability to complete the single dull repetitive task to maximize your credits per hour.

Thargoid genocide is removed from progression, you cannot even see how many you had slain. PvP leaderboards are absent. And the grandfathering balance decision kills validity of "create the best PvP ship" goal almost entierly, at least for big ships. I can go on and on. All of it is pretty obvious if you really think about it.

And the facts that this game have crapton more potential and it has no alternatives in setting, makes all of this simply insulting.
All that Fdev does is baits people into buying the game by putting more and more concepts inside without polishing them whatsoever.

I do not know why it is that way. It is either developers are infantile or they simply do not care what comes after you buy the game, whether because of laziness or a cold calculation. Probably by an inconcious mixture of both.
But fact that given all potential, ED does not try to become something more than Solitare or fails horribly at that, is unquestionable.

Dev bashing is as boring as grinding.
 
Gotta say, I don't really get all the "well, just don't do the stuff you don't enjoy" rhetoric.

It's kinda like asking somebody if they enjoy playing football and, when they say "Yeah, but it's exhausting", telling them to avoid the energetic parts.
 
Dev bashing is as boring as grinding.

Well, I had never "bashed" Icefrog on dota. All I ever did on his forums were bug reporting. And placed a couple of suggestions when they lost their way with Phoenix which is the one of my favourite heroes. At some point his concept was completely changing each patch.

"Bashing" devs have reasons in the first place. And it is the consequence.
 
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The only rage I'm seeing is yours.

If you honestly believe that, then you have NO IDEA what the term RAGE even means. I have no RAGE here. Just calmly and objectively pointing out the obvious to those too blind in their entitled outlook on life to see it.

I am simply stating facts based on observation. In the end, I could really give a crap what these people think. To me they are incredibly clueless individuals who despite their whining to the contrary put very little value into their own personal time. If they did, they wouldn't be here.

Nice try, but in the end, your comment was about as off base and factually bankrupt as it gets.
 
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If you honestly believe that, then you have NO IDEA what the term RAGE even means. I have no RAGE here. Just calmly and objectively pointing out the obvious to those too blind in their entitled outlook on life to see it.

I am simply stating facts based on observation. In the end, I could really give a crap what these people think. To me they are incredibly clueless individuals who despite their whining to the contrary put very little value into their own personal time. If they did, they wouldn't be here.

Nice try, but in the end, your comment was about as off base and factually bankrupt as it gets.

Trying to convince me of how calm and non-rage filled you are by using alcaps? Interesting strategy. If your own comments don't qualify, please direct me to the one's that do that you were calling out:)
 
I know what you think already Jason, and I'm agreement :) It's the people that say there's no grind in the game I'm trying to get a response from. You know, play your own way and pick stuff up as you do so. The lack of any replies is deafening so far. Either HGEs and the Guardian unlocks are awesome fun to some people, or they're things that aren't part of the game and I'm hallucinating.

I'm one of those people to whom your refer because for me there is no grind. But I have to clarify that because I use the term 'grind' to be negative, to mean something that is hard, boring and something I don't want to be doing. By that definition, for me there is no grind.

Now, call it a 'time sink' and I'll agree that this exists as there is no negative connotation to that phrase unlike 'the grind' which implies a negative experience.

I enjoyed the engineering that I've done and I had a blast driving my SRV all over various planets to get Arsenic and that was before the changes brought in with 'beyond'. I also enjoyed hanging out and scanning the wakes of various ships to the the elusive scans that I needed for the modifications that I wanted.

Maybe I'm strange.....that's wrong as I know that I'm strange, but I enjoyed these things that some people think of so badly and I'm right with GG7 when he says that if you are finding the time sink in Elite to be a grind then perhaps Elite is not the game you should be playing.
 
This example is creative but flawed: football wouldn't work under this conditions, ED works very well if you ignore all the stuff that you don't like. And believe me, that's quite a lot in my case. This is basically my method to still enjoy the game. But to be honest, the whole game has meanwhile become some sort of a zen meditation basically wrapped around FA Off landing/docking, that's what I really enjoy. All the rest is icing on the cake (or some dog poo in some cases) but all secondary to me. That's I guess why I have a widely different perception of the game.

Flawed?

Did you see anything in my post relating to things people "don't like"?

Simple fact is, if you've played ED for more than an hour then you have done repetitive things (otherwise known as "grind") - just as you will have in almost any other game you've ever played.

The only difference between "gameplay" and "grind" is whether or not you're happy to do the thing or not.
Suggesting it can be avoided, though, is silly.

Just as it would be silly to tell a somebody playing football to avoid the energetic parts of the game.
 
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