I agree. Open is not PvP. Open is a choice to play the game with other players, it is not a PvP tag. I have always played in Open, it doesnt mean I go around shooting at other commanders.
I just don't get it..
- Thread starter Killasandara
- Start date
I agree. Open is not PvP. Open is a choice to play the game with other players, it is not a PvP tag. I have always played in Open, it doesnt mean I go around shooting at other commanders.
Open isn't PVP Cdr as all have previously stated.
I play in open mode for several reasons:
1. The chance for constructive interaction with fellow explorers
2. It's my choice
If other Cdr's feel the need to hunt and kill unarmed explorers with the sole intention of just ruining their months long expedition them that is not legitimate PVP activity in my opinion, it is griefing and it serves to only increase the ranks of private groups and soil the fun/variety explorers want in an open play environment.
If players want to kill each other then they should do it on their own servers like on most other mmogs and leave weapon less shieldless explorers to explore.
I personally detest and loathe any player who perpetuates this behaviour and hope FD address this in the future.
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Yes, and they were all wrong.
If you choose "open", then you WILL be attackable by other CMDRs. Understand it, Deal with it. Stop pretending it isn't the case.
At Sag A, you are in lawless space. No ingame police will come to your aid, anyone is "fair game".
There is only this "server" (probably a group of servers).
If you don't like PvP, turn it off. Otherwise, don't complain that people will act as they do. There is also a group mode in which you can play only with the people you consent with.
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It's all perfectly clear, it says you will encounter other pilots. I can't find the bit in there that says you should expect to be shot by them. You seem to be far too focussed on one tiny element of the game, maybe you should try some of the other parts?
I'm hoping this topic doesn't get moved to the Open/Group/Solo thread, because I don't want this to get lost in the noise there...
Are you saying that the only way and reason you play Elite: Dangerous is PvP?
If that's the case - I absolutely agree with your right to play the game the way you want, and I don't think anyone else would disagree with that.
I also fully agree that explorers should be prepared for the worst - i.e. for people like you who have absolutely ZERO regard for how anyone else plays the game.
That's why my exploration Cobra has shields, and pretty much the fastest Boost speed possible in that configuration - you'd have a very hard time catching up with me as I Brave Sir Robin out of there whilst you try to wear down my shields and I'm waiting to high-wake away
You may be surprised to read that again - I agree with you in that respect.
And here lies the fundamental problem with the design of the game;
The Exploration role is completely incompatible with the PvP role.
I don't blame you for your attitude. You're a PvP'er - you want "action" against other players, and I can understand that. Believe me I've spent months totally re-considering my attitude to your type of player - initially my thoughts were NOT pretty at all, but I took the time to mull all this over and I can empathise with the PvP mindset completely.
HOWEVER! You're so embedded into PvP gameplay, that I suspect it doesn't even cross your mind that perhaps other players want to play the game in other ways that don't involve Player versus Player (hostile gameplay - PvP), but more Player interacts with Player (non-hostile gameplay - PiwP). Perhaps you might want to do what I did, and sit down and try to empathise with the PiwP types just as I did for PvP types.
The PiwP types want to play in Open too. In fact, if you do a bit of research, FDEV intended Open to be mostly PiwP gameplay, with PvP gameplay to be "rare and meaningfull" - that last bit is an actual quote I believe from David Braben and I'll try to cite that if I can find it again.
This is why you're getting a hostile (heh) reception when you try to define Open as an automatic pure PvP mode. It really isn't. It's simply incorrect to define it as such. It was never intended to be such!
But again, that's mostly not your fault - it's FDEV's. FDEV have not thought this through properly. They've created a single Open mode, intending PvP to be "rare and meaningful", with PiwP to be the main method players encounter each other in Open.
I think that after almost a year after release, it should have become painfully clear - even to FDEV - that this thinking of how they wanted Open to turn out was naive at best, and now a lost cause.
I'll reiterate - the PvP gameplay is incompatible with the PiwP gameplay in Open. It is a game design problem. It's why we get threads like this.
Telling people to go to Solo or Group, is not the solution to the problem.
PiwP types need an Open mode in order to fully achieve the gameplay that they want, just as much as you/PvP types need a fully Open mode to achieve the gameplay you want.
The solution is not as simple as telling all non-PvP types to go frack off into another mode. It needs more thinking through from FDEV.
Are you saying that the only way and reason you play Elite: Dangerous is PvP?
If that's the case - I absolutely agree with your right to play the game the way you want, and I don't think anyone else would disagree with that.
I also fully agree that explorers should be prepared for the worst - i.e. for people like you who have absolutely ZERO regard for how anyone else plays the game.
That's why my exploration Cobra has shields, and pretty much the fastest Boost speed possible in that configuration - you'd have a very hard time catching up with me as I Brave Sir Robin out of there whilst you try to wear down my shields and I'm waiting to high-wake away
You may be surprised to read that again - I agree with you in that respect.
And here lies the fundamental problem with the design of the game;
The Exploration role is completely incompatible with the PvP role.
I don't blame you for your attitude. You're a PvP'er - you want "action" against other players, and I can understand that. Believe me I've spent months totally re-considering my attitude to your type of player - initially my thoughts were NOT pretty at all, but I took the time to mull all this over and I can empathise with the PvP mindset completely.
HOWEVER! You're so embedded into PvP gameplay, that I suspect it doesn't even cross your mind that perhaps other players want to play the game in other ways that don't involve Player versus Player (hostile gameplay - PvP), but more Player interacts with Player (non-hostile gameplay - PiwP). Perhaps you might want to do what I did, and sit down and try to empathise with the PiwP types just as I did for PvP types.
The PiwP types want to play in Open too. In fact, if you do a bit of research, FDEV intended Open to be mostly PiwP gameplay, with PvP gameplay to be "rare and meaningfull" - that last bit is an actual quote I believe from David Braben and I'll try to cite that if I can find it again.
This is why you're getting a hostile (heh) reception when you try to define Open as an automatic pure PvP mode. It really isn't. It's simply incorrect to define it as such. It was never intended to be such!
But again, that's mostly not your fault - it's FDEV's. FDEV have not thought this through properly. They've created a single Open mode, intending PvP to be "rare and meaningful", with PiwP to be the main method players encounter each other in Open.
I think that after almost a year after release, it should have become painfully clear - even to FDEV - that this thinking of how they wanted Open to turn out was naive at best, and now a lost cause.
I'll reiterate - the PvP gameplay is incompatible with the PiwP gameplay in Open. It is a game design problem. It's why we get threads like this.
Telling people to go to Solo or Group, is not the solution to the problem.
PiwP types need an Open mode in order to fully achieve the gameplay that they want, just as much as you/PvP types need a fully Open mode to achieve the gameplay you want.
The solution is not as simple as telling all non-PvP types to go frack off into another mode. It needs more thinking through from FDEV.
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It's an unfortunate fact that Zelos has a point (sort of). You go walking in certain neighbourhoods: you're going to get mugged. It's a real shame that Sag A* has become one such neighbourhood and I applaud any pilot willing to police the region. Sadly I've never got the hang of PVP and can't last more than a few seconds against the majority of players and so I, like many others, have been forced into playing almost exclusively in Mobius. This, of course, severely narrows down the number of people I'm likely to meet and precludes me from fighting anything other than NPCs, except in combat zones where I've already indicated I can't cut the mustard. Griefers, Gankers, whatever you're all called, while you're technically not breaking any rules, you're spoiling it for the rest of us and should be ashamed of yourselves.
Here's hoping that CQC gives you another outlet.
Here's hoping that CQC gives you another outlet.
I was talking to a CMDR (I fly with) yesterday who told me a guy had been destroyed at Sag A.
Turns out it was by a clan our clan used to fly with. Not my kinda gaming gratification, but to each their own.
There are some nasty people out there making there own rules of engagement.
Best bet is be prepared, or go private/solo.
So Sag A is the new chosen ground for such people, dedicated bunch aren't they?
I'll be aware of this for when I venture there.
Turns out it was by a clan our clan used to fly with. Not my kinda gaming gratification, but to each their own.
There are some nasty people out there making there own rules of engagement.
Best bet is be prepared, or go private/solo.
So Sag A is the new chosen ground for such people, dedicated bunch aren't they?
I'll be aware of this for when I venture there.
Isn't the real issue here the moral dilemma about griefing? Just as there is nothing in the manual saying "you will be shot at," there is nothing that says they cannot take those actions so why would FD "fix" this optional play style? I enjoy griefers as much as I do mosquitos, but they open up gameplay styles like CMDR Metta and others to hunt and protect. It allows for entire player groups dedicated to escort services. This isn't my cup of tea but it just seems to be the way things are right now according to FD's interpretation of "open mode".
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There is a high probability that another CMDR will shoot at you at some point. When choosing to play in Open as I do, and knowing there is no PvP "flag" ability, PvP becomes just another part of the "dangerous" part of the game. My PvP "flag", which I admit to using when returning with so much exploration data, is to jump into Solo for the end portion of the trip.
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At this time, the only way to have a traditional PvP "flag" which only allows non-hostile player interaction without switching game modes, is to play in a private group that does not allow unsanctioned PvP.
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There is a high probability that another CMDR will shoot at you at some point. When choosing to play in Open as I do, and knowing there is no PvP "flag" ability, PvP becomes just another part of the "dangerous" part of the game. My PvP "flag", which I admit to using when returning with so much exploration data, is to jump into Solo for the end portion of the trip.
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At this time, the only way to have a traditional PvP "flag" which only allows non-hostile player interaction without switching game modes, is to play in a private group that does not allow unsanctioned PvP.
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Well, I think some ship balancing could help. Cobra is currently quite cabable of running away. Perhaps if other explorer ships could be balanced in such a way it would discourage wannabe gankers. But really, it is crazy to venture so far in combat fitted ship to spend days waiting for explorer to shoot. And what for? Bragging rights? Not even the lousy killmail as in the EvE. I know I will now fit my Cobra to run fast.
Zelos has a point in that PvP can be a part of open. That also brings with it involuntary PvP. There is nothing in the game's rulebook that says you can't act like an immature kid looking to spoil other people's fun, so you should expect that out of all the players who play in open, there will be a couple of brats who do that sort of thing. Frankly, I just explore in solo, not like I'll run into many people, if anyone, out there in the black - apart from the odd griefer at some of the more touristy spots.
That's how it is now, but I wish it wasn't like that. I want a mature community I can interact with without the risk of losing months of progress. As much as PvP'ers have the privilege to play the game their way, I want to play it my way. Perhaps I want to have some cool interaction with fellow explorers without dealing with griefers. Which is why I think FD need to rethink some of the policies. If I was in their shoes, in the interest of fairness I would announce that behavior such as griefing at Sag A will be bannable from here on now. I'm not saying ban all pirates or anything like that - if you're hauling cargo you have to expect that you'll run into pirates of both the human and NPC variety - but the extreme cases are people who camp at Sag A, targeting unarmed ships that probably spent a lot of game time getting there. It's the extreme of bad behavior and we can do without it. In general, removing players who do that would produce a nicer community. Yes, people right now have the right act like a-holes by preying on unarmed, often unshielded explorers, but honestly, this is a game, not a democratic society, so my question is - why should anyone retain that right? Take it away and improve the community.
That's how it is now, but I wish it wasn't like that. I want a mature community I can interact with without the risk of losing months of progress. As much as PvP'ers have the privilege to play the game their way, I want to play it my way. Perhaps I want to have some cool interaction with fellow explorers without dealing with griefers. Which is why I think FD need to rethink some of the policies. If I was in their shoes, in the interest of fairness I would announce that behavior such as griefing at Sag A will be bannable from here on now. I'm not saying ban all pirates or anything like that - if you're hauling cargo you have to expect that you'll run into pirates of both the human and NPC variety - but the extreme cases are people who camp at Sag A, targeting unarmed ships that probably spent a lot of game time getting there. It's the extreme of bad behavior and we can do without it. In general, removing players who do that would produce a nicer community. Yes, people right now have the right act like a-holes by preying on unarmed, often unshielded explorers, but honestly, this is a game, not a democratic society, so my question is - why should anyone retain that right? Take it away and improve the community.
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I think overall, it makes the game more exciting.
If there is no danger and no chance of being killed, I think it would be rather dull.
Would I like it if it happened to me after several gaming hours.....no I wouldn't, but it does get the blood flowing.
I also play with that in mind, if I see a player on the scanner, I am ready to rump.
If there is no danger and no chance of being killed, I think it would be rather dull.
Would I like it if it happened to me after several gaming hours.....no I wouldn't, but it does get the blood flowing.
I also play with that in mind, if I see a player on the scanner, I am ready to rump.
I don't think that level of interaction is actually allowed.....
Not my best line, don't type and fly lol.
Tbh I'm amazed that some Cdrs here are attempting to justify this sort of behaviour, the behaviour the majority agree is particularly abhorrent. There is no honour in hunting and killing explorers.
I look forward to returning to the bubble and taking my hunter out and vaporising Cdrs who feel the need to harass and grief unarmed players.
No hunt in hunting the unarmed and the defenceless.
No excitement in killing an explorer who has been diligently gathering data for months
Lots of gratification in hunting pond life who do the above and blowing them to small chunks of former human being.
Open play should be policed better. You can't ever justify hunting explorers and to be honest I don't care how certain Cdrs feel about that sentiment.
It's just wrong. The fact we have people like Cdr Metta policing the core is proof of that.
I look forward to returning to the bubble and taking my hunter out and vaporising Cdrs who feel the need to harass and grief unarmed players.
No hunt in hunting the unarmed and the defenceless.
No excitement in killing an explorer who has been diligently gathering data for months
Lots of gratification in hunting pond life who do the above and blowing them to small chunks of former human being.
Open play should be policed better. You can't ever justify hunting explorers and to be honest I don't care how certain Cdrs feel about that sentiment.
It's just wrong. The fact we have people like Cdr Metta policing the core is proof of that.
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Oh don't get me wrong - there is no justification, in-game or out, for killing harmless explorers.
It's club-sealing. Just Because.
No justification for it at all.
That's why I'm saying there's a game design problem in just having an Open mode where PvP roles (and player-killers) can freely mix with and destroy Explorer-types with zero consequences for the PK'ers.
FDEV - you need to rethink Open.
Such anger and vitriol only serves to illustrate your point on this matter. You clearly like to justify the hunting of explorers.
Turn it down a tad son, and don't tell me what to do, that's my day job.
I'm not complaining, I'm contributing to an intelligent discussion you appear not to grasp the fundamental tenant of, that being how utterly wrong it is to hunt unarmed explorers.
This is an explorer forum, you obviously have lost your way, I advise you go back to the main menu and look under dangerous discussion.
Oh and incidentally I look forward to bumping into you when I'm in my fully armed ship when I return from my open play expedition to the core.
Then I can kill you legitimately.
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I think this game wants you to "Blaze your own trail in cutthroat galaxy". Its cutthroat allright if someone is out there to gank you, isn't it. I personally would never do it and I don't look forward to such encounters. But players have to take responsibility for the content thats in this kind of game and perhaps they can find solution. Or just play solo.
I'm not angry. But I know that things are sometimes hard to understand for people who don't have English as a primary language.
Again, you misunderstood. I was just pointing out the game mechanics for you.
BTW, I currently only have an Eagle outfitted with weapons, all other ships have none. And I almost never fly in open.
You are complaining that other players attack you when you actively CONSENT that they do.
Cdr I wasn't ever complaining, however I am now. Stand by.
I'm making an official complaint against you for the following reasons:
1. Your racist language. Yes my primary language is not English and I take your implication of it not being my primary language as racist and antisocial behaviour.
2. Your aggressive and openly belligerent attitude towards me is again antisocial, belittling and ultimately offensive
I take offence to you. I'm officially submitting a ticket against you.
I hope that is clear enough English for you to comprehend.
I'm making an official complaint against you for the following reasons:
1. Your racist language. Yes my primary language is not English and I take your implication of it not being my primary language as racist and antisocial behaviour.
2. Your aggressive and openly belligerent attitude towards me is again antisocial, belittling and ultimately offensive
I take offence to you. I'm officially submitting a ticket against you.
I hope that is clear enough English for you to comprehend.
I am sorry but there is nothing insulting in Zelos' posts. If you take offence easily then perhaps you shouldn't be confronting your opinions with those of someone else. They may differ, you know.