He's never claimed 4 million, and funnily enough Mobius himself, while he has published the number of accounts, has never to my knowledge advocated for a PVE server. Mobius was one group until it hit 20k people and everything went to crap. At that point things had to be split up And, if I remember correctly, Frontier itself found out the limit of players a PG can handle. Mobius and his admins also go through and clean out accounts periodically so that new people can get into one of the groups that is near full. So I'm not sure what his "tricky call" is.
Modes I know I'm beating a dead horse, but we need official PvE servers
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He's never claimed 4 million, and funnily enough Mobius himself, while he has published the number of accounts, has never to my knowledge advocated for a PVE server. Mobius was one group until it hit 20k people and everything went to crap. At that point things had to be split up And, if I remember correctly, Frontier itself found out the limit of players a PG can handle. Mobius and his admins also go through and clean out accounts periodically so that new people can get into one of the groups that is near full. So I'm not sure what his "tricky call" is.
Oops, did I get careless with my zeros and commas? Fair enough, I'm not going to split hairs over one exaggerated figure over another.
I'm well aware of the group's history; I still have a membership with the original.
So how exactly does Mr Mobius and his admins clean out accounts? How do they tell who inactive, or since they last logged in?
Doesn't the new 3.3 PG screen show last activity? Or was that only for friends?
And the newer mobius PGs like Eurasia where I'm in are far from full afaik.
Regarding the ramming: I was once in a Federal Dropship with 4.000 hull and a fast recharge bi-weave when I was venturing into open
one of the first times, of course I was in an anarchy and of course there was known Griefer/PvPer (choose yourself
) Shooting me up as soon as I nearedthe landing pad. And guess what, if you don't keep calm and simply land under fire, but instead run like a headless chicken like me, you die
But that is not easy (the keeping calm bit, not the landing bit), and takes some experience. Now I just laugh it off, but then, inexperienced as I was, I died.
Totally needless. It happens. If you like that sort of threat, go open. If you don't like it, choose PG/solo. As simple as that.
Oh, and don't speed. Never. Ever. Seriously.
Only for Friends, unfortunately. They need to open that up to Private Group owners, it would help large private groups a great deal.
Most people who join a Mobius Group, tend to also send a friend request to Mobius.
Which then would make sense of the 40,000 figure, as he can just check his friends list.
I've always figured that's how he got the number TBH. Because there is no way he could know an accurate count from the group numbers.
And their own forums only have 13,760 members. So that's no good either.
Edit;
Is Mobius the Elite version of MySpace Tom???
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Re: Mobius and the "need" for official PvE servers.
A few years ago I worked (briefly) for a relatively well-known "dad blogger", who was launching a for-profit website that he figured would be successful for two reasons: 1) he had enjoyed at times viral traffic on his main blog and 2) his blog's Facebook had gathered more than a million likes. He enjoyed touting this "million likes" endlessly as a means of both promoting his own popularity and as a foundation in his effort to construct an online community. I and a small team would research and create content for his new website and then be paid according to its traffic, which he was certain would do well based on that "million likes" number.
The site crashed and burned.
It turned out that just because a certain number of people liked his content enough to click a "like" button one time, doesn't mean that that same quantity of people were willing to return consistently to sample whatever he was offering. The same lesson in impressive vs actual numbers, in my view, holds true for the Mobius PG. Just because forty thousand (or perhaps more by now- it's been awhile since I checked) people have at some point joined that PvE-only PG doesn't mean that there is an active, eager community of that number who are crying out for a PvE-only version of the game. Even more telling telling was when Frontier divulged that open remains the most popular mode by a significant margin.
There is simply no business or lore justification for dedicated PvE servers.
A few years ago I worked (briefly) for a relatively well-known "dad blogger", who was launching a for-profit website that he figured would be successful for two reasons: 1) he had enjoyed at times viral traffic on his main blog and 2) his blog's Facebook had gathered more than a million likes. He enjoyed touting this "million likes" endlessly as a means of both promoting his own popularity and as a foundation in his effort to construct an online community. I and a small team would research and create content for his new website and then be paid according to its traffic, which he was certain would do well based on that "million likes" number.
The site crashed and burned.
It turned out that just because a certain number of people liked his content enough to click a "like" button one time, doesn't mean that that same quantity of people were willing to return consistently to sample whatever he was offering. The same lesson in impressive vs actual numbers, in my view, holds true for the Mobius PG. Just because forty thousand (or perhaps more by now- it's been awhile since I checked) people have at some point joined that PvE-only PG doesn't mean that there is an active, eager community of that number who are crying out for a PvE-only version of the game. Even more telling telling was when Frontier divulged that open remains the most popular mode by a significant margin.
There is simply no business or lore justification for dedicated PvE servers.
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The same can be said for an Open-only PvP only mode *cough*
It could, although irrelevant.
They way I see it, it is far from irrelevant. If a PVE server is not needed or useless, the same would be for Open Only. The only difference is one designed to let people play their own way and does not want to remove the other modes just be added, and the other wants all modes gone but Open and everyone forced to play a certain way. Yet I have been told time and time again that wanting a PVE server, wanting not advocating, means that I am being selfish. Which confuses me a LOT as apparently the speaker of such words has no clue what selfish is. As for your question, I can't answer for Mobius or the admins. I do know they have lists of everyone, and I do know they have removed people, I don't know how they go about finding which to remove.
So your argument is, in this completely non-contextually relevant example this guy I worked for did not make money on his like-botted website so Mobius membership is bad evidence for a desire for an open PVE experience.
The logic behind your argument is utterly broken.
People choose Mobius (not bots, not friends, not solicited dupes) because they want a PVE alternative to the current PVP open.
As far as a business decision for PVE Open, I really think you should look at EVERY OTHER AAA MMO and see how they handle the partitioning of PVP and PVE experiences. ED player population is far smaller than those offerings, so referencing the mastery of the business decision making by eliminating the PVE open an accessible experience is simply uninformed.
Suggesting there is no lore-based example of a no PVP environment is dead on its face given that solo and PG modes exist.
Now for my sample size one anecdote.
I have three accounts, I participate in Open, PG and Solo on all 3. When at CGs, I participate in a Mobius variant (One has access to Mobius, the second Mobius PVE, and the last Mobius PVE America). The second two accounts are locked out of Mobius because of the PG cap, the third is locked out of Mobius PVE because of the size cap. When any of my commanders participates in a CG, I see the same faces over and over and over (representatives from each server).
My perception is not that the actual active membership in each of these PGs is very small, my perception is that the active members within each PG that participates in CGs is likely small, or that I am instanced with folks that are members of the given PGs that have similar pings / geographic networking profiles. There is a double filtration of an automatically smaller source population as I perceive it.
In summation...
Fundamentally, participation in the Open and PG options identify the desire of players to have a social experience.
There is clear evidence, both from the burgeoning Mobius populations, and from other MMOs that many players desire a PVE social experience.
The truly limiting factor here is not whether Open PVE makes sense, or will it find participants willing to enjoy it. Open PVE would be extremely popular if it were available.
The limiting factor is the capacity of FDEV to execute it.
C&P is a disastrous band-aid that has zero impact on PK behavior - yet it's inspiration and marketing was about making the role of system security and legal consequences be more reasonable within the game society.
Given that FDEV failed to execute C&P effectively, I expect they have an internal understanding that creating an Open PVE environment is simply beyond their ability to produce.
I am reminded of the initial quirks of the Ultima Online environment that the developers had not anticipated. Players killed everything, trampling over the built in ecology. I am certain that FDEV expected that players would police players, without an understanding about how p2p coupled with module engineering, combat-logging, and motivated PKrs would make this impossible.
Though Open PVE would be great, it will never happen for ED. The best we could hope for is a revision of the PG cap so that all of the Mobius flavors could be merged.
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It looks like everyone is getting what they want under the current setup, and so my point stands. (well, not everyone. There will always be mode zealots of various stripes who refuse to see reason)
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Bob Lighthouse
Banned
When all PGs together consist of a minority of the game population, it can't be called clear evidence nor burgeoning anything.
I also suspect a fair share of them are in there under false premises, namely all the fear mongering about open.
I also suspect a fair share of them are in there under false premises, namely all the fear mongering about open.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Yes, all sorts of nonsensical things can be said.
Same goes for outright falsehoods.
Some observation, that!
Oh I think it might be fair to say that the restricted PG size means that obtaining diverse (many, many players) PVE social interaction is more difficult than it would be if there was an authentic PVE Open environment. If the PG cap were to be lifted to 500k for example, I think we'd see a pretty spectacular PVE environment. I honestly think that FDEV should be paying the Mobius team for the services they are currently providing.
Hi Bob
If Mobius populations were static and no additional shards needed to be created, I would concede that burgeoning would be the wrong word. New shards are being created and populated so burgeoning is appropriate I think.
I have never encountered fear mongering in game in any Mobius PG. Just people that want to do coop stuff.
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If you aren't getting the experience you want with a ten-thousand person cap, what makes you think you'll get it with a half-million cap?
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Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Hi Bob
If Mobius populations were static and no additional shards needed to be created, I would concede that burgeoning would be the wrong word. New shards are being created and populated so burgeoning is appropriate I think.
I have never encountered fear mongering in game in any Mobius PG. Just people that want to do coop stuff.
There's nothing to suggest they are growing faster than the game population at large.
It's a minority segment of the population no matter how you slice it.
The fear mongering happens outside of mobius, otherwise how could it drive traffic there?
It happens right here all the time.
"OMG, open is full of griefers galore! You should just sign up to mobius!"
lol
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The cap is much higher than 10k I think.
You ask a fair question, and I do have an answer for that.
ED is a fun game, but not a ubiquitous game. Let me make up some numbers to try to illustrate my point. Suppose in all of California (close to 40,000,000 people) there are 5000 people that play ED. Of those, lets say 1000 want a PVE multiplayer play space (a mere 20% of the overall population). Those 1000 are subdivided into 3 PGs due to the overall PG cap. So at any given time, within the bubble, there is a very small chance of seeing other like-minded folks in game (as a result of instancing prioritization and ping). If the PG cap were increased, so that all 1000 commanders were available to meet in the same PG, the odds of seeing another commander would go up significantly.
Clearly these are completely wrong numbers, but I think you see my point - a larger PG cap means a greater likelihood I'd see someone that shares the PVE open mindset.
Oh I never said the PVE Mobius population was increasing faster than the rate at which the game population was increasing. That would be really interesting to know though
As far as the forum is concerned, you and I both know the forum population is the tiniest of slivers of the overall game population.
The whole "I got ganked" thread cycle is so predictable isn't it?
1) I got ganked.
2) Git gud kid.
3) Is ganking allowed?
4) Yes. Rub some dirt on it and grow up kid.
5) It's not fair, their ships are so much better than mine.
6) That's open you loser, got to solo or pg you punk.
7) Those gankers are morally bankrupt meanies, can't someone stop them?
8) Hey there is a big pg where people try not to allow pk behavior, it's called Mobius. Check it out.
I have seen that exchange so many times in this forum. It's not like there is something unpredictable about it. I don't think it's fair to say that the Mobius guys put the fear in the newbie poster, the fear has already been put in them by the ganker.
It is definitely fair to say that someone who has never been ganked, comes to the forum and sees the plethora of whiner - "I got ganked" threads would conclude that it is a game issue. I don't think it's fair to say that Mobius created the issue, or perpetuates the "myth" of ganking.
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