I wanna ask a huge favor of the game devs for the nonbinary community

[Robert Maynard]

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[VR StarLightPL]

Oh look, another hilarious, original joke about gender. Get some new material.

Yes it was a wry joke. However if I did that on one of "noun sensitive individuals" it would be a grave offence. Kinda like black people throw the n-word left and right among themselves, but become hostile when someone outside of their circle tries to use it the same way. It's so ridiculous that it became a running joke.

Coming from a nazi occupied country, I can give you an example - propagating nazi ideology is illegal in Poland. End of story. No throwing around nazi ideology for fun. It's serious business and people do go to jail for stunts like these.

If you don't your own little mistake of calling that particular NPC "he" it makes you look like a hypocrite, or it shows that maybe it's not that of a big deal that you make it out to be.

Until a few years ago they existed as a tiny percent of the population. Now it's growing exponentially.

I'd say that statistics are still the same, only representation has changed. Reminds me of other vocal minorities on this forum.

There is one more thing I want to add, and that is the actual meaning of the word "tolerance". It means to "patiently endure", so I don't have to be thrilled by the idea of calling a biologically looking man a woman. I can honour it but it's really awkward for me. And you need to tolerate that, too. It goes both ways, always.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

If people want to believe sex (male/female) isn't a biological imperative and instead there's an ever-growing list of "genders", that is their right. They just shouldn't expect everyone is going to go along with that viewpoint without debate.

Jigs, if you met someone who you considered ugly in face. that most people you spoke to, considered them ugly in face, and you heard that ugly person say one day 'Gosh, I feel so darned beautiful today', would you feel the need to challenge them on that? Would you have to set them straight? Or would you politely say something, at no cost to you, keep your views to yourself and move on?

This is just a matter of manners, politeness, being respectful. You can indeed hold whatever views you want, but you can also, for the sake of being a decent human being, respect others views of themselves, comply and you have lost nothing, in fact, you have probably gained something.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I saw some Content Creator/Influencer on a video channel, he is very clearly a man and identifies as such. He puts his pronouns in his profile, when asked why, he said to normalise the behaviour of doing so. So that those that may not fall into our our 'stereotype pigeon hole' do not feel like outsiders when they do. That is a liberal guy, that is inviting, that is working to make all people feel comfortable.

Yes and also so the Twitter mob didn't "cancel" him and destroy his business for not being woke enough.

 

[Sasha Terra]

That's my point - in this game how your avatar looks is the only clue as to how to address you and this can cause the same issues as in real life - I don't think OP wears a tag "I'm non-binary, refer to me as They" in RL.

Probably not on the regular, but in some contexts (eg fan conventions) it's quite common for people of all genders to have badges for exactly that.

I mean, for some people roleplaying is more important than presenting their RL selves to other players. They will tell you if they want you to call them this, or that (not necesserily gender specific pronouns but Lord of Darkness for example) and it's not a problem for them - it's part of the fun.

This seems like projecting very specific personal issue into the game and turning it into a problem, while it's really not.

Again, I'm not the OP, and they and I have different takes on this. I don't think there's a problem, just a possible opportunity for a small improvement in representation. It shouldn't be a big deal, and it feels uncomfortable to me that some posters here (not you) are taking this as a moment to fight some unnecessary culture war. I don't think a perfect answer to these issues exists; I just think it's useful to have a look at what's possible. And we should be able to treat each other with respect while we do that.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Quick grammar note here: CMDR is gender-neutral, but is a title, not a pronoun.

(It could be used as a pronoun and perhaps by the 34th century it will, but it'd look a bit odd translated literally to 21st century readers - you'd get sentences like "CMDR's the most notorious pirate in the system" or "CMDR wants to trade")

True, but i and others seem to assume that is what the OP was talking about since the game has no gender specific pronouns in game so there is no need for gender neutral either.

Unless OP wants to request both gender specific and gender neutral pronouns are added to the game???

 

[Sasha Terra]

Yes and also so the Twitter mob didn't "cancel" him and destroy his business for not being woke enough.

You have no idea the level of aggression people get for being openly trans or non-binary on Twitter. I really appreciate the solidarity of cis people making small construcive gestures like the one that you're discussing here. There is no unified 'Twitter mob' (thank God), but there sure are some groups out there who think that using social media for mob 'justice' is the way to go, and trans people are mostly the victims, not the perpetrators of such attacks. I know of business that have been destroyed by it.

 

[Go'Gen]

Well,
since my reply (on first page) was deleted and, to my big surprise, I've got a warning from moderator for "flaming", I'm hereby informing you that I won't be posting anywhere on this forums any time soon.
I'll continue to read News and CG announcements only.
Fly safe, Cmdrs.
o7

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I'm out as well. Not gonna get a forum ban for stating facts. Facts aren't hate or whatever.

 

[Florenus]

Again, I'm not the OP, and they and I have different takes on this. I don't think there's a problem, just a possible opportunity for a small improvement in representation.

Fair enough. I can't think of any reason why it would bother me if it was done in some subtle, unintrusive way, although I also think it's really, really (really) unnecessary.
I would prefer to have f.ex nightvision indicator - equally miniscule change and QOL improvement that would actually affect gameplay but we can't get

(at the end I used gender specific female emoticon, while I'm a male, to prove how it makes no difference )

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

The facts are, some people do not fit in society's neat little pigeon holes. To contest that, is going against the facts.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

It's like the departures lounge at Heathrow in here.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

10 points if someone can tell my why 'Angus' is relevant

 

[Sasha Terra]

Fair enough. I can't think of any reason why it would bother me if it was done in some subtle, unintrusive way, although I also think it's really, really (really) unnecessary.
I would prefer to have f.ex nightvision indicator - equally miniscule change and QOL improvement that would actually affect gameplay but we can't get

(at the end I used gender specific female emoticon, while I'm a male, to prove how it makes no difference )

On the one hand, minority representation is one of those things which matters most to a small group, but has an overall social benefit if it's done well.

On the other hand, the thing I want most from the game is a more diverse range of space station and megaship models. Or possibly some more purchasable spaceships. Or landing in dense atmospheres...

 

[Brrokk]

Just a few notes about traditional English:-

"They" isn't always plural, it can be validly used for an individual. Shakespeare used it like this.

In English it's valid to say "he/him" when you don't know. Shakespeare did that too. Females have their own form "she" but males don't have exclusive use of "he". The same happens in most European languages.

Personally I so far avoid using the word "gender" as it originally applied only to non-living things (although usage is now widening as we know). There's no scientific reason to think living beings have a non-material "gender" as well as their identifiable physical characteristics, and I think implying that they do causes confusion.

 

[Florenus]

On the other hand, the thing I want most from the game is a more diverse range of space station and megaship models.

+1

 

[Gully Foyle]

I realize that I am a bit of a grammar precisionist, but I find the idea of usurping They for a gender neutral term is ridiculously arrogant. They is a plural form, so, in this case, it sounds like the Royal We, which is rather presumptuous unless you are claiming to be a sovereign

Yes but you expressed a wish to have more representation. I'm still not sure what that would look like in Elite as you aren't explaining yourself....

The Cmdr did. A proper rainbow decal is a great idea and should even be free.

 

[Gully Foyle]

That's my point - in this game how your avatar looks is the only clue as to how to address you and this can cause the same issues as in real life - I don't think OP wears a tag "I'm non-binary, refer to me as They" in RL.

I mean, for some people roleplaying is more important than presenting their RL selves to other players. They will tell you if they want you to call them this, or that (not necesserily gender specific pronouns but Lord of Darkness for example) and it's not a problem for them - it's part of the fun.

This seems like projecting very specific personal issue into the game and turning it into a problem, while it's really not.

The OP can ask in chat to be addressed as wanted, but no change in game is required as Cmdr is gender neutral. The ability to identify with optional decals perhaps should be.

 

[VR andysonofbob]

If you can carry it off:

That actually made me laugh out loud.
Brilliant

See?
Effortless.

 

[Gully Foyle]

I'm out as well. Not gonna get a forum ban for stating facts. Facts aren't hate or whatever.

I love facts:
“

The Six Most Common Karyotypes​

The six biological karyotype sexes that do not result in death to the fetus are:

• X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner’s )
• XX – Most common form of female
• XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
• XY – Most common form of male
• XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people
• XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births

When you consider that there are 7,000,000,000 alive on the planet, there are almost assuredly tens of millions of people who are not male or female. Many times, these people are unaware of their true sex. It’s interesting to note that everyone assumes that they, personally, are XY or XX. One study in Great Britain showed that 97 out of 100 people who were XYY had no idea. They thought they were a traditional male and had few signs otherwise.”

The 6 Most Common Biological Sexes in Humans

Humans have six different biological sexes, with XX and XY being the two most common.

www.joshuakennon.com