Nice of Will to chime in here and basically give us all an open invitation to contact him via discord, and chase him up if we don't get a reply - wonder if hes going to regret that in the future.
Call me cynical, but I suspect that the that the answer to Jonuss' question, what is the major major change between 2016 and now that stymied the icarus cup might have been cheating/hackers, this is something which FDev seem unable/unwilling to take control of. So, if they continued to bury their heads in the sand, and let the cheaters run amok, we could have the thorny issue of a hacker scooping up the silverware/hologram and a whole maelstrom of bad press afterwards. Having been around the game for four years now, from what I can gather, hacking can only be dealt with if a person is reported with video evidence. An event like the Icarus cup will get some press attention, and I'm sure no-one wants it to be marred with controversy if some little punk spoiled it by cheating.
The only way I could see to 100% prevent that happening would be to run a special client for the icarus cup that didn't use peir to peir but direct to a dedicated server, and such a thing is probably a huge technical stumbling block that outweighs the benefit to the franchise that the press coverage associated the icarus cup.
Cheating may very well be part of the problem, but there's a ton of other stuff too. It's not just cheat prevention that's missing.
There's no lobby, no way to create a private game. You can't run a tournament with the random match maker. There's also no spectator mode. These two features would be absolutely necessary if you wanted to host a tournament.
For the Icarus Cup to become a reality, CQC would need development time and that's what Frontier doesn't have an excess of.
Cheating may very well be part of the problem, but there's a ton of other stuff too. It's not just cheat prevention that's missing.
There's no lobby, no way to create a private game. You can't run a tournament with the random match maker. There's also no spectator mode. These two features would be absolutely necessary if you wanted to host a tournament.
For the Icarus Cup to become a reality, CQC would need development time and that's what Frontier doesn't have an excess of.
Yet somehow every six months the community cobbles together a PvP league that works flawlessly, hosted in PG with referee's who livestream it. The Icarus Cup wasn't ever implied to be a new special game mode or addition to CQC, rather just a dev supported event.
The fundamental problem with holding an official worldwide PvP event is that it would expose the extent of development required to turn post-2.1 ED into something resembling a world-class multiplayer combat game.
Either Frontier would have to impose and enforce a whole series of arbitrary rules, which would be an admission that the game as currently sold is not usable in serious competition, or they would have to undertake the massive task of a wholesale combat rebalance.
If Frontier did neither (just said, 'here’s the game we sell, so play it') then any competition would be a laugh-out-loud festival of broken tactics, not least 4-0-2 long range hitscan reverski, healing beams, aimbot missiles and stacked gimballed kinetic.
Take a look at the regular Patch Notes for any major multiplayer title. Heck, here is just one random set from TWW2 and that isn’t even remotely near being a top-tier PvP game. I’m extracting just one segment of just one patch in the following spoiler:
Spell and Unit Balancing
General
Rebalanced all vortex, breath, wind and explosion abilities, as a bug that was making them use a reduced radius for area of effect was fixed
Summoning Changes
Summoned units are no longer unbreakable. Undead summons now also crumble in addition to unbinding
Adjusted power cost of some summon spells
Redesigned unbinding to apply for a set duration, with a first phase of light damage and a short second phase of lethal damage. Now summons will expire after a set and predictable duration
New Unbinding Times and Power Costs
Tomb Blade of Arkhan: 82 seconds
Realm of Souls: 92 second
Transformation of Kadon (Manticore): 96 seconds, 13 power cost
Transformation of Kadon (Varghulf): 77 seconds, 13 power cost
Denizens of the Deep: 71 seconds, 12 power cost
Drowned Dead: 88 seconds
Captain Roth’s Moondial: 88 seconds
Drowned Dead Upgraded: 121 seconds
Ghosts of the Past: 93 seconds
Savage Dominion: 101 seconds, 15 power cost
Maternal Instinct: 180 seconds
Awaken from the Grave: 86 seconds
Awaken from the Grave Upgraded: 117 seconds
Staff of Corruption: 91 seconds
Spirit-Essence of Chaos: 91 seconds
Feral Cold Ones: 80 seconds
Raise Dead: 134 seconds. Cooldown increased to 39 seconds. Cost to 4
Raise Dead Upgraded: 80 seconds. Cooldown increased to 39 seconds. Cost to 6
Vermintide: 67 seconds
Menace Below: 67 seconds
Pestilent Birth: 73 seconds
Eagle Sanctuary: 78 seconds
Rats Emerge: 99 seconds
Lord of Undeath: 139 seconds
Command the Unliving: 85 seconds
Command the Unliving Upgraded: 77 seconds
Units
Dark Elves
Hydra: +10 armour
Chill of Sontar: +10 armour
Kharibdyss: +10 armour
Knights of the Ebon Claw: -2 melee attack, -1 melee defence, -50 cost
Crone Hellebron (foot, dark steed, manticore): +3 melee defence
Cold One Knights: -2 melee attack, -1 melee defence
Cold One Dread Knights: -2 melee attack, -1 melee defence
Cold One Chariot: -10 charge bonus, -2 melee defence
Khainite Assassin: added Vanguard deployment, +2 run speed. Projectile now applies poison contact effect.
Volkmar the Grim – War Altar of Sigmar: +15 bonus vs infantry, -50 mp cost
Helblaster Volley Gun: increased accuracy.
Witch Hunters: Accusation is now a hex. No longer deals direct damage. Instead reduces armour by 30, melee defence by 26 and missile resistance by 22 for 35 seconds.
Steam Tank: +2 melee attack.
Greenskins
Fixed animation issue that was increasing Wyvern flying melee attack interval by seconds.
Grimgor: +400 health
Skarsnik: +400 health
Giant: +3 run speed
Doom Divers: +115 ap projectile damage, -105 projectile damage.
Glade Riders (Hagbane Tips): +3 ap projectile damage, -3 base projectile damage, deals magical damage.
Glade Guard: -50 cost
Glade Guard (Hagbane Tips): +3 ap projectile damage, -3 base projectile damage, deals magical damage.
Wardens of Cythral: +50 cost
Waywatchers: +1 base reload time.
Lizardmen
Primal Instincts: Activation threshold reduced to 20% health left. Now also buffs charge bonus by +16% and melee attack by +8.
Horned Ones: -2 melee attack, -1 melee defence
Cold One Spear Riders: -2 melee attack, -1 melee defence
Cold One Riders: -2 melee attack, -1 melee defence
Kroq-gar – foot: +136 health, added charge defense vs large, +8 bonus vs large.
Kroq-gar – Cold/Horned One: +8 bonus vs large.
Skink Chief on Terradon: now has a stronger drop rocks projectile. Increased mass for Terradon.
Skink Priest on Terradon: now has a stronger drop rocks projectile. Increased mass for Terradon.
Bretonnia
Pegasus Knights: +3 charge bonus
Royal Pegasus Knights: +3 charge bonus
Men-at-arms (Polearms): -25 mp cost, +1 bonus vs large.
Beastslayers of Bastogne: +5 bonus vs large
Companions of Quenelles: -100 mp cost
Skaven
Skaven Assassin: added Vanguard Deployment. Now uses Assassin’s Trophy instead of Queek’s unique Trophy Heads ability. -50 cost.
Summoned Plague Monks: corrected entity health to match Plague Monks.
Warriors of Chaos
Sigvald: +5 melee attack
Forsaken: +2 charge bonus
Daemonspew: +2 charge bonus
Marauder Horsemasters: +2 ammo
Marauder Horsemen (javelins): -2 ammo
Chaos Spawn: +2 melee attack
Wyrdspawn: +2 melee attack
Swords of Chaos: -100 mp cost
Giant: +3 run speed
Norsca
Marauder Horsemasters: now uses same melee weapon as Chaos Horsemasters. +2 ammo
Marauder Horsemen (javelins): -2 ammo
Armoured Skin Wolves: -50 cost
Maws of Savagery: -50 cost
Feral Mammoth: +100 cost
War Mammoth (Warshrine): -100 cost
Giant: +3 run speed
Beastmen
Minotaurs (basic version): +2 melee attack
Chaos Spawn: +2 melee attack
Giant: +3 run speed
Abilities
Primal Instincts: Reduced the hitpoint percentage at which rampage triggers from 50% to 20% When triggered, the affected unit also benefits from +8 melee attacks and +16% charge bonus
Shem’s Burning Gaze: +20 explosion damage, -5 ap explosion damage, -2 projectile damage, -7 bonus vs large per projectile
Shem’s Burning Gaze Upgraded: +40 explosion damage, +40 ap explosion damage, -4 base projectile damage, -11 bonus vs large per projectile
Hand of Gods: +20 explosion damage, -5 ap explosion damage, -2 projectile damage, -7 bonus vs large per projectile
Vindictive Glare: -95 explosion damage, +25 ap explosion damage, -15 ap projectile damage, 30 base missile damage, -22 bonus vs large per projectile. Power cost to 4
Vindictive Glare Upgraded: -95 explosion damage, +25 ap explosion damage, -15 ap projectile damage, 30 base missile damage, -22 bonus vs large per projectile. Power cost to 8
Gaze of Mork: -95 explosion damage, +25 ap explosion damage, -15 ap projectile damage, 30 base missile damage, -22 bonus vs large per projectile.
Gaze of Mork Upgraded: -95 explosion damage, +25 ap explosion damage, -15 ap projectile damage, 30 base missile damage, -22 bonus vs large per projectile. Increased velocity to help projectiles reach at max range
Gaze of Nagash: +30 explosion damage, -15 ap explosion damage, -2 ap projectile damage, +6 bonus vs large, -3 base projectile damage per projectile
Gaze of Nagash Upgraded: +30 explosion damage, -15 ap explosion damage, -2 ap projectile damage, +6 bonus vs large, -3 base projectile damage per projectile. Power cost to 15
Comet of Casandora: +648 ap projectile damage (the actual comet, not the explosion)
Comet of Casandora Upgraded: +648 ap projectile damage (the actual comet, not the explosion)
High King: Removed requirement for targeted units to be above 50% morale
Beloved Son of Bretonnia: Removed requirement for targeted units to be above 50% morale.
Drop Rocks ability for Characters: Explosion damage 36 -> 54 , AP explosion damage 18 -> 36
Have I made my point? That’s what it takes to run a multiplayer combat game – doing the above, every few months or weeks. Over and over again.
And that's in a game which is still primarily single-player.
I'm not saying Frontier would need to go anything like as far as we see in the Spoiler, or as regularly, but they would need to do something more than every couple of years either proposing or implementing a random isolated change and then often just as swiftly withdrawing it.
Serious multiplayer games are not balanced by some kind of protracted negotiation followed by endless silences, going nowhere, between the Developer and various interest groups. The Devs act with utter ruthlessness to ensure the game integrity. But they act holistically.
In ED we have seen the most humble attempts at addressing gimbals arcs and booster stacking withdrawn. Perhaps there was some merit in the withdrawals because these were isolated proposals with no holistic overview. In the entire history of this game reverski has not once been addressed. Healing beams received a small nerf in over three years from introduction. Powerplant size increases and/or modding removed the entire 'hard choices' model of ship build design. I could go on.
In short we continue to see the legacy of the infamous 2.1 patch.
Full long range damage at all ranges at a stroke removed most of the designed game balance of pre-2.1 ED, which was based around weapons being either difficult to hit with at long range (kinetic, plasma) or doing trivial damage at long range (thermal, including rails). Some mods (eg super penetrator) simultaneously removed the need to achieve a position relative to the opponent’s ship, eg to be above him to shoot down into his PP, or behind him to target his drives. Other mods (drives, PD) made it possible for a ship to be near an increased top speed at all times. The combination of the above pushes a meta of moving-quickly-backwards-and-sideways-with-4-pips-to-Sys-whilst-firing-at-5 km-and-facing-the-opponent-at-all-times. That’s war by spreadsheet and mouse-pointer. And by talking about long range I'm just hitting on one example here.
If Frontier are serious about a combat overhaul I would welcome that but they would need to commit hundreds (probably thousands) of man-hours of Dev time to what’s needed, and further need to commit to at least a full year of quarterly reviews following that overhaul.
Alternatively they could just copy the sort of self-limitations used in independent PvP competitions and say, ‘OK guys, Icarus cup time, you can’t use this special, or that special, or more than this number of boosters, we’ll artificially bring in a CQC-type ring-out mechanic etc etc’ – which could have some merit but wouldn’t be a competition that showed people playing ED as it is actually sold to the public.
Of the community PvP Leagues, actually the only one played as 'no rules, bare knuckle' Open ED was Season 1 - and it's no coincidence that that was the only one before Engineering. After that it became impossible, so the PvP community had to try to balance the game for itself because the Devs wouldn't do it.
My guess, with respect to those concerned at Frontier, is that fixing the multiplayer combat game or admitting that it needs fixing would respectively be considered too demanding or too bad for public image. I therefore expect nothing, at all, to happen. Roll on the necro thread ... the never-ending necro ...
There's no lobby, no way to create a private game. You can't run a tournament with the random match maker. There's also no spectator mode. These two features would be absolutely necessary if you wanted to host a tournament.
For the Icarus Cup to become a reality, CQC would need development time and that's what Frontier doesn't have an excess of.
The Icarus Cup was not planned as a CQC tournament, but a main game PvP one. Plenty of those have been held successfully without Frontier support - and could be held more easily with one - without needing extra features. PvP league 4 even allowed most engineering, since the 3.0 rebalances took out a lot of the need for the restrictions.
The design of the older CQC tournament that the Icarus Cup replaced didn't technically rely on any of those features either, though (much as they'd be nice to have!):
- qualification was to be based on success in the randomly match-made matches (in a not well-defined way, but perhaps just highest number of points scored between two dates?) and as deathmatch rather than team-based that wouldn't require any of those features
- the tournament itself would be held in a physical venue on separate server infrastructure, so it would be easy to set up a specific match by ensuring those were the only 8 players on the infrastructure at the time
- lack of spectator mode might have then made the final matches less interesting to watch, but wouldn't have stopped them happening (and very few of the qualifying rounds would have been interesting to watch)
Yet somehow every six months the community cobbles together a PvP league that works flawlessly, hosted in PG with referee's who livestream it. The Icarus Cup wasn't ever implied to be a new special game mode or addition to CQC, rather just a dev supported event.
The Icarus Cup was not planned as a CQC tournament, but a main game PvP one. Plenty of those have been held successfully without Frontier support - and could be held more easily with one - without needing extra features. PvP league 4 even allowed most engineering, since the 3.0 rebalances took out a lot of the need for the restrictions.
The design of the older CQC tournament that the Icarus Cup replaced didn't technically rely on any of those features either, though (much as they'd be nice to have!):
qualification was to be based on success in the randomly match-made matches (in a not well-defined way, but perhaps just highest number of points scored between two dates?) and as deathmatch rather than team-based that wouldn't require any of those features
the tournament itself would be held in a physical venue on separate server infrastructure, so it would be easy to set up a specific match by ensuring those were the only 8 players on the infrastructure at the time
lack of spectator mode might have then made the final matches less interesting to watch, but wouldn't have stopped them happening (and very few of the qualifying rounds would have been interesting to watch)
Pardon my ignorance, I completely forgot about the new format and thought this was still a CQC event. Should have taken a look at the OP again, last time I did was three years ago.
The fundamental problem with holding an official worldwide PvP event is that it would expose the extent of development required to turn post-2.1 ED into something resembling a world-class multiplayer combat game.
Either Frontier would have to impose and enforce a whole series of arbitrary rules, which would be an admission that the game as currently sold is not usable in serious competition, or they would have to undertake the massive task of a wholesale combat rebalance.
If Frontier did neither (just said, 'here’s the game we sell, so play it') then any competition would be a laugh-out-loud festival of broken tactics, not least 4-0-2 long range hitscan reverski, healing beams, aimbot missiles and stacked gimballed kinetic.
Take a look at the regular Patch Notes for any major multiplayer title. Heck, here is just one random set from TWW2 and that isn’t even remotely near being a top-tier PvP game. I’m extracting just one segment of just one patch in the following spoiler:
Spell and Unit Balancing
General
Rebalanced all vortex, breath, wind and explosion abilities, as a bug that was making them use a reduced radius for area of effect was fixed
Summoning Changes
Summoned units are no longer unbreakable. Undead summons now also crumble in addition to unbinding
Adjusted power cost of some summon spells
Redesigned unbinding to apply for a set duration, with a first phase of light damage and a short second phase of lethal damage. Now summons will expire after a set and predictable duration
New Unbinding Times and Power Costs
Tomb Blade of Arkhan: 82 seconds
Realm of Souls: 92 second
Transformation of Kadon (Manticore): 96 seconds, 13 power cost
Transformation of Kadon (Varghulf): 77 seconds, 13 power cost
Denizens of the Deep: 71 seconds, 12 power cost
Drowned Dead: 88 seconds
Captain Roth’s Moondial: 88 seconds
Drowned Dead Upgraded: 121 seconds
Ghosts of the Past: 93 seconds
Savage Dominion: 101 seconds, 15 power cost
Maternal Instinct: 180 seconds
Awaken from the Grave: 86 seconds
Awaken from the Grave Upgraded: 117 seconds
Staff of Corruption: 91 seconds
Spirit-Essence of Chaos: 91 seconds
Feral Cold Ones: 80 seconds
Raise Dead: 134 seconds. Cooldown increased to 39 seconds. Cost to 4
Raise Dead Upgraded: 80 seconds. Cooldown increased to 39 seconds. Cost to 6
Vermintide: 67 seconds
Menace Below: 67 seconds
Pestilent Birth: 73 seconds
Eagle Sanctuary: 78 seconds
Rats Emerge: 99 seconds
Lord of Undeath: 139 seconds
Command the Unliving: 85 seconds
Command the Unliving Upgraded: 77 seconds
Units
Dark Elves
Hydra: +10 armour
Chill of Sontar: +10 armour
Kharibdyss: +10 armour
Knights of the Ebon Claw: -2 melee attack, -1 melee defence, -50 cost
Crone Hellebron (foot, dark steed, manticore): +3 melee defence
Cold One Knights: -2 melee attack, -1 melee defence
Cold One Dread Knights: -2 melee attack, -1 melee defence
Cold One Chariot: -10 charge bonus, -2 melee defence
Khainite Assassin: added Vanguard deployment, +2 run speed. Projectile now applies poison contact effect.
Volkmar the Grim – War Altar of Sigmar: +15 bonus vs infantry, -50 mp cost
Helblaster Volley Gun: increased accuracy.
Witch Hunters: Accusation is now a hex. No longer deals direct damage. Instead reduces armour by 30, melee defence by 26 and missile resistance by 22 for 35 seconds.
Steam Tank: +2 melee attack.
Greenskins
Fixed animation issue that was increasing Wyvern flying melee attack interval by seconds.
Grimgor: +400 health
Skarsnik: +400 health
Giant: +3 run speed
Doom Divers: +115 ap projectile damage, -105 projectile damage.
Glade Riders (Hagbane Tips): +3 ap projectile damage, -3 base projectile damage, deals magical damage.
Glade Guard: -50 cost
Glade Guard (Hagbane Tips): +3 ap projectile damage, -3 base projectile damage, deals magical damage.
Wardens of Cythral: +50 cost
Waywatchers: +1 base reload time.
Lizardmen
Primal Instincts: Activation threshold reduced to 20% health left. Now also buffs charge bonus by +16% and melee attack by +8.
Horned Ones: -2 melee attack, -1 melee defence
Cold One Spear Riders: -2 melee attack, -1 melee defence
Cold One Riders: -2 melee attack, -1 melee defence
Kroq-gar – foot: +136 health, added charge defense vs large, +8 bonus vs large.
Kroq-gar – Cold/Horned One: +8 bonus vs large.
Skink Chief on Terradon: now has a stronger drop rocks projectile. Increased mass for Terradon.
Skink Priest on Terradon: now has a stronger drop rocks projectile. Increased mass for Terradon.
Bretonnia
Pegasus Knights: +3 charge bonus
Royal Pegasus Knights: +3 charge bonus
Men-at-arms (Polearms): -25 mp cost, +1 bonus vs large.
Beastslayers of Bastogne: +5 bonus vs large
Companions of Quenelles: -100 mp cost
Skaven
Skaven Assassin: added Vanguard Deployment. Now uses Assassin’s Trophy instead of Queek’s unique Trophy Heads ability. -50 cost.
Summoned Plague Monks: corrected entity health to match Plague Monks.
Warriors of Chaos
Sigvald: +5 melee attack
Forsaken: +2 charge bonus
Daemonspew: +2 charge bonus
Marauder Horsemasters: +2 ammo
Marauder Horsemen (javelins): -2 ammo
Chaos Spawn: +2 melee attack
Wyrdspawn: +2 melee attack
Swords of Chaos: -100 mp cost
Giant: +3 run speed
Norsca
Marauder Horsemasters: now uses same melee weapon as Chaos Horsemasters. +2 ammo
Marauder Horsemen (javelins): -2 ammo
Armoured Skin Wolves: -50 cost
Maws of Savagery: -50 cost
Feral Mammoth: +100 cost
War Mammoth (Warshrine): -100 cost
Giant: +3 run speed
Beastmen
Minotaurs (basic version): +2 melee attack
Chaos Spawn: +2 melee attack
Giant: +3 run speed
Abilities
Primal Instincts: Reduced the hitpoint percentage at which rampage triggers from 50% to 20% When triggered, the affected unit also benefits from +8 melee attacks and +16% charge bonus
Shem’s Burning Gaze: +20 explosion damage, -5 ap explosion damage, -2 projectile damage, -7 bonus vs large per projectile
Shem’s Burning Gaze Upgraded: +40 explosion damage, +40 ap explosion damage, -4 base projectile damage, -11 bonus vs large per projectile
Hand of Gods: +20 explosion damage, -5 ap explosion damage, -2 projectile damage, -7 bonus vs large per projectile
Vindictive Glare: -95 explosion damage, +25 ap explosion damage, -15 ap projectile damage, 30 base missile damage, -22 bonus vs large per projectile. Power cost to 4
Vindictive Glare Upgraded: -95 explosion damage, +25 ap explosion damage, -15 ap projectile damage, 30 base missile damage, -22 bonus vs large per projectile. Power cost to 8
Gaze of Mork: -95 explosion damage, +25 ap explosion damage, -15 ap projectile damage, 30 base missile damage, -22 bonus vs large per projectile.
Gaze of Mork Upgraded: -95 explosion damage, +25 ap explosion damage, -15 ap projectile damage, 30 base missile damage, -22 bonus vs large per projectile. Increased velocity to help projectiles reach at max range
Gaze of Nagash: +30 explosion damage, -15 ap explosion damage, -2 ap projectile damage, +6 bonus vs large, -3 base projectile damage per projectile
Gaze of Nagash Upgraded: +30 explosion damage, -15 ap explosion damage, -2 ap projectile damage, +6 bonus vs large, -3 base projectile damage per projectile. Power cost to 15
Comet of Casandora: +648 ap projectile damage (the actual comet, not the explosion)
Comet of Casandora Upgraded: +648 ap projectile damage (the actual comet, not the explosion)
High King: Removed requirement for targeted units to be above 50% morale
Beloved Son of Bretonnia: Removed requirement for targeted units to be above 50% morale.
Drop Rocks ability for Characters: Explosion damage 36 -> 54 , AP explosion damage 18 -> 36
Have I made my point? That’s what it takes to run a multiplayer combat game – doing the above, every few months or weeks. Over and over again.
And that's in a game which is still primarily single-player.
I'm not saying Frontier would need to go anything like as far as we see in the Spoiler, or as regularly, but they would need to do something more than every couple of years either proposing or implementing a random isolated change and then often just as swiftly withdrawing it.
Serious multiplayer games are not balanced by some kind of protracted negotiation followed by endless silences, going nowhere, between the Developer and various interest groups. The Devs act with utter ruthlessness to ensure the game integrity. But they act holistically.
In ED we have seen the most humble attempts at addressing gimbals arcs and booster stacking withdrawn. Perhaps there was some merit in the withdrawals because these were isolated proposals with no holistic overview. In the entire history of this game reverski has not once been addressed. Healing beams received a small nerf in over three years from introduction. Powerplant size increases and/or modding removed the entire 'hard choices' model of ship build design. I could go on.
In short we continue to see the legacy of the infamous 2.1 patch.
Full long range damage at all ranges at a stroke removed most of the designed game balance of pre-2.1 ED, which was based around weapons being either difficult to hit with at long range (kinetic, plasma) or doing trivial damage at long range (thermal, including rails). Some mods (eg super penetrator) simultaneously removed the need to achieve a position relative to the opponent’s ship, eg to be above him to shoot down into his PP, or behind him to target his drives. Other mods (drives, PD) made it possible for a ship to be near an increased top speed at all times. The combination of the above pushes a meta of moving-quickly-backwards-and-sideways-with-4-pips-to-Sys-whilst-firing-at-5 km-and-facing-the-opponent-at-all-times. That’s war by spreadsheet and mouse-pointer. And by talking about long range I'm just hitting on one example here.
If Frontier are serious about a combat overhaul I would welcome that but they would need to commit hundreds (probably thousands) of man-hours of Dev time to what’s needed, and further need to commit to at least a full year of quarterly reviews following that overhaul.
Alternatively they could just copy the sort of self-limitations used in independent PvP competitions and say, ‘OK guys, Icarus cup time, you can’t use this special, or that special, or more than this number of boosters, we’ll artificially bring in a CQC-type ring-out mechanic etc etc’ – which could have some merit but wouldn’t be a competition that showed people playing ED as it is actually sold to the public.
Of the community PvP Leagues, actually the only one played as 'no rules, bare knuckle' Open ED was Season 1 - and it's no coincidence that that was the only one before Engineering. After that it became impossible, so the PvP community had to try to balance the game for itself because the Devs wouldn't do it.
My guess, with respect to those concerned at Frontier, is that fixing the multiplayer combat game or admitting that it needs fixing would respectively be considered too demanding or too bad for public image. I therefore expect nothing, at all, to happen. Roll on the necro thread ... the never-ending necro ...
Looking at the PvP community in general right now and seeing the rapid decline in players, if this Icarus cup ever gets implemented, It will be a pretty small event. The question I have is, considering your current standing with the PvP community, I wonder why push this when it's highly unlikely you will ever be in any structured PvP event again.
I understand the whole "Frontier have basically put this on the back burner and buried it", and you want to try and stick it to em for not holding up their end of the deal, but I don't see where this event would benefit you in any way. I am not trying to attack you personally, we all make mistakes.
Looking at the PvP community in general right now and seeing the rapid decline in players, if this Icarus cup ever gets implemented, It will be a pretty small event. The question I have is, considering your current standing with the PvP community, I wonder why push this when it's highly unlikely you will ever be in any structured PvP event again.
I understand the whole "Frontier have basically put this on the back burner and buried it", and you want to try and stick it to em for not holding up their end of the deal, but I don't see where this event would benefit you in any way. I am not trying to attack you personally, we all make mistakes.
I started poking this before I distanced myself from the community, and I'm not going to let something go once I get started on it. In my view my standing in the PvP community has little bearing on this. I wanted an answer from Frontier on why they abandoned a feature and didn't address it in three years. I got my answer when Will posted in the thread.
But you're right, I probably won't be in any structured PvP again, though I never really was to begin with, outside of in-house fights I mainly ganked. I can absolutely see going back to Elite after the 2020 update and picking up where I left off. Additionally I don't feel mistakes were made. I chose to do what I did knowing full well what could happen. But that's neither here nor there.
I started poking this before I distanced myself from the community, and I'm not going to let something go once I get started on it. In my view my standing in the PvP community has little bearing on this. I wanted an answer from Frontier on why they abandoned a feature and didn't address it in three years. I got my answer when Will posted in the thread.
But you're right, I probably won't be in any structured PvP again, though I never really was to begin with, outside of in-house fights I mainly ganked. I can absolutely see going back to Elite after the 2020 update and picking up where I left off. Additionally I don't feel mistakes were made. I chose to do what I did knowing full well what could happen. But that's neither here nor there.
Cool. Although I didn't agree with your decision, it was a hard decision to make and I respect that. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the greater good, and you were right about one thing. Elite's playerbase both PVP and PVE is extremely toxic. It's sad but true.
Hey Commanders, the idea of the Icarus Cup is great and is still something we'd like to see come to fruition in the future. However at this point in time we have no plans to run the Icarus Cup competition in it's current form, or award the cosmetic prizes to those who had previously signed up. We are looking into the possibilities of holding other contests and competitions in the future, so keep an eye out for any details on those!
Hey Commanders, the idea of the Icarus Cup is great and is still something we'd like to see come to fruition in the future. However at this point in time we have no plans to run the Icarus Cup competition in it's current form, or award the cosmetic prizes to those who had previously signed up. We are looking into the possibilities of holding other contests and competitions in the future, so keep an eye out for any details on those!
Being realistic here, it's been 37 months. Are we supposed to keep an eye out for 37 more months? 12 months? 60 months? Just trying to get a ballpark here. Thanks!
Hey Commanders, the idea of the Icarus Cup is great and is still something we'd like to see come to fruition in the future. However at this point in time we have no plans to run the Icarus Cup competition in it's current form, or award the cosmetic prizes to those who had previously signed up. We are looking into the possibilities of holding other contests and competitions in the future, so keep an eye out for any details on those!
In real money, I think FDev would get a lot more respect if they#d just put this idea out of its misery, and officially quash it. I mean realistically, its bee over three years this has been "in the pipeline" - that is more than some games complete lifecycles.