If I wanted a 'radio-tuning' game I would have rather bought an old radio.

[Riverside]

It's almost like we knew it would happen before it even started. >__>

Maybe you should have left the OP hanging & not bumped their thread then. Maybe it should have remained in the section that used to be called 'suggestions & feedback'.

Then again maybe FDev should have built on what was already there & not needlessly removed functionality that's been in the game for four years, a move that was only ever going to create frustration and was never going to sell more games.

Lots of predictable things happen, generally there is an easy solution.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Just going to thank you for at least having the courage to openly state that it's not enough for you to be happy with playing the game, you also have to know someone else isn't. Nothing that I do in the game can possibly 'devalue' what you do, other than in your own mind since that's the only place it actually has any 'value' to begin with.

By the way, why do you see exploration as a competition? Are you concerned that we're going to run out of planets soon?

Because it IS a competition, designed as a competition with mechanics supporting the competition. See the codex, exploration leaderboards and tags.

Sure, some may ignore that and play on their own in a corner of a court, but that is no reason to change the rules for the rest. Exploration is a contest, FD designed it as such and every proposal needs to acknowledge that. He wasnt courageous, he just plainly stated how the game works.

Or not, I am sure 100 more pages of "Gimme what I want!!!!!!!!!!" will be convincing too.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Because it IS a competition, designed as a competition with mechanics supporting the competition. See the codex, exploration leaderboards and tags.

Sure, some may ignore that and play on their own in a corner of a court, but that is no reason to change the rules for the rest. Exploration is a contest, FD designed it as such and every proposal needs to acknowledge that. He wasnt courageous, he just plainly stated how the game works.

Or not, I am sure 100 more pages of "Gimme what I want!!!!!!!!!!" will be convincing too.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but there is no current way within the game to calculate the total tags players have accumulated.

Also am I wrong in thinking that leaderboards exist only as a part of the squadron UI therefore unless you are willing to make a solo one you are not part of that game feature therefore are not "racing" to explore with the other players.

 

[Zieman]

The compromise is in accepting that the first discovered tags from players that actually travelled to the body to get them were not retroactively given first mapped tags too, because if the option had been available it can be assumed they would have.

The compromise is in accepting that the pre-3.3 tags have no note to show they weren't just obtained in a few minutes with a telescope, but by a player who actually travelled to them.

This is IMHO the biggest and most obvious glaring mistake FDEV made when changing exploration mechanics. All previous endeavours were devaluated by a factor of 1000 at least.

Otherwise to me this ADS (+DSS) -> FSS (+probes) is just a matter of adapt and overcome.
Exploring one system up to honk+scan level is tremendously quicker than before. Fully exploring a system takes much more time (compared to the old DSS scan, you need to be much closer to use probes, especially if you had the long range mod), but POI locations are revealed (previously finding even one was almost unfeasible).

To me this change means slower travel across the galaxy, lots of more 'first discovered' tags (which previously meant something, now they mean pretty much nothing), some cherry picked 'first mapped' tags and crazy amount of credits.
Also, finding some rare planets like glowing gas giants or very big landable planets became much more time consuming, making those de facto much more rare.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but there is no current way within the game to calculate the total tags players have accumulated.

Also am I wrong in thinking that leaderboards exist only as a part of the squadron UI therefore unless you are willing to make a solo one you are not part of that game feature therefore are not "racing" to explore with the other players.

Again: there is a leaderboard, and an 'individual'-competition for each body, and each type per region. There is no talking around it: exploration is a competition, as if everything in the multiplayer game ED.

You dont like it? Fine. But you cant ask the sports to have a special rule for you, nor can you deny it is designed as a competition.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Again: there is a leaderboard, and an 'individual'-competition for each body, and each type per region. There is no talking around it: exploration is a compwtition, as if everything in the multiplayer game ED.

You dont like it? Fine. But you cant ask the sports to have a special rule for you, nor can you deny it is designed as a competition.

Is there a category within the leaderboards where everyone (member of a group or not) is weighted against everyone else who plays?

Can I go into the leaderboards in the game and look at my position even though I am not a member of a squadron?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Is there a category within the leaderboards where everyone (member of a group or not) is weighted against everyone else who plays?

Can I go into the leaderboards in the game and look at my position even though I am not a member of a squadron?

I am not here to debate what your ideal leaderboard is. Exploration is setup as a competition on multiple levels. Deal with it.

Unless someone opts fully out (no tags, credits, rank, rep, codex mentions and leaderboard contributions) they get to play with the same rules. That is how games work.

 

[LeoBartlet]

I am not here to debate what your ideal leaderboard is. Exploration is setup as a competition on multiple levels. Deal with it.

Competition is by and large about leaderboards and your position within them. Given the lack of leaderboards it can be argued quite convincingly that no such competition exists within the game except for those willing to participate in squadrons and cqc.

That being said I accept your surrender on this point.

 

[OBYOZ]

Statistics say more people are playing ED now.
Benefits the majority.

50 people rage quitting is nothing. I quit myself back when engineering moved the goalposts yet again, it slowed my progress in the game down by a year, but I'm back now and loving the new exploration, I hope they go further and put realistic views on the FSS and orrery.

Thanks fdevs.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Competition is by and large about leaderboards and your position within them. Given the lack of leaderboards it can be argued quite convincingly that no such competition exists within the game except for those willing to participate in squadrons and cqc.

That being said I accept your surrender on this point.

Again: tags and codex first discoveries.

 

[Stigbob]

Competition is by and large about leaderboards and your position within them. Given the lack of leaderboards it can be argued quite convincingly that no such competition exists within the game except for those willing to participate in squadrons and cqc.

That being said I accept your surrender on this point.

The exploration leaderboard is displayed differently, if its got someone else's name on it in game then they won.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Again: tags and codex first discoveries.

Is there a leaderboard to match my tags and first discoveries with others?

 

[Riverside]

This is IMHO the biggest and most obvious glaring mistake FDEV made when changing exploration mechanics. All previous endeavours were devaluated by a factor of 1000 at least.

Otherwise to me this ADS (+DSS) -> FSS (+probes) is just a matter of adapt and overcome.
Exploring one system up to honk+scan level is tremendously quicker than before. Fully exploring a system takes much more time (compared to the old DSS scan, you need to be much closer to use probes, especially if you had the long range mod), but POI locations are revealed (previously finding even one was almost unfeasible).

To me this change means slower travel across the galaxy, lots of more 'first discovered' tags (which previously meant something, now they mean pretty much nothing), some cherry picked 'first mapped' tags and crazy amount of credits.
Also, finding some rare planets like glowing gas giants or very big landable planets became much more time consuming, making those de facto much more rare.

Relevant thread:

Change pre-3.3 First Discovered to First Visited

 

[LeoBartlet]

The exploration leaderboard is displayed differently, if its got someone else's name on it in game then they won.

So really original scanning mechanics and associated tagging system was also a competition.

Then perhaps we can have two separate systems and competitions and leaderboards that don't actually exist.

1. The original god honk as its called these days.

2. The radio tuners club.

Bit like how some teams might qualify for Europa league and not the champions but in Elite its entirely optional and not based on performance.

 

[Stigbob]

So really original scanning mechanics and associated tagging system was also a competition.

Then perhaps we can have two separate systems and competitions and leaderboards that don't actually exist.

1. The original god honk as its called these days.

2. The radio tuners club.

Bit like how some teams might qualify for Europa league and not the champions but in Elite its entirely optional and not based on performance.

That would be overcomplicated, if you get your name on it you "won" old or new.

Everyone was equal before and are equal now no need to try and split it down. Its an entirely level playing field.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Again: tags and codex first discoveries.

That’s not competition, that’s luck and speed. As a competitor you have no idea who or how many you are competing against, you have zero ability to influence the outcome in your favour or against others.

Really the mechanics of exploration tags are really pot luck on whether you get there first. You are not competing directly at all, only participating.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

IMHO, the FSS has been the single best move for exploration, ever.

I do miss the honk populating the scanner, but now I can scan a whole system without needing to fly to every single body and stare at it (often while it's still a dot) to find out very little about it.

I can also find USSs with ease. Bonus!

The old system was like watching paint dry. I only explored before to stick my name on a few things, and see some already discovered sights, and get a different view of the galaxy.
Now I want to actually explore and find stuff I'd have no hope of finding before.

My only complaint is that you need to be throttled to zero to use it. But then after I had real trouble zooming in on a fast moving body, I can sort of understand why. But I'd like the throttle option to be my choice.

 

[LeoBartlet]

That would be overcomplicated, if you get your name on it you "won" old or new.

Everyone was equal before and are equal now no need to try and split it down. Its an entirely level playing field.

Having more than one way to achieve the same goal of "winning" would be over-complicated for the residents of Elite?

That revelation is as shocking to me as finding out that exploration is a competition but one without leaderboards therefore everyone's a winner.

If everyone's a winner then I can't quite work out the hostility towards having two separate exploration systems.

Perhaps the hostility towards that has some relation to the initial hostility engineers got and thus Frontier changing it to a pretty bland mechanic where there is no truly unique engineering builds.

I know this is the wrong thread for it but perhaps the next expansion could be Elite Dangerous: Everyones a winner*

*Does not have leaderboards or competitions but will be used as an excuse to prevent diversity in gameplay styles.

 

[Valorin]

Making the planet/system scan even more tedious and repetitive with the FSS scanner, definately spoiled the fun in exploration.

Speak for yourself. I love the FSS.

 

[Stigbob]

Having more than one way to achieve the same goal of "winning" would be over-complicated for the residents of Elite?

That revelation is as shocking to me as finding out that exploration is a competition but one without leaderboards therefore everyone's a winner.

If everyone's a winner then I can't quite work out the hostility towards having two separate exploration systems.

Perhaps the hostility towards that has some relation to the initial hostility engineers got and thus Frontier changing it to a pretty bland mechanic where there is no truly unique engineering builds.

I know this is the wrong thread for it but perhaps the next expansion could be Elite Dangerous: Everyones a winner*

*Does not have leaderboards or competitions but will be used as an excuse to prevent diversity in gameplay styles.

The first person to get the tag is the winner, that obviously can't be everyone.

This all sounds to me like an artificial attempt to divide the playerbase due to change related hostility directed at people who like the new system.