If this game doesnt have the Elite/Frontier magic why not - what does it need?

[Leermeister]

Because that is what many people were actually looking for when pledging on kickstarter. Sure, some want the MMO things. I couldn't care less and I would actually be happy if the game somehow manages to purge the MMO crowd. I think they've made a good start in this direction with no gen chat or auction house

If only they didn't mess up X:R that much And you do get tired after several thousand hours of X3 play.

so basically no point in playing this game over the old one. Really this game has 1 thing that the old one didn't, on-line play. Lol why not just unplug the game completely from the internet, that is possible. They make it a single player game it will be forgotten in a matter of months. If they make it a pure single player game it will kill it. Just a couple hermits playing it now and then alone, people will still remember the old ones over this one in a few years. There's a ton of single player games that are deeper then this in every way anyway.

 

[Tubit]

E needs to distinguish itself in the same way that the other games did, and that's basically by giving the player a sense of wonder. It's something you can't take from the old games and graft it onto this iteration. It has to be more groundbreaking than that. Personally, I would like some of that 'it' to be a rich and dynamic way of interacting with NPCs.

I'm going to use an example I presented in another thread. Let's say I go to a USS and find a trader that's being attacked by pirates. I want those NPCs to react, respond and interact to my actions in a way that drives the game forward. Let's say I save the trader. If my rep doesn't scare him off, he should interact with me instead of just jumping off or keep flying in a straight line forever, or whatever they do now. He could thank me, and I'd gain some rep with his faction. Perhaps I could get some nice work with him or his faction, or some good info as thanks. Maybe he knows the coordinates to some prototype weaponry hidden in a cluster of asteroids. Maybe the cluster of asteroids is in a Federal military zone. Maybe it's guarded by pirates. Maybe he secretly wants to ambush you. Maybe the prototype weapon is some exotic disease. There should be lots of directions to take every little encounter a few steps further. NPCs should be someone who remembers you and that you'll see again. They should have motivations and act upon them accordingly. I know that we're little people in Elite and that it takes a combined effort to make waves. But even little people make ripples, and I'd like to see a dynamic system respond to that in a way that propels the player experience forward in an immersive and entertaining way.

 

[Vasious]

For me, I don't think ED needs to have the First Person element for deeps. Nice to have, but not Need to have.
Nor do I think players need to be about to Build stuff - factories colonies stations capital ships etc.
Landing on planetary star bases & unsanctioned landing fields would enough with some sight seeing on the way.

But before all that, some hopefully more smaller ideas

• City lights that can be seen from orbit ala the pictures in the news letters (might be on hold for Planetary landings for the lights don't change when me can do down to the planets?)
• Having diagloue boxes in the bulletin board to ask questions about the missions, ala Fronter and FEE
• The Naval Missions should involve more that one promotion per mission, as they are easier to progress up the ranks than faction or sub faction reputation. Loyal service at a rank over several missions for the Navy in question, should unlock the promotion mission. Higher ranks might require high local faction reputations.
  • So for example
  • We get sufficient reputation with the faction, they offer the first mission a go fetch
  • We complete the mission and get awarded the rank.
  • The Navy then offers a few more similar missions until you are trusted with a more important mission for promotion
  • The cycle continues but having positive reputation with a number of Faction member systems might be require for important Promotions
• Tie in of Naval Missions to the Story Line, eg those Senators are bound to have pull with the Imperial Navy and have station calling for 'volunteers'
• Caned messages to send to NPC ships to have limited interaction.
• Long Distance missions for the delivery and courier missions
• Passengers and passenger cabins to give those Orcas a place to shine and something for those Service and Tourist systems to have a bustling for

 

[Unpleasant]

I see a lot of posts complaining about this game saying is dull, basic etc. So what happened? Why isnt this game as good as the old Frontier game of old that we all loved? What is the magic ingredient that is missing here that was present elsewhere? Was the original Frontier all that deep really? Was it all that immersive? Did you really play Elite for months or just for a few hours?

Because if I am honest with myself I cant remember playing Frontier a great deal - I think I played FFE more actually. And even then I didnt play it as much as I played EF2000 or Falcon 4. I remember some wonderful moments jousting with other ships and sitting on spaceports watching the sky change in speeded up time. But did I actually play it THAT much? Maybe this whole thing is just a load of nostagia tinting our expectations for something that really had no chance of ever being made a reality?

What do you think? Too pessimistic? Are are we kidding ourselves here? Are we ever going to get the game we really want to see?

I played the 80s Elite for months and months. I, like others have said, think ED is closer to the original than any of the others. Wasn't really keen on any of the others myself.

In the original we didn't have dedicated trade ships. You filled up your ship with cargo, jumped to the next station, fought your though maybe 3 or 4 waves of enemy fighters to the station and docked with it. Sold your cargo, bought some more then went and did the same to another station. Sure you could go back and fourth between 2 stations and trade, but you were always having to fight something along the way.

I'm not sure if I think the prices of the ships in ED are to expensive or that trading just isn't profitable enough. I'd probably go with the 2nd of the two.

Playing in open play, I simple can't use the more profitable trade routes because there's always someone camping the system ready to interdict you, stealing stuff or just wanting to kill you. Dedicated trade ships are no match for any of the combat ships, so by doing so I'd be risking an evening or 2 of grinding my trade ship.

Trading needs to have that element of fighting thrown in and it needs to be a lot more profitable. I'm sure the game will get boring for anyone if they're just buying, flying, selling for a small profit at the same stations for months on end. All because they need to stay away from griefers.

I think with some balancing tweaks the game will be spot on, but I think what is going to make a lot of people get bored quickly and possibly trash talk the game is that type of player in the game. The ones that camp the more profitable trading stations, ignoring all npcs just blowing up human ships and griefing hours of work for a laugh.

I'm sorry to say, the only people that having a problem with others. like me, calling them griefers are the very same people that do it in game. Looking at the forums that seems a lot of people.

 

[Alric]

It's a natural evolution of the Original with a few features from the later games. But essentially Elite evolved. This game will not be complete till planetary landing is done and there is a lot more content. But it's a great start and I'd rather have what we have now than have to wait 2 years for a DLC's.

I agree with this.

 

[xDreadnoughtx]

I can distill all these threads and give you many, many answers. Here are some of them...

1. Unrealistic expectations in interpreting what was a visionary concept in the 1980's into something that would meet all expected player dreams in a post GTA/Skyrim gaming world, given the technical challenges of increasing programming/hardware.
2. Unrealistic expectations because a group of people think that EVE is in some way comparable to ED in terms of its basic concept.
3. A preconception that MMO must = X. Therefore ED must = X if it is an MMO, rather than MMO =REDEFINITION OF MMO. Try to reimagine what is possible.
4. A mis-understanding that this is the final product. It is not. It will be iterative, and if you do not have the patience for that, well......
However..
5, It is too easy......Yes! It should punish every dumb move. It should demand precision, skill and good judgement. The game does not do so in many areas.
6. It should be more clearly advertised as to what it is, to prevent all the tears due to poor research and decision making. This is something FD needs to take responsibility for, even if I have very little sympathy for those players.
7. The in game communication is shocking - yes!, and it currently entirely limits the future of the game. It will thrive or subsist on the developer response to this basic question.

As far as player built resources or structures etc...just no. Perhaps the ability to commission a base of operations and set some commodity prices, but that is it. Anything else shows a very significant misunderstanding of Elite.

My opinions. No one else's.

Cheers.

 

[adoredtv]

Frontier had way more depth. Remember taking that BB assassination mission, waiting on the ship taking off then following them until they jump into hyperspace, scanning their wake then jumping to their destination - which of course you get to first due to having a faster ship? Then you lay in wait on them arriving at their destination. This sort of thing was sacrificed in the name of online play with Elite Dangerous - I wouldn't mind so much but the online side of the game is sorely lacking so it just feels like a complete loss of the good stuff in Frontier.

USS's are pretty poor gameplay and have a feeling of being hastily added just because they had to give something to do early on. There were no USS's in Frontier so why do we need them 20 years later, again? Because of multiplayer?

Obviously having stuff like planetary landings made Frontier far more immersive than any space sim up till that point. It's understandable that Elite Dangerous needs an expansion for that in this day and age - however the comparison has to be made and again it's unfavourable.

As it is, Dangerous only beats Frontier on graphics (duh) and the combat is obviously much better. The game is 6 months away from being a real game and probably 2 years from the finished article.

My personal belief is that they should have made it a full multiplayer game from the start instead of promising an offline mode they couldn't deliver. Offline Dangerous would have been everything Frontier was except no planetary landings and much better combat and that would have made a lot of people happy, but a truly online game will be a much better end product overall.

As it is, they've got a helluva lot of work to do on MP, but it's nothing they can't do now that offline mode has been dropped. This is clearly a competent development team as well but the decision making might need a bit of polishing.

 

[Tubit]

Playing in open play, I simple can't use the more profitable trade routes because there's always someone camping the system ready to interdict you, stealing stuff or just wanting to kill you. Dedicated trade ships are no match for any of the combat ships, so by doing so I'd be risking an evening or 2 of grinding my trade ship.

Wow... Really? I had no idea this was a problem. In my time of trading, I was never attacked by any player. If the pirates stick to established trade routes, maybe try doing some research and find a trade route that isn't in a populated area?

 

[MACMAN86]

We find ourselves in a vacuum of blogging our experiences of mostly plunders when we find out we made a loss when we did not know the rules and no devs are around to lend help here. Then upon reading so many posts you pickup much negative reactions, some bugs, some mistakes, some by hearsay, and you spend as much time reading here to prevent you making similar losses until any such things are straightened out. We now feel like we too are Beta testing and wish for more of what we want in a life/space sim. We wanted co-op and communication. Fair enough if you got tons of mates who game. My friends do their own things and most won't own up to gaming even!
The very best game I have played was Vietcong Co-op mode with 16 players on VOIP and close proximity sound as in life. It had great dedicated servers for co-op for all to take turns at leading missions. BF4 you only get VOIP not proximity for 4 in a squad who can be bothered to even try it.
SEEN THE TRAILER? IT'S NOT IN THE GAME (YET)

 

[Nambo]

I think the lack of a saved game takes away a lot of the risk taking that makes games fun.
I am so worried about losing the credits I have spent so many hours getting that when I see a nearby high combat zone, instead of saving my game, then heading towards the zone for some dangerous fun, I head in the opposite direction.
Maybe that will change when I have a huge amount of money, but at the moment I am finding this game to be rather serious, but that's probably what I want really, a simulation, maybe a mixture of the two would be nice.

The other thing I find about all games, when games were a fairly new thing, well, they were a new thing in Human experience, just moving a couple of pixels around a screen was fun.
Now that we have been playing them for 30 years, none of them, no matter how good, will ever be able to be as new and exciting as Elite was.

 

[Dissentient]

You should try and be original, not port over ideas from another game.
Frankly those games never really survive.
The Elite and Elite Dangerous franchise got its own gameplay and idea of space simming.
If any content is need, it should be built around that and not Eve-online.

Frontier are free to try and impress me with their own vision of what an Elite game should be. However, at this point I really doubt that they will be able to deliver something that would be able to compete with other games of 2015 by continuing what they have been doing over past few months.
I really doubt that it's possible to make a not boring singleplayer sandbox space sim.

Also, they shouldn't advertise this game as a multiplayer one if they want to avoid being compared to EVE.

 

[Tradesman]

Frontier had way more depth. Remember taking that BB assassination mission, waiting on the ship taking off then following them until they jump into hyperspace, scanning their wake then jumping to their destination - which of course you get to first due to having a faster ship? Then you lay in wait on them arriving at their destination. This sort of thing was sacrificed in the name of online play with Elite Dangerous

If they revamp the warp mechanics, we could achieve this is multiplayer.
I think as I said before make time spent in warp dependant of Engine size and distance.
At the moment it seems warp time is the same no matter the distance

 

[[VR] Deggial]

First of all: I like the game! I enjoy playing it and I neither regret having spent money for it (the game itself (starting with beta), a new joystick) nor will I hesitate to invest even more money (Oculus Rift, expansions, maybe even some skins). I am looking forward in excitement to whatever new feature FD will present us.
But still, I think there is something missing.

What is missing so far in repect to this thread, however, is not more shiny stuff. ED is full of it already. Athmospheric fligth, planetfall, walkable spaceships - all this will be highly appreciated and add to the overall experience for sure. But it will not change my personal grieves with the game.

It is neither multiplayer. Coop missions, multi crew ships, coordinated jumps... all of this and more will be great and the game will benefit from having it without any doubt. But it will not solve what I miss.

In my opinion - and it is only an opinion as good as everybody else's - the "magic" that is missing, the lackluster ingredient is the feeling of achievement.

Those who played 'The Original' might remember the struggle to reach the safety of the next spaceport under constant attacks of pirates. The anxious look on the sensors, the adrenalin rush whenever a groupe of blips indicated unknown spaceships approaching your vessle. Are they friend or foe? Will they attack or just passing you, minding their own busyness?
Transporting valuable haulage was a real risc! When you finally arrived at your destination, your hands might have trembled, maybe some sweat pearls stood on your forehead - but you knew that you actually had achieved something! Cashing in your trading profit was merely a sweet add-on!

Combat was forced on you! You had to withstand or perish! There was no "oh, do I want to fight or not?" mini game, no every-once-in-a-while interdictions. There were only laser-hits pattering on your shields!

And this was the reason, why you desperately wanted to upgrade. Why you were grinning from one ear to the other, when you finally could afford a better ship, a better weapon, better shields. Because it helped you to actually SURVIVE (and not just to have a new and "interesting" game experience)!

So, in my opinion, there is no additional content needed, to bring back the "magic" of the original game. All you need is already there! More content is welcome, of course, but will not change much.
What is really, really needed, is to bring back actual DANGER into Elite: Dangerous. A new... no, the OLD balance!
And with the danger, the feeling of achievement and sucess in overcoming it!

 

[Tradesman]

Frontier are free to try and impress me with their own vision of what an Elite game should be. However, at this point I really doubt that they will be able to deliver something that would be able to compete with other games of 2015 by continuing what they have been doing over past few months.
I really doubt that it's possible to make a not boring singleplayer sandbox space sim.

Also, they shouldn't advertise this game as a multiplayer one if they want to avoid being compared to EVE.

Eve is not the only multiplayer game. Just don't see your point here.
Elite is completely different game.

 

[Connor Caple]

Why isn't this game as good as the old Frontier game of old that we all loved? What is the magic ingredient that is missing here that was present elsewhere? Was the original Frontier all that deep really? Was it all that immersive? Did you really play Elite for months or just for a few hours?

I played -=ELITE=- 1984 for a couple of months and it was fun. It was new. It was different. It was the first of its kind and I loved it. I was not impressed by Frontier Elite at all.

Because I loved -=ELITE=-, I then went on to play lots of other space exploration games like the X series, EvE and even DarkStar One (PC and 360!) because they all had elements of the original -=ELITE=- and they moved the genre forwards, or added some other fun elements.

I supported ED because I wanted the creators of the original -=ELITE=- to take their property and bring it up to date. I was hoping for more than just new graphics. I deliberately waited until it was close to release and they had announced 'no wipe' to start playing, so it would all be fresh and fun and hopefully less buggy.

I like the huge scope of the Galaxy.

I was, and still am, disappointed by the Online requirement. I am disappointed that travelling takes longer than it used to in the original. I am disappointed that the ship's onboard computer has all the processing power of an Atari ST (I'm being generous here). I am disappointed that the interface is a horribly, clunky mess. I am disappointed that the future has not moved on in 30 years like our own present time has.

I'm getting ready to go off and explore the galaxy for kicks.

I've tried Bounty Hunting, it was boring. I've tried Mining, it's a horribly fiddly boring pain in the buttocks. Trading is a necessary evil to equip my exploration ship and has been a horrible grind so far.

I completely understand why others are disappointed and I don't understand the game 'supporters' who are stuck in the stone age and want steam powered ships with an abacus on board.

If I wanted to play -=ELITE=- 1984, I could download it and it certainly would not be worth more than DarkStar One and would have less content, if we're honest...

The game, for me, feels like a huge step backwards. I didn't buy into it for nostalgia, I wanted a great space exploration game with bells and whistles and computers that know how to communicate with stations and remember what they were told, but that's just me.

Bring on the Neanderthals Apes and get one of them to toss a piece of 1984 Rebar next to a monolith for me, will you, before they start flaming us?

 

[Nambo]

Another thing I thought of, a story line, whats the story line, you just find yourself at a station with a ship and a bit of money with no idea who you are supposed to be, how you can personally enter the game as the character.
In Frontier I seem to remember getting a book or two that placed you into the game.

 

[Dissentient]

Eve is not the only multiplayer game. Just don't see your point here.
Elite is completely different.

Being different is not a merit in and of itself.
Everything related to what I described before in ED is strictly worse than in EVE.

 

[lysan]

I wonder if it is an "uncanny valley" problem. The Uncanny Valley occurs when a simulation of humans is too realistic to be a cartoon, but just not realistic enough to be believably human. At that point, the character feels uncanny, creepy; as if you're looking at a animated corpse.
.
The evolutionary explanation is that we are really good at spotting when something looks off about someone --whether they are ill, or dead (in which case you wish to avoid contact with them as their condition may be catching). So we recognise cartoons as cartoons, and can relate to them as living characters because we anthropomorphise (another evolutionary trait). We recognise real people as real people. But almost real people look... off, somehow. Creepy.
.
I wonder whether in the same way we can relate to blocky, primitive 8-bit graphics because they are non-specific and 'blank' enough for us to project our own imagination on them. With real-life imagery we don't have to do that --it looks real and we accept it as real. But very realistic graphics are in the uncanny valley: too detailed for us to impose our own fantasy, but nor realistic enough to fill the gaps otherwise filled by our own imagination. The gaps therefore become jarringly apparent.
.
The challenge of current computer games is that they are now just on the other side of the uncanny valley and are now forced to leap the gap. But they can't do that yet. So they are paradoxically experienced as more wanting and less immersive than the primitive graphics of yore.

I don't agree, however its an interesting idea. Take ArmA or DayZ, graphics are not that great, what they have is a world you can immerse yourself in and fill in the blanks. If you see a zombie you can stay in the role because you have some kind of interaction, even if its in a bloody way. I ED you are fighting the surroundings, you just can't get there. Yes the universe is great, its big and beautiful, at the same time there is a lack of substance. I know this is also a question of money. You will need a lot of money to develop a game that will give you the tools to be more immersed.

Let me give an example. You are in a USS, a NPC ship is there and want to give you an offer. He contact you by TEXT! sorry this is not 1984 I'm old I lost my childhood imagination long time ago. I need a voice over the radio I need to have some kind of interaction that is not just TEXT.

I hope this will be in the future because I really want to play the game for many years.

 

[Riedquat]

What concerns me most is the apparent lack of purpose of the AI ships, they don't seem to be doing anything.

I was hoping that every ship would have a reason for existence, but it seems that they are just there for the sake of it.

X3 did this very well, every ship had a role to play, which made for an extremely immersive game world.

 

[xDreadnoughtx]

Eve is not the only multiplayer game. Just don't see your point here.
Elite is completely different game.

Yes, but it just does not seem to compute.
Not that surprising really when so many people are clearly looking to move on from EVE?

It can be incredibly difficult to move from one thing to another! Been there and I do understand.

The most useful eureka moment is when you realise "I was dissatisfied or bored with that, but this is different, and seems to be flicking a few other switches, its different, and good, in a different way"

Cheers