Agreed, and I (and others) have made similar suggestions, however these reasoned ideas get sistematically buried by a fairly small number of determined fanatics who try to categorise the issues into their PvP/PVE divided vision of the game.
Ignoring or harming PvP in game design is contributing to ganking
- Thread starter Hole in Head
- Start date
Yep, Mr Braben did a good job there. Too many cooks spoil the broth perhaps?
More like "the chef leaves the kitchen and the interns and bean counters take over the shop."
But I absolutely agree that David had the right vision for this game. A pity that the suits "gently caressed" it all up. But that's the only thing that suits know how to do. If they had any actual skills, they would have a real degree.
You're making it sound scary to be an explorer who risk losing months of playtime in a few seconds for another players enjoyment. Fact is that that will only happen if the explorer is being stupid and/or reckless. Maybe fear mongering a better word?
If you want to compare ED to our real world; countries who have made war crimes look between their fingers of them. ED is the same.
![Gwydion [RoA]](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/177/177361.jpg?1568274749){kind=avatar}
If any Player gets killed more than once by surprise, I would assume this CMDR is Looking for a challenge. Or likes to explode, whatever. It is perfectly easy to avoid any "ganking" or whatsoever attempts, if you dont want to get ganked dont let it happen.
All this "why" discussion is fruitless. What really would stop this, is some kind of meaningfull PvP Gameplay, which we don't have.
All this "why" discussion is fruitless. What really would stop this, is some kind of meaningfull PvP Gameplay, which we don't have.
How could you actually pirate without people knowing? I have tried the stealth piracy in the rings - hatch break while they mine etc. But as soon as I do they know what I am up to. If there is some new stealth piracy I have missed tell me or I'll blow your thrusters to kingdom come!
In the game we have, you can't, not really.
It's one of the reasons (along with it not having any financial context, which should be the primary motivating factor for most pirates) why I ruled out PvP piracy for my CMDR.
Every system scan sold past a very low credit threshold is a BGS transaction that increases your CMDR's reputation with the controlling faction of the station you sell it to, as well as increasing the influence of that faction.
Exploration data is one of the most potent BGS tools there is and it can be used rapidly shore up falling influence, or attack the influence of others by bolstering that of a faction that still has some station or outpost to sell data to, but which may not be offering suitable missions or trade opportunities. Many BGS groups have pools of alts that do nothing but hold huge amounts of exploration data for just such work. It's probably the fastest way to shift influence, and is certainly the most portable and fungible influence currency in the game.
To add to this, you can avoid this risk by selling the data in a location where BGS is disabled. I believe a carrier now can work as such, if not, any system where the influence is locked is also fine.
Playing the game in a way where you have no effect on anyone else would take some serious dedicated.
Thanks. I had no idea. That certainly changes my thinking on the value/importance of explo data. I used to think that it only really mattered as a way of quickly increasing your personal influence with a particular faction (quite a bit cheesy in my opinion, actually). I didn't realize that you can boost "your" faction (if you have one, I mainly don't but that doesn't change that they're a factor in the game) with it.
Consider me educated and yes, that definitely DOES change my point of view on the value of explo data and the point of chasing it. Thanks!
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The main difference being those games were single player.
Yep, just higher bounties for the perptrators and a galxy wide bounty board would be a big step in my opinion.
As far as avoiding ganks goes ... my ganker-magnet Conda has been killed more than once at Shinrhata and I wasn't hoping to be killed and I had 2000hp shields. So I'm just a poor pilot ..
My point is it that maybe I am distracted for a second or I select the low wake button by mistake (must remap that) or whatever. Anyway I don't accept the " like to explode" part.The other difference being that the enemies you were facing in single player weren't complete, absolute berks. And the consequences of being a Bad Boy were very swift, very dangerous and really, really hard to get around.
As opposed to the absolute joke that Anarchy vs. High Security systems are now.
Being Bad back then meant high rewards, high risks of being dead.
Being Bad now means endless discussions on the forums while the griefers laugh.
Good job, Frontier.
Both types are as much needed as wasps as picnic quests.
Depends of viewpoint of attacked. To me that kind of behauviour leads to getting added to block list.
For me the motivating factor is achieving a result in challenging circumstances: there is a lot to do in a short time if you don't limit yourself to just launching hatch-breakers.
I have read pretty most of this thread, and can honestly say that I have absolutly no interest in PvP. Had there only been an Open Play I would not have puchased it.
What would be really interesting is to find out the actual number of those who play in Open Play and those who just play in Solo and PG. I would edge a bet that the latter has more. Then ask the question why so many don't play in open.
The lack of popularity in Open as far as I can see is that nobody will play a game whereby they are constantly being killed by a more advanced player with a fully engineered combat ship before even getting the chance to build up the engineering on their own ships. This is what is happening in the game of Open Play where there are gankers in every system that has an engineer.
Also with Player interdictions is near impossible to evade and this is solely on FDev's shoulders. The interdiction should be a case of "I want to PvP" and evading is "I do not want to PvP" and make it exactly the same is an NPC interdiction. Then you will eliminate the ganking and create a fight that both players consent to and it will also give the lower ranked combat pilots a chance to escape. Heck it may even have positive consequences (but hey I am a dreamer).
I will say there are many game styles in ED and it is what makes it so enjoyable and diverse and most of the players I have come across are actually respectful players and recognise one gamestyle is not better than an other as this is down to personal preference.
What would be really interesting is to find out the actual number of those who play in Open Play and those who just play in Solo and PG. I would edge a bet that the latter has more. Then ask the question why so many don't play in open.
The lack of popularity in Open as far as I can see is that nobody will play a game whereby they are constantly being killed by a more advanced player with a fully engineered combat ship before even getting the chance to build up the engineering on their own ships. This is what is happening in the game of Open Play where there are gankers in every system that has an engineer.
Also with Player interdictions is near impossible to evade and this is solely on FDev's shoulders. The interdiction should be a case of "I want to PvP" and evading is "I do not want to PvP" and make it exactly the same is an NPC interdiction. Then you will eliminate the ganking and create a fight that both players consent to and it will also give the lower ranked combat pilots a chance to escape. Heck it may even have positive consequences (but hey I am a dreamer).
I will say there are many game styles in ED and it is what makes it so enjoyable and diverse and most of the players I have come across are actually respectful players and recognise one gamestyle is not better than an other as this is down to personal preference.
General consensus appears to be that more players use open than the other modes.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Another difference was that the player could reload from any stored save game at any time, only losing the progress since the last load.
Oh, and to expand on the subject of why ED is a grief fest as opposed to the originals not being so, the "originals weren't multiplayer" doesn't work. I played those games. All of them. A LOT. And I did try being a murder hobo back then because I felt that I was invincible in an invincible ship that I flew better than anybody (which I did, because I was the only one there), and my murder hobo career was very, very brief.
Thanks to reputation and security forces. My crazy ways quickly earned me a rep where the only systems I might breathe in for a while were anarchies. The others, I was dead on sight.
Today's version of Elite. Not so much.
Funny how a game made thirty years ago fixed griefing before it was even a thing, yet here we are, Frontier still seemingly unable to do so because space legs 2021!
Thanks to reputation and security forces. My crazy ways quickly earned me a rep where the only systems I might breathe in for a while were anarchies. The others, I was dead on sight.
Today's version of Elite. Not so much.
Funny how a game made thirty years ago fixed griefing before it was even a thing, yet here we are, Frontier still seemingly unable to do so because space legs 2021!
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
While one Dev has indicated that a majority of players play in Open (with Solo and Private Groups both having "significant portions" of the player-base), another Dev has indicated that Frontier are "well aware" that the majority of players don't get involved in PvP.
Give it a few minutes and someone is bound to post a 2 year old quote from the Devs that Open had the most player of the modes (although it was worded in a way that could also lead to the interpretation that numbers in the other 2 modes combined may have actually been greater
)May have been, 2 years ago...
ETA: ninja'd by Robert