It's funny how "Blaze your own trail" has warped into "Have everything you want immediately"
Of course it should be "watch netflix to get everything you want". PP modules are an apotheosis of difficulty.
In system jumps.
- Thread starter LazyCalf
- Start date
Of course it should be "watch netflix to get everything you want". PP modules are an apotheosis of difficulty.
In case of exporing it was my fault, i forgot to say if micro jumps were only possible in inhabited systems. For the rest i must think about it.
I will not accept that there will be no compromise. The actual situation is not the best compromise, as it is no compromise!
It's funny how "Blaze your own trail" has warped into "Have everything you want immediately"
Not necessarily, read some of the suggestion that folks have made in this topic, its far from "hand holding/win button". Lots of good stuff in this topic that sadly never will see light of day in ED.
In the system I'm advocating most of these don't hold up, or at least have counter-balances. Added in bold:
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Stealthie
Banned
However, reasoning with you is proving difficult. As mentioned, it is very difficult to avoid this issue of unwanted redirects. The only guaranteed technique is to not play the game at all. If you are truly advocating the 'play something else' doctrine, then I suggest you don't hurl the words 'selfish, petulant and entitled' at others
I'm advocating the "do something in ED that doesn't bore you" doctrine.
If you feel that, in the absence of micro-jumps, it's so utterly impossible to find anything interesting to do that you're compelled to stop playing, it's not me who's holding the extreme position.
I'm glad you're not advocating the latter. The above however is not what I'm saying, but we risk going round in circles. The short is: Most of the things I like doing in the game run up against this issue. It is endemic.
EDIT: And addressing the issue seems more productive than ignoring it.
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![[Diplomacy] Carnegie](https://d2aefvhu2f0gi9.cloudfront.net/data/avatars/m/123/123809.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
I'm certainly not suggesting that there are NO good ideas in this thread - I've even provided some of my own
It's simply that in the last couple of months I've seen 'Blaze your own trail' be used as a justification for:
Choosing your own missions
Selecting which ship to log into at launch
Removal of C&P
Microjumps
I think some of the exploits were given the same treatment too.
1) 400 billion is an obscenely large number. We've not even discovered 1% yet. We're not going to run out, even with micro jumps. Exploration isn't exactly known for being super high payout as it is, so it's average credit to hour going up a bit isn't exactly a bad thing.
2) The rate that players earn credits has done nothing but generally rise since launch. I don't see why FDev would care to globally nerf missions to stop inflation they clearly don't care about. Additionally, you'd been repeating over and over that long trips aren't common, thus shortening long trips would uncommonly affect missions, thus average income wouldn't be affected much.
3) This is entirely dependant on the implementation. If FDev had the jump go directly to the station skipping supercruise entirely, then yes. If it only gets you within X (say, 1000 or so) light seconds, then no (pirates can just sit at that distance from the station, between the station and the star and intercept).
4) FDev clearly doesn't care about a level playing field for this. If you want to max your CG trade rank, you just run a max cargo build in solo and grind away. This is also only relevant in the first place if the trade run involves long trips, which you doggedly insist are quite rare.
5) See above point
6) See point 2
Point 4 is a poor argument.
The fact that balance is currently poor is not justification for making it worse. It's actually a reason for doing exactly the opposite.
To point 4: As i do very rare take part in CGs, are they that far away from the main star, that a micro jump would be neccessary / viable?
While I am absolutely against the idea of microjumps, one thing that I feel is absolutely necessary in any of the hundreds of microjump ideas that have floated over the years to at the very least, tie the idea to an ingame formulaic value. In other words, drop things like the arbitrary 100,000 ls or more and tie it to the barycenter of the stars involved, the proximate gravitational influence of the stars on the ship, things like that.
I would tend to agree, but the number of people I've had... "argue with much gusto" that the situation described there is perfectly fair and should remain unchanged and the fact that FDev has done nothing but make that gap WIDER implies to me that it's not going to change. I don't care to look up what side of the fence Stealthie was on in this discussions, but my gut feeling is thoroughly in the "it's fine as is" camp.
As he had repeatedly insisted that long travel distances are rare though, CGs should be a moot point more often than not anyway. FDev could also simply opt to not place CGs at distant stations, since CGs are manually added.
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Stealthie
Banned
Okay, so your fundamental "solution" is that micro-jumps should be risky?
Let's take a look at that.
Let's say I'm doing long-haul cargo missions in my T9 for Cr10m a pop.
I can stack 3 missions at the same time, before my hold is full, and they take an hour to complete.
That gives me Cr30m per hour.
Now let's say you're doing the same thing using micro-jumps.
Depending on how it works, you would, presumably, be taking a considerably shorter time to complete the missions.
You'd be completing them in, say, 15 minutes instead of 1 hour.
That's going to give you Cr120m per hour.
The most likely thing to happen is that FDev will nerf those missions to account for the ease with which they can be completed.
That means I'm going to end up earning a quarter of what I currently am.
Your use of micro-jumps affects me.
But I digress.
My T9 cost me Cr170m and has a rebuy of roughly Cr8.5m
If you're capable of, ideally, making Cr120m per hour compared to the Cr30m per hour that I make and the only thing "balancing" our relative earning potential is the risk of using micro-jumps then it needs to be risky enough to reduce your income by Cr90m
If the rebuy on a T9 is Cr8.5m, it'd need to be destroyed TEN TIMES PER HOUR to offset the advantage using micro-jumps grants you.
Given that you're making 4 trips per hour, it'd need to be destroyed more than twice per journey - roughly once every 6 minutes.
Are you really going to try and tell me that you'd be okay with your ship blowing up once every 6 minutes for the sake of "balance"?
*EDIT*
It might be worth pointing out, too, that if using micro-jumps is risky enough to balance against somebody who's not using them, you're not going to complete many missions per hour which would seem to undermine the whole "It'd be good for people who don't have a lot of time" argument completely.
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If I ever figure out how to make videos, I will make one of my average days, or a compilation of my trips, where the secondary system is several hundred thousand light seconds out, and record every second of supercruise.
Then someone will accuse me of not getting gud at supercruise.
Then someone will accuse me of not getting gud at supercruise.
Actually, since many cargo missions fail on ship destruction, you'd more likely end up with wailing and gnashing of teeth about how it was too hard, too risky, too punishing, and they should not be penalized for using micro jumps...and it would NEVER be acceptable to tell them "Well, just don't use micro-jumps then."
Stealthie
Banned
I see.
So, when an explorer rocks up in a system which has a body a long way away, the game needs to be changed so he can get there quicker.
Conversely, when an explorer shows up in a system where everything's already been discovered he can just go elsewhere.
So, why can't Mr Impatient just go elsewhere and explore part of the unexplored 99% in search of systems that are small enough not to provoke boredom?
Same selfish mentality at work.
Change the game to suit impatient people and anybody who loses out as a result can just suck it up.
I haven't been repeating that long trips aren't common.
I've been repeating that unexpected long trips aren't common.
If people choose to take on long trips then the reward is likely to be greater and, as ever, a person using micro-jumps will be able to earn much, much more per hour.
You're not thinking that through.
With fast travel possible, who needs to head toward a station directly?
It'd be possible to jump in pretty-much any direction, far enough to avoid potential attackers and then jump back to the station.
Mode isn't relevant.
All that matters is that a person using micro-jumps can achieve more than a person who isn't.
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I did the Hutton run.
What that really involved was me making lunch, mowing front and back lawns, and then having a dump.
If there are people out there that really think staring at a countdown timer contributes to their happiness then so be it, this element of Elite belongs to you.
If it's just an indignant "I did it so you can go through it too" then let's move to a better system and have BBC style microjumps?
What that really involved was me making lunch, mowing front and back lawns, and then having a dump.
If there are people out there that really think staring at a countdown timer contributes to their happiness then so be it, this element of Elite belongs to you.
If it's just an indignant "I did it so you can go through it too" then let's move to a better system and have BBC style microjumps?
Stealthie
Banned
Don't take this the wrong way but I suspect you're wrong on both counts.
The people who screw things up for everybody else are the relentless grinders who, when provided with any opportunity - however small, will relentlessly hammer the living poop out of it until FDev are forced to step in and nerf it, which screws up everybody but it will be, once again, the relentless grinders who wail about how "there's literally NOTHING worth doing in the game now I can't make Cr200m per hour!!!111"
And that's exactly how micro-jumps will be used the vast majority of the time - possibly only by a minority of players but they'll take advantage of it so that FDev will have to do something that'll screw the game up for everybody else as well.
It happened with skimmers, it happened with passengers, it happened with surface scans, it happened with skimmers again, it happened with scanning surface beacons, it happened with mode-flipping and it'll happen with micro-jumps. [sad]
At a more basic level, I simply don't understand the fascination these far away stations and stars hold for someone who at the same time want to go to them, but want to get there quicker. What do they offer that you can't get or do elsewhere?
Understanding comes when assasination mission USS spawns around planet in 323124321 ls from drop point.
BTW, I had suggested b4 that all future QoL improvements should be unlockable with rank. This way everyone will have opinion whether he likes something or not, and gains the ability to turn it off right where repetitveness gets boring.