In system jumps.

[nanite2000]

I'm a die hard explorer, and I wouldn't want this. You have to make a choice, is it worth it or not? For me, If there's an earth like, no distance is too far, especially an undiscovered one. Multiple water worlds, yep I'll go the distance.

Exploration offers far more rewards that cannot be quantified by money alone: vistas, planetary alignments, POI's, views, etc...

These are the things I'd like to see more of, and the current mechanic does not offer a nice way to do this when the distance is too far.

 

[nanite2000]

See you already have a simple solution for this problem. Jump to 3 or 4 NEW system and scan about 10 to 12 in the same amount of time as traveling 15 minutes to another planet or star in one system Easy fix for an easy problem.

So I should compromise my gameplay to suit your game style? That doesn't sound very fair does it?

So, for third time - how would an optional module negatively affect your game style?

But it eliminates the issue you are not flying 15 Minutes. Note I never had to wait 30 Minutes. Maybe you should throttle up could help with your time.

Or keep the mechanics as is and start using some common sense instead.

I'm trying to have a civil discussion here. If you're just going to be rude/sarcastic, then there's no point in discussing anything else with you.

 

[Lestat]

Exploration offers far more rewards that cannot be quantified by money alone: vistas, planetary alignments, POI's, views, etc...

These are the things I'd like to see more of, and the current mechanic does not offer a nice way to do this when the distance is too far.

Question why can't you just stay with smaller systems? We have 400 billion systems. It suited for both players. You can stay on smaller systems.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Worthwhile topic, OP.

I enjoy the Supercruise to intra system locations. It's a chance to listen to Galnet, or Radio Sidewinder, or just music. Not many games have long periods of Zen meditation. If the new jumps were introduced, I would probably only use them occasionally, but have no objection to the idea.

 

[Frenotx]

You do know you have a choice when you're in a system. If it too large of a system for you. Then jump to a new system.

I tend to look around on galaxy map to find areas that might be cool to look at or read the GALNET news.

See you keep ignoring this one fact. You have a choice. If it too far you DON'T have to do it. It the same choice I have. If I want to spend that time to explore a large system I can. It comes down to player choice.

I live in a small town. Between two large cities. LA and Bakersfield. I live in a town of 5,000 people. There no Starbuck or Walmart in my town. I chose to live away from Traffic and smog. It is also your choice to live in a large city that has those things it is also a choice. Just don't try to make my town into a large city because you love everything close.

I realize I have a choice. I tend to avoid excessively long super cruise trips as much as possible, but sometimes they're unavoidable. Since I go out of my way to avoid those long trips, I don't encounter them often. You however didn't answer the question I asked in that post, though- do you think it's good game design to have long stretches of nothing, ala long supercruise trips? You can say, "you have a choice" until you're blue in the face, but I don't personally believe that giving players the "choice" to partially avoid what I would consider very poor game design is good justification for keeping that poor game design as-is.

 

[Schmack]

I'm a die hard explorer, and I wouldn't want this. You have to make a choice, is it worth it or not? For me, If there's an earth like, no distance is too far, especially an undiscovered one. Multiple water worlds, yep I'll go the distance.

I have no problem with that line of reasoning. I would suggest that, once you've been to the planet, you should be able to jump back to it. Initial runs should be required however to establish the jump point.

 

[Schmack]

I see what you mean now.

Unfortunately, for zero-population systems (which is, by far, the majority of systems in the galaxy) the system map won't show a detailed look at a planet's surface until you've performed a detailed surface scan (by which time you're close enough to eyeball it anyway), nor tell you what materials the planet has. Also, if there are any POI's around any of the planets, these are also not shown in the system map.

So, there are several things that may never get seen or discovered because there is nothing to indicate it's worth spending 30 mins flying to.



Because basic and Intermediate scanners have insufficient range for even the primary star.

I have a better idea - why not have an optional module that you can choose to not equip so your current gameplay remains unaffected?

You can bet that if you could suddenly engineer your FSD to jump within the system, most people would do it right away. There was similar backlash type posts when I suggested longer jump ranges for FSDs a couple years ago. It was heresy at the time to mention it, it would ruin the game! Enter the engineers and FSD range increases... everyone did it. Now they say the best exploration ship is one with a long jump range.

The same would happen with intra-system jumps. The reason would be given as "remaining competitive" but a lot of these guys are solo players.

 

[Ayerc]

do you think it's good game design to have long stretches of nothing, ala long supercruise trips?

Explorers will almost always answer a resounding yes to this question. To an explorer, this is not "nothing," it is the obstacle. The entire journey (including the long, boring stretches) is a critical and integral part of the satisfaction exploration brings. When a button is added to completely skip this part of the experience, you render this play style crippled. Also important is being the first to discover something, to conquer this virgin frontier and carve a corner of history (even if only simulated history). Your intrasystem module allows for narcissists to gold-rush first discoveries (and claim the additional credit bonus). Explorers are forced to follow suit, or miss out on the intrinsic reward.

I honestly believe an Intrasystem jump module, if implemented properly, could really enhance the overall experience for all players. However given the system we have, E: D's current direction, and FDev's development resources, this presents a fundamental negative change to Explorers' gameplay with very minimal gains.

Given this, asking one of the three pillars of the community to sacrifice their own enjoyment for people looking for quick satisfaction, is a bit inconsiderate.

 

[Lestat]

So I should compromise my gameplay to suit your game style? That doesn't sound very fair does it?

So, for third time - how would an optional module negatively affect your game style?

See if all 400 billion Systems was the same size and are large. I would agree with you 100%. But we have to face the fact. 400 billion systems that are different shape and sizes. See the game caters to both of our needs already. We don't need a module to cater to your needs. If you want to put an effort into a large system exploration it will cost time and effort.

I'm trying to have a civil discussion here. If you're just going to be rude/sarcastic, then there's no point in discussing anything else with you.

You keep ignoring there are choices when we play. But you want an "I win feature" and to Ignore that choice.

I realize I have a choice. I tend to avoid excessively long super cruise trips as much as possible, but sometimes they're unavoidable. Since I go out of my way to avoid those long trips, I don't encounter them often.

At least you know you can avoid long-distance travel if you don't want to do them. Long distance travels one in a while not going to kill you.

You however didn't answer the question I asked in that post, though- do you think it's good game design to have long stretches of nothing, ala long supercruise trips? You can say, "you have a choice" until you're blue in the face, but I don't personally believe that giving players the "choice" to partially avoid what I would consider very poor game design is good justification for keeping that poor game design as-is.

I think it a great game design. It makes some systems feel HUGE. There not an easy button to get to point A to B. It still comes down to forcing a player to choose. We don't need modules ruins that choice. Then every system would feel the same size and that would be a small system. That would be boring.

 

[Schmack]

Explorers will almost always answer a resounding yes to this question. To an explorer, this is not "nothing," it is the obstacle. The entire journey (including the long, boring stretches) is a critical and integral part of the satisfaction exploration brings. When a button is added to completely skip this part of the experience, you render this play style crippled. Also important is being the first to discover something, to conquer this virgin frontier and carve a corner of history (even if only simulated history). Your intrasystem module allows for narcissists to gold-rush first discoveries (and claim the additional credit bonus). Explorers are forced to follow suit, or miss out on the intrinsic reward.

I honestly believe an Intrasystem jump module, if implemented properly, could really enhance the overall experience for all players. However given the system we have, E: D's current direction, and FDev's development resources, this presents a fundamental negative change to Explorers' gameplay with very minimal gains.

Given this, asking one of the three pillars of the community to sacrifice their own enjoyment for people looking for quick satisfaction, is a bit inconsiderate.

Exploring was cheapened by passenger missions that paid out exponentially more than actual exploring and turning in data. People became elite explorers without leaving the bubble. The same happened to trading and passenger missions. You could get elite in both between just two systems by hauling passengers.

Let's take mining as an example of how the gameplay could lean more toward long waits: What if you could only find precious metals in rings 10K LY out? You'd have to make a big journey to get there and back, and your haul would be worth a lot (should be). Barely anyone here would do it but some would. If suddenly it was suggested to put some metal rich rings in the bubble, those people hauling 10K LY would feel let down, as if their game was ruined by easy button players. However, there are rings in the bubble, and not many people actually mine them because mining is a grind but it's more interesting than jumping and honking, and jumping and honking is more interesting than watching fake stars fly by for a hour while your "immersion" excuse serves to placate those who decided long ago that's just how it is.

People already cheat the system by only scanning the high CR planets because the graphic display magically knows the type of planet before you even do a planetary scan. That's why you get to a system 20K LY out, see 33 bodies and the ELW is the only one discovered.

 

[nanite2000]

Asking one of the three pillars of the community to sacrifice their own enjoyment for people looking for quick satisfaction, is a bit inconsiderate.

I'm an explorer, and I hate the long distance travel times.

I honestly believe an Intrasystem jump module, if implemented properly, could really enhance the overall experience for all players. However given the system we have, E: D's current direction, and FDev's development resources, this presents a fundamental negative change to Explorers' gameplay with very minimal gains.

Here's a simple proposal:

* An optional internal module with a finite supply of 'jumps'. Bigger modules weigh more, but store more jumps.
* Each intra-system jump uses 1 'jump' supply, regardless of distance travelled (travel up to a maximum of 1,000,000 Ls distance).
* It is up to the pilot to manually drop out of intra-system jump before the maximum distance is reached.
* Intra-system jumps aren't instantaneous, but travel at a fixed speed 100 times maximum FSD speed. This makes smaller distances more challenging, and coming out too late or too early could still result in several thousand Ls of standard SuperCruise travel.
* You cannot steer while travelling intra-system.
* 'Jump' supply can be restocked at starports like ammo/limpet restock, but would be very expensive. Alternatively, restock would be possible via synthesis using high grade materials only (like jumponium).

The 'game' would be for pilots to:

* Weigh up the pros/cons of extra weight from this module reducing their overall jump range.
* Decide whether the cost of refuelling the module is worth it (to offset the financial bonus of long range passenger/haulage missions).
* Decide whether that 30,000 Ls distance is worth it (especially when the risk of overshooting/undershooting could still result in thousands of Ls SuperCruise travel).
* Decide whether to hunt for materials to resupply, or find a nearby starport and pay to restock.

 

[Schmack]

I don't have a problem with how it is now, however it's a bad argument to say it would ruin someone's gameplay when they would not be forced down that pipeline.

Also a few points:

1. If FD make SC half the speed it maxes out at now, it could take you twice as long to get places. Would that make the game twice as challenging as it is now?
2. If they did that, and you grew accustomed to it, then they decided to put it back how it was... would that make the game less challenging?

Technically you could create artificial wait times for everything in the game, and in fact most things have those built in already. Extending those wouldn't introduce more challenge. Patience and entertainment rarely go hand in hand. Ever see a concert crowd chanting "10 more minute of dark stage!". Ever load up a game and think "if this thing would just take twice as long to load, it would be so much more enjoyable"?

Many here enjoy what happens between time sinks. They don't enjoy the time sink. If this is the time you read Galnet or whatever, you can use the same time to do so in the station or you can still go slow and read away. I don't play a game called "Eliteangerous" to be lulled into a shallow sleep by boring time grind or to watch Netflix. I can watch Netflix without loading a video game. Could you imagine trying to play GTA V while watching Netflix or reading?

Perhaps the real issue isn't SC time, but the lack of content while in it.

 

[NW3]

The thing is, those long stretches of time required to reach a destination are one of the things that makes ED unique. Some people hate them; others like them. NO ONE is going to convince anyone to change their mind, so this is a fruitless discussion.

However, time in-game might possibly change your attitude. When I had only played ED for a few months, I would have been in favor of in-system jumps, but now that I've played a few years, I actually like the slow system travel. As someone said earlier, it makes it more likely that (while exploring) you'd be able to claim some far off planets as first found, because no one was willing to put in the effort/time to reach them.

That being said, there are 2 changes that I could get behind:

1. Faster supercruise acceleration/deceleration. This would hardly affect destinations like Hutton Orbital, but would greatly speed up in-system travel.
2. In-system jump gates. In some hi-tech systems in the bubble a jump-gate near the main star would take you directly to an in-system location. Initially there would only be a few of these and based on player reaction, more could be added.

 

[Commander_Brucitor]

It would be nice to have the option of which star to jump to. I feel like that would be a decent compromise.

 

[Schmack]

The thing is, those long stretches of time required to reach a destination are one of the things that makes ED unique. Some people hate them; others like them. NO ONE is going to convince anyone to change their mind, so this is a fruitless discussion.

However, time in-game might possibly change your attitude. When I had only played ED for a few months, I would have been in favor of in-system jumps, but now that I've played a few years, I actually like the slow system travel. As someone said earlier, it makes it more likely that (while exploring) you'd be able to claim some far off planets as first found, because no one was willing to put in the effort/time to reach them.

That being said, there are 2 changes that I could get behind:

1. Faster supercruise acceleration/deceleration. This would hardly affect destinations like Hutton Orbital, but would greatly speed up in-system travel.
2. In-system jump gates. In some hi-tech systems in the bubble a jump-gate near the main star would take you directly to an in-system location. Initially there would only be a few of these and based on player reaction, more could be added.

I don't think anyone here is hoping to change anyone's mind. They are hoping game designers read it. I've suggested half a dozen things at least that have been adopted including the detention facilities, interstellar contacts, being greeted by station command upon arrival and several others. Maybe others suggested it as well, but FD seems to take some ideas from the boards.

 

[Frenotx]

See if all 400 billion Systems was the same size and are large. I would agree with you 100%. But we have to face the fact. 400 billion systems that are different shape and sizes. See the game caters to both of our needs already. We don't need a module to cater to your needs. If you want to put an effort into a large system exploration it will cost time and effort.

You keep ignoring there are choices when we play. But you want an "I win feature" and to Ignore that choice.

At least you know you can avoid long-distance travel if you don't want to do them. Long distance travels one in a while not going to kill you.

I think it a great game design. It makes some systems feel HUGE. There not an easy button to get to point A to B. It still comes down to forcing a player to choose. We don't need modules ruins that choice. Then every system would feel the same size and that would be a small system. That would be boring.

Why let supercruise go as fast as it does? Doesn't that just make the systems feel small? Hell, why not cut out supercruise entirely, and have us just slowboat it? All this supercruise is just RUINING the sense of scale. Space is big, after all.

Long stretches of time where the player literally does nothing other than wait are not the only way to demonstrate scale and distances. If you honestly believe that IS the only way to make something seem far, then you are seriously lacking in creativity.

 

[NW3]

I don't think anyone here is hoping to change anyone's mind. They are hoping game designers read it. I've suggested half a dozen things at least that have been adopted including the detention facilities, interstellar contacts, being greeted by station command upon arrival and several others. Maybe others suggested it as well, but FD seems to take some ideas from the boards.

The minds you are trying to change are the developer's. I made a near identical post to the Suggestions board 3 years ago. It's been re-suggested frequently since then.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

I think they should add it in, but make it for solo mode only to encourage more people to join solo.

 

[[VR] Goooost]

I think the reason they haven't implemented this yet is because the travel time will become necessary real estate for the space leg mechanics to shine. There will be things that you'll want to do on your ship over the course of a trip, with the occasional interruption to return to the bridge. If they eliminate that time sink now, they won't be able to get it back.

I think a supercruise boost would be a good feature though. It would blow through fuel like nobody's business, and make the ship shake and wobble, and it would take the FSD out of safe operating parameters and cause damage, but it would help you:
catch up to targets you want to interdict.
get to places or escape gravity wells faster.
enhance turn rate.

But it would keep places like hutton safe because you couldn't boost all the way to hutton without going all fuel tanks and AFMs.

 

[Arindor]

A micro-jump which could undermine the ill-thought out concept of interdiction. So yes, I'd love this in the game too, although I would prefer a burst of speed while in SC rather than another instance loading screen. No extra modules mind you but part of the FSD.