Incrementally Improving PowerPlay - Blocking PP players only blocks communications, not instancing

[Rubbernuke]

It's an analogy. In this case, 'advertising' = hauling. There are different aspects of an overarching effort; not everything is smashing into other players until one of you falls over. Not everything SHOULD be that way.

Then you fail to understand my point. If everyone plays like you do, Powerplay is one dimensional racing. PvP would act as a filter making that hauling more difficult. This in turn means powers can't rely on 100% delivery rates, and consequently makes a large territory harder to maintain. This then ensures you never have a full bubble and that you don't have situations like now where the bubble is full and Powerplay becomes trench warfare squabbling over scraps.

I see zero ingame evidence that this is the case. Especially since most hauling takes place in neutral or allied space, where those players should theoretically be safe.

Currently there is little because modes come into play or blocking gets involved (hence this thread). If / once rules become cleaner then it becomes more important. Sandros proposals make prep sites, capitals, uncapped UM sites much more busy.

And your solution to this problem is to make things even less welcoming? The game mode needs more rewards, more incentives, not more reasons for players to avoid it entirely. Which is exactly what this suggestion would do.

Depends on what you want. You already have a fully features BGS and CGs, why does that need to be replicated again? Powerplay has to offer something the others do not, otherwise.....whats the point?

 

[Vetinari]

then they really need to make the PP modules available via other means

tbf that was in a previous proposal, They are all supposed to work with each other I think, just listed separately to discuss each in depth. the idea there was that they would be a Cr purchase from a broker or normal outfitting. (iirc with no restrcitions on purchase, no requirement to unlock)

The only proposal i havent seen which would solve the issue is to take away the hauling bit of PP, let that be done by NPCs and make it player combat only. then its only PVE fighters v PVP fighters, no innocent haulers involved in the argument and would be simpler.

 

[Rubbernuke]

no innocent haulers

This made me laugh. Haulers in PP are transporting slaves, drugs, illegal materials and worse

Plus, how can you be 'innocent' then you pledge to a power? Don't want to get shot at, don't pledge to a group.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Before i endorse or protest this, what does it mean for teabagging?

 

[DemiserofD]

Depends on what you want. You already have a fully features BGS and CGs, why does that need to be replicated again? Powerplay has to offer something the others do not, otherwise.....whats the point?

I think this is the most fundamental problem with powerplay. Because every argument you're making for pvp in powerplay works just as well for bgs or cgs or whatever else. Better, actually.

On a basic level, there's nothing that really sets Powerplay apart, no reason why territory matters, no reason for it to get mandatory(or even encouraged) pvp and not other modes.

Heck, it actually has less incentive to pvp, because BGS can have wars and CZs, powerplay cannot.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I think this is the most fundamental problem with powerplay. Because every argument you're making for pvp in powerplay works just as well for bgs or cgs or whatever else. Better, actually.

On a basic level, there's nothing that really sets Powerplay apart, no reason why territory matters, no reason for it to get mandatory(or even encouraged) pvp and not other modes.

Heck, it actually has less incentive to pvp, because BGS can have wars and CZs, powerplay cannot.

Powerplay is set up for PvP much better than the other two. It has explicit pledges, explicit territory, its own C+P, one of two roles (haul or shoot) . While its hard to know what someone is doing in the BGS its easy in Powerplay based on who they are pledged to, where they are and what they are carrying. You also have real time bounty boards and Powerplay UI as well (so effort can be mapped 1:1). All it needs is a push and its there.

 

[Northpin]

Blocking players only blocks communications, not instancing, if both players are pledged to Powers

Nope.
Blocking has the role to filter player out, not only communications. And PP does not make it special.
It's a self-policing way against trolls which unfortunately can be found in any multiplayer game, ED included.

Also, the Block function should work similarly on ALL Platforms
For example, on XB block is not controlled by FD, but by MS. I dont even block him in the game, i block him from the XB itself
So IF i block someone, i block him over the entire XBox Live network - i wont meet him in any XB multiplayer game - as it should be since that troll will not me in some other random game...
(I assume it is the same on PS)

 

[Rubbernuke]

Nope.
Blocking has the role to filter player out, not only communications. And PP does not make it special.
It's a self-policing way against trolls which unfortunately can be found in any multiplayer game, ED included.

Also, the Block function should work similarly on ALL Platforms
For example, on XB block is not controlled by FD, but by MS. I dont even block him in the game, i block him from the XB itself
So IF i block someone, i block him over the entire XBox Live network - i wont meet him in any XB multiplayer game - as it should be since that troll will not me in some other random game...
(I assume it is the same on PS)

The very worst a player can do is kill you in a feature and mode that allows killing. Blocking enemies makes no sense in Powerplay at all, whereas in the main chunk of the game it does. Otherwise you can block anyone on sight and remove them from your path.

 

[DemiserofD]

Powerplay is set up for PvP much better than the other two. It has explicit pledges, explicit territory, its own C+P, one of two roles (haul or shoot) . While its hard to know what someone is doing in the BGS its easy in Powerplay based on who they are pledged to, where they are and what they are carrying. You also have real time bounty boards and Powerplay UI as well (so effort can be mapped 1:1). All it needs is a push and its there.

Territory is irrelevant, there are no wars so knowing who's pledged to what is pretty much irrelevant, and who cares about 'roles'? All of this stuff is at best surface-level aesthetics and not in any way indicative of being useful for any practical purpose.

By contrast, BGS has explicit war zones where players can go to fight each other. That's as straightforward an example of pvp as you can possibly hope for.

 

[CMDR Foursyth]

Why is it only in online games that people think they can force their behaviours onto others.

I go to a football field. I choose not to play with the idiots, they cant make me, they really cant.

I go book a Badminton Court, I play against people I want to, nobody can force me to play with someone I dont want to.

Same for any other game ever, I choose who to play against, nobody thinks they can force me to participate.

And in Elite, you have the option to not pledge to PowerPlay. Problem solved. You can ignore this proposal and all the others. Because you don't want to play PowerPlay.

But if you want to play PowerPlay which is a competitive interactive combat-based contest between live humans, then there's certain rules. Mid-way through a football game you can just point to another player and say "they're not allowed to tackle me". So why would that be allowed in PowerPlay? The whole point of PP is a contest against other humans. If you want to go play with bots, there's still a huge number of things you can do in Elite.

 

[CMDR Foursyth]

Before i endorse or protest this, what does it mean for teabagging?

I'm confused - there's no "crouch" button in Elite - that's coming out with Odyssey.

 

[Northpin]

The very worst a player can do is kill you in a feature and mode that allows killing. Blocking enemies makes no sense in Powerplay at all, whereas in the main chunk of the game it does. Otherwise you can block anyone on sight and remove them from your path.

Exactly.. Hence Open Only PP makes no sense
And any improvements to PP have to be done outside of the box thinking of: Open Only / No Block...

 

[DemiserofD]

And in Elite, you have the option to not pledge to PowerPlay. Problem solved. You can ignore this proposal and all the others. Because you don't want to play PowerPlay.

But if you want to play PowerPlay which is a competitive interactive combat-based contest between live humans, then there's certain rules. Mid-way through a football game you can just point to another player and say "they're not allowed to tackle me". So why would that be allowed in PowerPlay? The whole point of PP is a contest against other humans. If you want to go play with bots, there's still a huge number of things you can do in Elite.

Again, powerplay isn't a football game. Perhaps a better analogy would be a biiathlon. Just because I'm not as good of a shooter as you doesn't mean I can't win the race, if I'm a better skier.

Competition =/= pvp. Pvp can be an aspect, but people like you seem to want it to be the only aspect, which is utterly unfair to anyone who doesn't enjoy it.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Territory is irrelevant, there are no wars so knowing who's pledged to what is pretty much irrelevant, and who cares about 'roles'? All of this stuff is at best surface-level aesthetics and not in any way indicative of being useful for any practical purpose.

By contrast, BGS has explicit war zones where players can go to fight each other. That's as straightforward an example of pvp as you can possibly hope for.

LOL Sorry what?

If I see a Denton pledge in Archons space and the UI says UM is going on, I know he is up to no good.

If I see a Winters pledge with prep materials in a system marked for preparation I know what they are doing.

Its not surface level at all- if I spot someone with prep materials I know what they intend to do regardless just as I know what merits people hold from the station Powerplay bounty board- its not superficial in the slightest.

Your mistake is not seeing that the entire bubble is a potential war zone. Unlike the BGS Powerplay has no real boundaries. Thats why Powerplay has its own C+P for the entirety of the bubble.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Exactly.. Hence Open Only PP makes no sense
And any improvements to PP have to be done outside of the box thinking of: Open Only / No Block...

I think you miss the point entirely. Killing is the worst someone can do, and yet its allowed to block people who might kill you in a feature and mode that allow killing.....

 

[Rubbernuke]

Again, powerplay isn't a football game. Perhaps a better analogy would be a biiathlon. Just because I'm not as good of a shooter as you doesn't mean I can't win the race, if I'm a better skier.

Competition =/= pvp. Pvp can be an aspect, but people like you seem to want it to be the only aspect, which is utterly unfair to anyone who doesn't enjoy it.

Powerplay is like football, or any competitive action. We all play in the same space, why is it you can travel without risk and make people vanish who threaten you?

 

[DemiserofD]

LOL Sorry what?

If I see a Denton pledge in Archons space and the UI says UM is going on, I know he is up to no good.

If I see a Winters pledge with prep materials in a system marked for preparation I know what they are doing.

Its not surface level at all- if I spot someone with prep materials I know what they intend to do regardless just as I know what merits people hold from the station Powerplay bounty board- its not superficial in the slightest.

Your mistake is not seeing that the entire bubble is a potential war zone. Unlike the BGS Powerplay has no real boundaries. Thats why Powerplay has its own C+P for the entirety of the bubble.

If I saw a patreus pledge in archon space, I'd assume...that he's going for the powerplay module, because that's what most pledges are pledged for.

I think you have a fundamental misconception about what powerplay means. The entire galaxy isn't constantly in a state of open war. Felicia Winters agents don't openly murder Hudson agents because they entered the wrong system. Torval agents don't blow up Duval space stations. It's a delicate balance of power in the style of game of thrones. Not a murderhobo bloodfest like you seem to want it to be.

 

[DemiserofD]

Powerplay is like football, or any competitive action. We all play in the same space, why is it you can travel without risk and make people vanish who threaten you?

For the same reason in a biathalon you're not allowed to shoot at the other skiers.

You want one activity - pvp - to dominate all other aspects of play. That's absurd and I'll never agree with it.

 

[DemiserofD]

If you want people to participate in pvp, don't try to force them to play, you'll just 'force' them to not engage at all. Again, remember the state of CQC.

You should be coming up with incentives for players to pvp, even on the losing end. Not more restrictions that will only hurt the game.

 

[Rubbernuke]

If I saw a patreus pledge in archon space, I'd assume...that he's going for the powerplay module, because that's what most pledges are pledged for.

How? You can't get a module unless you are of the same pledge.

I think you have a fundamental misconception about what powerplay means.

I think you do honestly. From the wiki:

At its heart, Powerplay is a battle for territory.

The entire galaxy isn't constantly in a state of open war.

Powrplay is eleven teams trying to screw each other over to be #1.

Felicia Winters agents don't openly murder Hudson agents because they entered the wrong system.

They can't directly oppose each other because they both Feds.

Torval agents don't blow up Duval space stations.

Same.

It's a delicate balance of power in the style of game of thrones. Not a murderhobo bloodfest like you seem to want it to be.

So why is it every power UMs via violence then?