Information regarding AMD RX 6000 series driver updates.

[Morbad]

Does that mean it's not the game?

It could easily be a reflection of Frontier treating AMD differently, or with lesser consideration, possibly because Elite: Dangerous was originally a TWIMTBP title, possibly because AMD has a much smaller market share.

The most major issues (Orange Sidewinder crashes) are resolvable simply by disabling native double precision, which should probably have been disabled by Frontier on every post Hawaii card since it can't offer a performance advantage on any newer consumer part because they all have radically inferior FP64 ratios (most everything after has been 1/16). Likewise, the game doesn't even know there are cards newer than the R9 200 series (which launched in 2013) and inexplicably uses different terrain shaders for AMD and NVIDIA, despite the NVIDIA shaders being smaller and working just as well on AMD GPUs if you rename them.

The remaining issues--the blue overlay and the much older lack of line aliasing--can't currently be fixed in native D3D11. The line AA issue can't be fixed at all and has been around since the launch of the 6000 series. The overlay (which appears to be a shader issue) started with the May preview drivers (same branch as 22.5.2 and later) and can only be resolved via DXVK.

Just go on the AMD forum and look at all the issues being reported (and ignored) for games being broken by the new drivers.

Any major change to driver branches introduces a pile of new bugs; just look at the known issues list for any GPU driver package (AMD, NVIDIA, or otherwise).

This doesn't imply any more corners are being cut than usual, and the usual is a huge number of cut corners and other optimizations, because strictly following the rules and matching any reference renderer would result in a categorically non-competitive product. AMD and NVIDIA can get 97-99% of the way there at the speeds we see, or get 100% compliance at a tenth of the performance.

I'm not even sure that the newer driver branch is less compliant...I'd need to see comparisons in output vs. those reference renderers. It's entirely possible, even likely, that the newer driver branch is, overall, more correct than the former, but that the game still doesn't like it, or that the driver hasn't received app specific patches for niche games yet.

Planet/terrain generation relies very heavily on the GPU via compute shaders, using them to a much larger extent than most games.

Instead of the details of the entire planet's surface being stored in a database somewhere and being sent over the network every time someone visits it, the game feeds the planet's "seed" into the generator and the GPU does all the work to calculate the terrain. Something is going wrong during that generation with the newer AMD's drivers (either it's returning values out of range or perhaps the game is using some sort of checksum to ensure all players see the same terrain, and there are inconsistencies) causing the game to throw Orange Sidewinders.

See above. This issue is, as far as I can tell, completely resolved, with no performance hit (and in D3D11), by setting PermitNativeDoubles="false" in AppConfig.xml. Which should be the default if the game detects any AMD GPU after Hawaii (because even an RX 6950 XT barely has more FP64 performance than ten year old AMD GPUs).

 

[Fixitman]

I tried to downgrade from 22.8.1 to 22.5.1 last night, and lost access to the Adrenalin interface. I had to do a repair install back to 22.8.1 for it to work again. I already had windows set to not include drivers with updates, but still got an error stating windows installed it's own driver. It was apparently easy to downgrade in the past, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

 

[Mika L]

I tried to downgrade from 22.8.1 to 22.5.1 last night, and lost access to the Adrenalin interface. I had to do a repair install back to 22.8.1 for it to work again. I already had windows set to not include drivers with updates, but still got an error stating windows installed it's own driver. It was apparently easy to downgrade in the past, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

I think you should try the Display Driver Uninstaller, when a normal uninstall has not been a complete success. I downgraded successfully from v. 22.5.1 to v. 22.3.1, but it did not change how the game crashes on my PC.

 

[Morbad]

I tried to downgrade from 22.8.1 to 22.5.1 last night, and lost access to the Adrenalin interface. I had to do a repair install back to 22.8.1 for it to work again. I already had windows set to not include drivers with updates, but still got an error stating windows installed it's own driver. It was apparently easy to downgrade in the past, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

It's still easy, but you need to disable getting drivers from Windows Update, or disconnect your internet connection before removing and reinstalling the drivers.

I think you should try the Display Driver Uninstaller, when a normal uninstall has not been a complete success. I downgraded successfully from v. 22.5.1 to v. 22.3.1, but it did not change how the game crashes on my PC.

Where, specifically, is your game crashing?

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's still easy, but you need to disable getting drivers from Windows Update, or disconnect your internet connection before removing and reinstalling the drivers.

I went hunting for some way to disable Windows' ability to update the driver by itself (something it seems to do very often as I'm on the WIP program) and found how to sort this in registry (and how to re-enable it).

I use the following text contained in ".reg" files:

Enable GPU Driver Update:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DeviceInstall\Restrictions]
"DenyDeviceIDs"=dword:00000000
"DenyDeviceIDsRetroactive"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DeviceInstall\Restrictions\DenyDeviceIDs]
"1"="PCI\\VEN_1002&DEV_73BF&SUBSYS_0E3A1002"

Disable GPU Driver Update:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DeviceInstall\Restrictions]
"DenyDeviceIDs"=dword:00000001
"DenyDeviceIDsRetroactive"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DeviceInstall\Restrictions\DenyDeviceIDs]
"1"="PCI\\VEN_1002&DEV_73BF&SUBSYS_0E3A1002"

.... where the Vendor and Device ID and Subsystem are taken from "Device instance path" information in the Details tab of the properties dialog of the appropriate Display adapter in Device Manager. The "[HKEY_..." line in the enabling registry patch is probably redundant but both work as is.

 

[Morbad]

I went hunting for some way to disable Windows' ability to update the driver by itself (something it seems to do very often as I'm on the WIP program) and found how to sort this in registry (and how to re-enable it).

I use the following text contained in ".reg" files:

Enable GPU Driver Update:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DeviceInstall\Restrictions]
"DenyDeviceIDs"=dword:00000000
"DenyDeviceIDsRetroactive"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DeviceInstall\Restrictions\DenyDeviceIDs]
"1"="PCI\\VEN_1002&DEV_73BF&SUBSYS_0E3A1002"

Disable GPU Driver Update:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DeviceInstall\Restrictions]
"DenyDeviceIDs"=dword:00000001
"DenyDeviceIDsRetroactive"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DeviceInstall\Restrictions\DenyDeviceIDs]
"1"="PCI\\VEN_1002&DEV_73BF&SUBSYS_0E3A1002"

.... where the Vendor and Device ID and Subsystem are taken from "Device instance path" information in the Details tab of the properties dialog of the appropriate Display adapter in Device Manager. The "[HKEY_..." line in the enabling registry patch is probably redundant but both work as is.

I normally, just use Group Policy, but your method is more specific.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I normally, just use Group Policy, but your method is more specific.

I wanted to stop the GPU driver update specifically rather than all drivers.

It's a pain though - because I have to reapply it each time I get a significant Windows update.

 

[Mika L]

Where, specifically, is your game crashing?

It crashes to desktop with a high probability when I approach a landable moon or a landable component of a binary planet system, do a fast flyby of a ring system, or try to drop into a POI in a ring system. It crashes without any error message before closing. The game just suddenly stops and closes. Then the crash reporter opens. It crashes 100% surely when I drop into a POI in a ring, but there is uncertainty in it when I approach a moon or a binary planet component. I have now reported at least 99 crashes with the crash reporter after update 12, and 14 crashes after update 13. But I have not played much after update 13.

 

[Fixitman]

I think you should try the Display Driver Uninstaller, when a normal uninstall has not been a complete success. I downgraded successfully from v. 22.5.1 to v. 22.3.1, but it did not change how the game crashes on my PC.

I made sure Windows update wasn't able set to download anything at the time. I suspect it just decided it already had something better already in storage. DDU will be my next step, but I doubt I'll have time before the weekend.

 

[Morbad]

It crashes to desktop with a high probability when I approach a landable moon or a landable component of a binary planet system, do a fast flyby of a ring system, or try to drop into a POI in a ring system. It crashes without any error message before closing. The game just suddenly stops and closes. Then the crash reporter opens. It crashes 100% surely when I drop into a POI in a ring, but there is uncertainty in it when I approach a moon or a binary planet component. I have now reported at least 99 crashes with the crash reporter after update 12, and 14 crashes after update 13. But I have not played much after update 13.

I've been trying to isolate a few crashes that have to deal with a small number of planets and coriolis starports, but can't really find a pattern to it, yet.

 

[Fixitman]

I had time tonight to attempt the downgrade to 22.5.1. Instead of DDU, I just selected the factory reset option. I also unplugged my network cable just in case. It worked, and all the weirdness I could remember and test is now gone. I also lost my game history from Adrenalin, but it doesn't properly track a bunch of games I play anyhow. Not a big loss IMO.

 

[CMDR Mag_Mha]

Are curved lines in supercruise (orbit lines, exclusion zones, etc) still broken wherever they are horizontal or vertical? If this fixes that, I'll be back by the weekend.

I think they still are. Since I don't like orbital lines, I don't play with these enabled.
It ruins the immersion effect for me.
I never had any issues while fuel scooping or FSD overcharging.
I don't need these lines to do it properly.

 

[Morbad]

I've consolidated the known workarounds for this issue into this thread here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/amd-rx-6000-series-driver-issues-workarounds.607423/

 

[aquilla]

inexplicably uses different terrain shaders for AMD and NVIDIA, despite the NVIDIA shaders being smaller and working just as well on AMD GPUs if you rename them.

holy molly , I just did this rename thing from TerrainComputeShadersNvidia.csa to TerrainComputeShaders.csa ,wow what a difference it makes to my performance , from 15 fps now to 25 on low and 20 on terrain medium , thanks morbad wish I'd known sooner

 

[Morbad]

holy molly , I just did this rename thing from TerrainComputeShadersNvidia.csa to TerrainComputeShaders.csa ,wow what a difference it makes to my performance , from 15 fps now to 25 on low and 20 on terrain medium , thanks morbad wish I'd known sooner

Interesting results. I've never seen an appreciable performance difference, but I'm generally testing with higher-end hardware.

 

[aquilla]

Interesting results. I've never seen an appreciable performance difference, but I'm generally testing with higher-end hardware.

yeah , major boost , even now turning off my amd fsr I get 18 fps , usualy is 12 to 13 , but with fsr anywhere from 20 to 25 , so big win
Edit , also the terrain now no longer looks like trash from orbit , you can actually see the valleys and craters nice and clearly , and close by much less static noise on the textures

 

[ForteanApe]

@sallymorganmoore are there any more updates from engineering FDEV side on these issues@ @Morbad is doing a legendary job trying to help CMDRs back into the cockpit, but it seems we're still being asked to roll back to 22.5.1, which will likely be auto-updated from by Windows unless people mess with their systems.

It would be much better if we had a fix from FDEV, ideally, which doesn't need the largely non-techie playerbase to mess with their systems to get the game to run.

Any update would be greatly appreciated, so thanks in advance!

 

[KronenBrg]

@sallymorganmoore are there any more updates from engineering FDEV side on these issues@ @Morbad is doing a legendary job trying to help CMDRs back into the cockpit, but it seems we're still being asked to roll back to 22.5.1, which will likely be auto-updated from by Windows unless people mess with their systems.

It would be much better if we had a fix from FDEV, ideally, which doesn't need the largely non-techie playerbase to mess with their systems to get the game to run.

Any update would be greatly appreciated, so thanks in advance!

I'm still strongly suspicious that the fault is with AMD given there a number of other games that also have issues after 22.6.

The work around on page 2 is still working for me, although it does prevent me snapping screenshots as I used to; it seems to give me an image from ~4 minutes before I hit prnt scrn!!? To resolve that I just run OBS with the buffer recording 3 mins, and then download it where I think it may have got a good picture!

 

[yianniv]

I'm still strongly suspicious that the fault is with AMD given there a number of other games that also have issues after 22.6.

The work around on page 2 is still working for me, although it does prevent me snapping screenshots as I used to; it seems to give me an image from ~4 minutes before I hit prnt scrn!!? To resolve that I just run OBS with the buffer recording 3 mins, and then download it where I think it may have got a good picture!

Try Method 2 on this. Works flawlessly. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/amd-rx-6000-series-driver-issues-workarounds.607423/

 

[KronenBrg]

Try Method 2 on this. Works flawlessly. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/amd-rx-6000-series-driver-issues-workarounds.607423/

I'll give that a go tomorrow, thank you!

Kro