Interdiction Dodgers

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Snakebite

Banned
agree - its a) broken in terms of the exit exploit and b) broken in terms of the empty space issue. I have also noticed this when interdicting AI traffic in OPEN. If I then switch to SOLO I dont get the empty space problem so its an online instancing issue for sure.

In the same way there is no pause button perhaps there should be coded no exit function. ie your ship stops and sits right where you left it .... with no pilot, as you exited.

Having done so much trading I have now switched to doing more combat recently and oh my I can see whats been driving a lot of people up the wall with other professions.

yep, Thats why we have nicknamed it to Elite: Space Trucker Simulator....
 
Poor, poor Pirates, we should make Taxes for player-trading and that Money then gets transferred to Pirates.
Sadly, that is not as completely far fetched as it should be; I recall players on Eve forums pushing to tax high-sec trade into oblivion since the profitable commodities in low and null sec still were not attracting enough fish to the barrel.
 
the underlying problem is that there is no significant penalty for murder in this game.

You can attack anyone and then simply pay of the puny fine...

Griefing is allowed by design...

They really have got to get a grip on this game.... Killing an innocent trader should result in a wanted status being posted *permanently* at every system within 100ly


this is a freaking awesome idea
 
agree - its a) broken in terms of the exit exploit and b) broken in terms of the empty space issue. I have also noticed this when interdicting AI traffic in OPEN. If I then switch to SOLO I dont get the empty space problem so its an online instancing issue for sure.

In the same way there is no pause button perhaps there should be coded no exit function. ie your ship stops and sits right where you left it .... with no pilot, as you exited.

Having done so much trading I have now switched to doing more combat recently and oh my I can see whats been driving a lot of people up the wall with other professions.

Can you imagine the cacophony of crying, if Traders travelled across the Galaxy, only to arrive at their destination (the entire point for them playing) and the Station decided to disappear as soon as they disengaged SC, because the Station changed it's mind and didn't want to trade today, after all!
 
id say its actually 100% of the pirate players, the rest are mostly Griefers.....

Maybe. That means there's not really many actual pirates in the game. If we had multiple commanders I'd be up for a real pirate career. huge bounties, hunted high and low, no docking privileges outside anarchy systems, upgrades hard to find etc.
 
Maybe. That means there's not really many actual pirates in the game. If we had multiple commanders I'd be up for a real pirate career. huge bounties, hunted high and low, no docking privileges outside anarchy systems, upgrades hard to find etc.


The difficulty there would be in providing a rough analog to "good guy" space. Even back in the Golden Age of Piracy, the pirates had strongholds and Tortuga and such.

I'd honestly like to see a sort of "mirror world" built, expanding on anarchy systems. Make piracy a sort of "career" profession, with legit pirate PvE style things to do to help provide funds, status within the assorted criminal worlds, such like that. Perhaps even pirate ships you can only get by having "rank" with criminal enterprises.

A run into civilized space should be dangerous for a piratical sort, and on the flipside, ducking into an anarchy system should be pretty hair-raising for a good guy.
 
The difficulty there would be in providing a rough analog to "good guy" space. Even back in the Golden Age of Piracy, the pirates had strongholds and Tortuga and such.

I'd honestly like to see a sort of "mirror world" built, expanding on anarchy systems. Make piracy a sort of "career" profession, with legit pirate PvE style things to do to help provide funds, status within the assorted criminal worlds, such like that. Perhaps even pirate ships you can only get by having "rank" with criminal enterprises.

A run into civilized space should be dangerous for a piratical sort, and on the flipside, ducking into an anarchy system should be pretty hair-raising for a good guy.

Hence my mention of anarchy systems. pirate bases were ramshackle ports unsupported by a manufacturing base comparable in any way to what countries had.

Anarchy systems need to be, like you say, a hairy run like they were in elite/frontier.
 
Hence my mention of anarchy systems. pirate bases were ramshackle ports unsupported by a manufacturing base comparable in any way to what countries had.

Anarchy systems need to be, like you say, a hairy run like they were in elite/frontier.


The only thing I'd want to avoid in such a situation is the perception that playing a pirate lifestyle has "punishments". It should be a different style of play, but not too much more substantially difficult than being a "good guy". I wouldn't mind the whole idea of not being able to dock up in "good guy" ports, having the police chase, etc, so long as there's the ability to duck into Elite's version of Mos Eisley and get things done.

Just needs a kind of balance and trade-off. Sure a pirate station, it's going to be more expensive to kit out your ship, you might be making do with jury-rigged stuff, but on the flipside, the local smugglers have great deals on "performance enhancing" drugs, lack of regulations means you can get some crazy strong (and crazy dangerous) weapons, and the Black Market guy has a stall the size of Wal-mart and is paying top dollar for goods that just fell off the back of a type-9.

Contrast with an authority station, where the police are protecting you, you've got a nice selection of ships, plenty of modules...but the SpaceFDA won't let you take SpaceAdderall to improve your reflexes, all your weapons are safety-tested and lower yield, and the dude in the hipster jacket claiming to be a "Black Marketeer" is only offering 10 creds for all these crates of Motrona Experience Jelly.
 
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Snakebite

Banned
The difficulty there would be in providing a rough analog to "good guy" space. Even back in the Golden Age of Piracy, the pirates had strongholds and Tortuga and such.

I'd honestly like to see a sort of "mirror world" built, expanding on anarchy systems. Make piracy a sort of "career" profession, with legit pirate PvE style things to do to help provide funds, status within the assorted criminal worlds, such like that. Perhaps even pirate ships you can only get by having "rank" with criminal enterprises.

A run into civilized space should be dangerous for a piratical sort, and on the flipside, ducking into an anarchy system should be pretty hair-raising for a good guy.

This is a great idea, you should start a thread....

Seriously I really like this idea.... Pirate enclaves and anarchy systems that give pirating missions.... +1
 
The only thing I'd want to avoid in such a situation is the perception that playing a pirate lifestyle has "punishments". It should be a different style of play, but not too much more substantially difficult than being a "good guy".

If you are a trader and managing to get blown up there should be a fail state that is a form of punishment for … well … failing at the game. If you are a pirate there should be as well those faile states, like for example blowing up a trader instead of robbing him. Actually it sounds kind of fair in the situation that the punishment for the trader and the pirate is kind of similar for failing. Getting a bounty that represents the same amount of credits that the trader will have to pay for blowing up sounds reasonable to me.
 
Hello Commanders!

* Murder is not serious enough: This is an interesting one that has a couple of different strands to unpick. Firstly, we are looking to add in a future update a change that will cause any bounty claimed to become a special, non-expiring fine for the perpetrator. The idea is that when you commit a crime you are expected to pay at some point. Currently some game play flow options remove the bounty completing when you are killed, which is not what we want.

It's also worth noting that a bounty is not simply a fine to pay (otherwise it would be called a fine). It is also a green light for you to be attacked. In fact, this is undoubtedly the more serious part of the punishment. I think we still have some way to go to tweak background events to pick up on Commander bounties more (as in, when you fly around with a bounty the game takes it into account when deciding what to generate in the game world near you).

We already have a system that keeps bounties alive when you are killed but they are not claimed (dormant bounties). I just think it would be too punishing to have bounties that kept on being active after respawning. Sure this would not be an issue for the tiny minority of super wealthy Commanders, but our data suggests that losing a ship is a non-trivial event for the majority of pilots - and having a more or less permanent target on your back would likely just stop people committing crimes. That's my current take, anyway.

We are considering bounty adjustments based on some difference metric between Commanders (for example, Elite Commanders getting slapped with a bigger bounty when attacking lower rated pilots, or perhaps based on ship strength).



Perhaps you could think a little more outside the box here. Having a bounty is nice and all (and the higher incidence of bounty hunter encounters that should go with that), however the real effect should be that you end up being a "known criminal". In high security systems this could mean things like being shadowed by police ships (or even being pulled over for "inspection" far more often)(i.e. They turn up far quicker and in larger numbers, a la "viper spam" in the original Elite). This effect could extend to having police ships show up if you interdict someone, even without committing an overt criminal act. Obviously there should be a mechanism to avoid this - tampering with your ship's ID etc. This would be illegal, perhaps but moderately difficult to detect.
Of course, to be fair you should get treated somewhat better than the norm in anarchy systems - you may even get assistance (unwanted or not) from "fans". It could perhaps change access to missions or even equipment - a known criminal would perhaps be less likely to be given high value transport missions but more likely to be given assassination missions.
 
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Snakebite

Banned
The only thing I'd want to avoid in such a situation is the perception that playing a pirate lifestyle has "punishments". It should be a different style of play, but not too much more substantially difficult than being a "good guy". I wouldn't mind the whole idea of not being able to dock up in "good guy" ports, having the police chase, etc, so long as there's the ability to duck into Elite's version of Mos Eisley and get things done.

Just needs a kind of balance and trade-off. Sure a pirate station, it's going to be more expensive to kit out your ship, you might be making do with jury-rigged stuff, but on the flipside, the local smugglers have great deals on "performance enhancing" drugs, lack of regulations means you can get some crazy strong (and crazy dangerous) weapons, and the Black Market guy has a stall the size of Wal-mart and is paying top dollar for goods that just fell off the back of a type-9.

Contrast with an authority station, where the police are protecting you, you've got a nice selection of ships, plenty of modules...but the SpaceFDA won't let you take SpaceAdderall to improve your reflexes, all your weapons are safety-tested and lower yield, and the dude in the hipster jacket claiming to be a "Black Marketeer" is only offering 10 creds for all these crates of Motrona Experience Jelly.

Really like this....

Pirate stations could perhaps have access to illegal/banned ship upgrades, stolen military equipment etc....
 
There is big problem with bounty. It can't be big - or it will create exploit ( an collusion: go and kill trader, and then I'll kill you for profit then I'll go and kill trader ...) The bounty is to be not big enough to be attractive for hunters, but less that pirate's ship insurance. But fine for "clearing" is to be big (maybe depends from victim loses), as well as reputation fall. The problem is only "returning" to normal life - maybe penalty have to go down in time.

You can just fine pay out a bounty in incremental junks, based on the damage that has been done to the pirate (aka insurance costs). Exploitation mostly solved.

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thanks for confirming then that the impact will be really small.
but that measn we really need 2 different profiles for open and solo, making money risk-free then spending it in open, this has a name, it's called cheating

That is working as intended and it is imho even a fine design decision to make an harsh open universe controllable even for the clumsiest players on earth, simply by offering the chance to recover in solo from literally any loss in open.
 
Just needs a kind of balance and trade-off. Sure a pirate station, it's going to be more expensive to kit out your ship, you might be making do with jury-rigged stuff, but on the flipside, the local smugglers have great deals on "performance enhancing" drugs, lack of regulations means you can get some crazy strong (and crazy dangerous) weapons, and the Black Market guy has a stall the size of Wal-mart and is paying top dollar for goods that just fell off the back of a type-9.

Just as long as by "top dollar" you mean a small fraction of what you would get for legitimate goods. Fences need to sell at below normal price, and for them to make a profit they need to buy at much lower prices.
 
Just needs a kind of balance and trade-off. Sure a pirate station, it's going to be more expensive to kit out your ship, you might be making do with jury-rigged stuff, but on the flipside, the local smugglers have great deals on "performance enhancing" drugs, lack of regulations means you can get some crazy strong (and crazy dangerous) weapons, and the Black Market guy has a stall the size of Wal-mart and is paying top dollar for goods that just fell off the back of a type-9.

Just as long as by "top dollar" you mean a small fraction of what you would get for legitimate goods. Fences need to sell at below normal price, and for them to make a profit they need to buy at much lower prices.

And by crazy dangerous, I hope he means something like a higher damage missile that has a small chance to explode before it leaves the mount. I mean, it is not like pirate equipment has to pass safety standards.
 
Just as long as by "top dollar" you mean a small fraction of what you would get for legitimate goods. Fences need to sell at below normal price, and for them to make a profit they need to buy at much lower prices.


What I'm saying is, a fence out in the middle of pirate stronghold anarchy land is going to give a much better price to someone he knows (our proverbial pirate) , over joe schmoe just wandering in. lets say, just for hypotheticals, said fence gives the people with high standings .75 on the credit for items. He gives random people just walking in .50 on the credit.

Your "black market" guy working over in organized not-anarchy space, he's got to put a lot more work in laundering the goods. Make THOSE black market fences a lot more rare, and give them, say, .10-.15 on the credit.

And by crazy dangerous, I hope he means something like a higher damage missile that has a small chance to explode before it leaves the mount. I mean, it is not like pirate equipment has to pass safety standards.

Exactly right. Sure, that beam laser might be cranking out %125 damage compared to a "safe" one, but it might just decide to blow up on you if it overheats. Crazy Bob, he packed these rockets FULL of explosives, and his own "secret formula" propellant, but it has a bad habit of just...exploding in the launcher when you deploy them.

That pirate ship you got, yeah, it's got some amazing power and weapons mounts, but.....well, we kinda had to put the RemLok in with some duct tape, it may not work. C'mon though, how many times to you REALLY need emergency O2 anyway?
 
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Snakebite

Banned
What I'm saying is, a fence out in the middle of pirate stronghold anarchy land is going to give a much better price to someone he knows (our proverbial pirate) , over joe schmoe just wandering in. lets say, just for hypotheticals, said fence gives the people with high standings .75 on the credit for items. He gives random people just walking in .50 on the credit.

Your "black market" guy working over in organized not-anarchy space, he's got to put a lot more work in laundering the goods. Make THOSE black market fences a lot more rare, and give them, say, .10-.15 on the credit.



Exactly right. Sure, that beam laser might be cranking out %125 damage compared to a "safe" one, but it might just decide to blow up on you if it overheats. Crazy Bob, he packed these rockets FULL of explosives, and his own "secret formula" propellant, but it has a bad habit of just...exploding in the launcher when you deploy them.

That pirate ship you got, yeah, it's got some amazing power and weapons mounts, but.....well, we kinda had to put the RemLok in with some duct tape, it may not work. C'mon though, how many times to you REALLY need emergency O2 anyway?

Michael, I do hope you're still following this thread, some fantastic ideas here....
 
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