Interdiction Dodgers

[SE-Apocalypse]

To be honest, and I'm sure this view is shared by many PVP types, we'd much rather have 1 trader in Open who gets it, prepares for PvP, and has a blast flying against us, than 100 people who throw their toys out of the pram and scream on the first interdiction.

That one person up there is a fellow Open player we can engage with and have fun. The other 100 are just background noise, and honestly only about a half-step down from an NPC trader. Quality over Quantity.

I fixed that typo of yours. Still have some rep ;-)

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Killers walk free in real life all the time. A life sentence in the UK is at max 25 years and often a lot less. So a permanent tag is probably unfairly harsh.

An acquaintance of mine had to face the killer of her mother 4 and a half years later already. And again PVP in this game kills no one, the designers decided that our escape pods will never be attacked and always escape.

 

[Rivka]

I fixed that typo of yours. Still have some rep ;-)

I should stop Forumizing after 24 hour shifts. You guys are just too much fun.

Why can't I quit you, forum?

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

There's no way that anyone would pay such a fine, so what's the point in it? People will just ignore them and stop at anarchy systems & pirate outposts.



It's a tricky one. Persistent bounties are just a route to credit farming by having a friend kill you over and over. Even a one-off bounty in the millions is an invitation to exploit. Perhaps a large fine should translate into a modest bounty that persists but diminishes after each kill.

The point of such a fine would be having a high bounty on your head. And you can stop exploiting this bounties super easy: Bounty payout is limited to the credit damage caused by the kill. Unless pvp players want to fly forever in their starter ships they will care about being targets for all bounty hunters in the region. Either they pay their bounties in insurance costs or they pay it at a security office, but they will pay for their sins. Sounds good to me. And if you want to discourage bounty trading even more than you can simply reduce bounty payout to 50% or even just 5% of insurance costs. Might take some time until your 15 million credit bounty from killing one full type-6 wears off with 5% ;-)

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

And you can stop exploiting this bounties super easy: Bounty payout is limited to the credit damage caused by the kill.

That's a damn good idea.

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

That's a damn good idea.

I would like to claim it as mine, even when eve is doing it now since a few years. ;-)

 

[LARY STARKEEPER]

If a player avoid game mechanics by disconnecting : REPORT HIM !!!

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

I would like to claim it as mine, even when eve is doing it now since a few years. ;-)

Oh, my mistake. It's a terrible idea if Eve does it.

 

[Jetset]

I've been interdicted 9 times in 2 days & the 4 times I lost I was pulled into space but no-one was there, believe me I looked! I was quite looking forward to losing my rail guns virginity (on my adder )

 

[Tigga]

Ummm! Why - as much as I don't want to - like that idea?

So if you kill someone with a belly full of cargo, you are fined according to the value of goods you deprived the other individual of.

Given this mechanic, what's to stop some of the murdered player's cargo also being re-imbursed? eg: 40% of its value? Does that open up an exploit or not?

I kinda like the fine being directly linked to the cost the trader pays. I also want it tied to the ship of the killer, so you can't flip to a sidewinder and have your friend kill you. On the flip side, I'd like to see each death reduce your insurance by 5 percentage points for the next 24 hours. This wouldn't punish dying a lot, but would punish reckless dying.

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

Oh, my mistake. It's a terrible idea if Eve does it.

At the other side. I had to campaign for that idea in eve for years before one of the designers came to the same conclusion and decided to implement this as their new bounty system. Took them like 8 years ;-)

 

[tagos]

We've just got to find a way to incentivise good Pirate gameplay.

This means heavily discouraging pointless killings for killing's sake and encouraging players to drop cargo rather than go down fighting or disconnect. Or stay in Solo. At the moment there's no disincentive to player killing and no incentive for traders to play ball because the risk is too great and the potential losses too high.

All in all it's a very poorly conceived set up that makes no-one happy except the people who just want to go around blowing people away.

As a peaceful trader I'd welcome proper piracy. But as things stand if I'm pirated I just have to assume that either way I'm going to end up dead whether I drop cargo or not.

As I trade in an Asp I will always try and put up a fight and if I get the chance I will fire first and if i'm firing on a bounty hunter who thinks it's okay to pull clean people over to scn them for warrants, well that's just too bad. I'm packing rail guns, cannon and multi-cannons and I won't take the chance.

 

[Arishka]

There is big problem with bounty. It can't be big - or it will create exploit ( an collusion: go and kill trader, and then I'll kill you for profit then I'll go and kill trader ...) The bounty is to be not big enough to be attractive for hunters, but less that pirate's ship insurance. But fine for "clearing" is to be big (maybe depends from victim loses), as well as reputation fall. The problem is only "returning" to normal life - maybe penalty have to go down in time.

 

[Briarée]

Nope. Nearly all the pure traders i know are already only playing solo or mobius. i would say it is safe to assume that 80% of the trader population does not go anywhere near open.

thanks for confirming then that the impact will be really small.

but that measn we really need 2 different profiles for open and solo, making money risk-free then spending it in open, this has a name, it's called cheating

risk vs rewards etc.....

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I've been interdicted 9 times in 2 days & the 4 times I lost I was pulled into space but no-one was there, believe me I looked! I was quite looking forward to losing my rail guns virginity (on my adder )

seems there is a bug currently with interdiction where the games goes trying to put bith ships in the same instance

 

[Briarée]

Ummm! Why - as much as I don't want to - like that idea?

So if you kill someone with a belly full of cargo, you are fined according to the value of goods you deprived the other individual of.

Given this mechanic, what's to stop some of the murdered player's cargo also being re-imbursed? eg: 40% of its value? Does that open up an exploit or not?

we could use the rep system.

killing a player will lower your rep (unless he's wanted but we are talking here about clean players)

the % rep is proportionnal to the value you destroyed, aggravated OR minored by the victim's own rep (if you kill a very liked pilot in a sidewinder, it can be worse rep drop than a rare filled type 9 who's pilot is really really disliked by the locals, you might even GAIN rep from it...).

now, the kicker, you still get engaged by police when attacking clean pilots, regardless of their rep, but should you have a bad enought rep, police WILL chase you really hard as long as you are there, potentially with overwhelming force so you can stay only for a very short time in said system even with the best equipment available.
they won't instakill you, but pretty close to it unles you fast.

now THIS would make pirate / murder as well as bounty hunting viable as a profession.

for the bounty, it could be tied to the value of the ship you destroyed (like 20-50%?) as to prevent any exploit

 

[Kaeda Maxwell]

thanks for confirming then that the impact will be really small.

but that measn we really need 2 different profiles for open and solo, making money risk-free then spending it in open, this has a name, it's called cheating

Except of course, that you have absolutely the same option.

Cheating is when one person has an unfair advantage of another, that is not actually the case here. Since you to have the option to do this. You may not choose to do so, but that doesn't mean you don't have the option. And hence it is not cheating since no unfair advantage exists beyond that which you chose yourself.

I think the solo/group/open in the same universe is an incredibly elegant design solution to having one world that can be influenced by all without forcing gameplay choices on people. Most games do this by having separate servers, or a toggle both of which aren't very elegant solutions. Separate servers destroy the global narrative that makes world building games so compelling and gives them depth and PvP toggles lead to confusion about who can and can't be played against.

The group play option is especially elegant since it allows extra rules outside the game rules for those who like that, which is great for role-players. Incidentally there is nothing stopping the people who adore open world pvp/piracy/murder/whatever from setting up a private group that encourages just this, and you could then police and rule lawyer it anyway you want.
So you can actually get the very thing you want right now! All you have to do is get organized find like minded people get the ball rolling and promote it! What are you waiting for?

 

[theirlaw]

But.... what is really getting on my wick is the number of ships that are exploiting the disconnect-to-get-out-of-trouble bug.. I think about 4 out of 5 ships that I try to interdict simply vanish from the scanner, i'm guessing that they simply pull the plug rather than risk an engagement.

Wow! I didn't know we could do this. Thanks for the heads up

 

[OCD]

If I could give you +100 rep, Snakebite, I would. This issue is verging upon being a game-breaker.

Sits back, waiting for the, 'you can't force me to play your way' brigade, to chime in.......................

For the record, no one wants to force anything, upon anyone. Just make your minds up and choose to play EITHER Solo, OR Open!

agree - its a) broken in terms of the exit exploit and b) broken in terms of the empty space issue. I have also noticed this when interdicting AI traffic in OPEN. If I then switch to SOLO I dont get the empty space problem so its an online instancing issue for sure.

In the same way there is no pause button perhaps there should be coded no exit function. ie your ship stops and sits right where you left it .... with no pilot, as you exited.

Having done so much trading I have now switched to doing more combat recently and oh my I can see whats been driving a lot of people up the wall with other professions.

 

[Briarée]

Except of course, that you have absolutely the same option.

Cheating is when one person has an unfair advantage of another, that is not actually the case here. Since you to have the option to do this. You may not choose to do so, but that doesn't mean you don't have the option. And hence it is not cheating since no unfair advantage exists beyond that which you chose yourself.

I think the solo/group/open in the same universe is an incredibly elegant design solution to having one world that can be influenced by all without forcing gameplay choices on people. Most games do this by having separate servers, or a toggle both of which aren't very elegant solutions. Separate servers destroy the global narrative that makes world building games so compelling and gives them depth and PvP toggles lead to confusion about who can and can't be played against.

The group play option is especially elegant since it allows extra rules outside the game rules for those who like that, which is great for role-players. Incidentally there is nothing stopping the people who adore open world pvp/piracy/murder/whatever from setting up a private group that encourages just this, and you could then police and rule lawyer it anyway you want.
So you can actually get the very thing you want right now! All you have to do is get organized find like minded people get the ball rolling and promote it! What are you waiting for?

cheating might not be the right word, but it is still not right that one can make cr wihtout any danger, then spent said cr in pvp

risk vs reward.

all long this thread trader complain about how it is dangerous for them to make money, yet they are doing the activity with the bes cr/hour ratio
it does somehow make sense.

but now, they can do it almost risk free, by playing solo

then they can go open and pvp with said ridiculous amount of money.

this shouldn't happen, thus why i, along many other, would like that open and solo being to complete different things, you want to spend CR in open? you have to make said CR in open.

 

[OneAmongOthers]

Players should be able to issue bounties on other players period. IT should be limited to a reasonable amount however. say 100.000 at the most. Also that pirate should also be deemed hostile to all empire factions. I do wonder though. Perhaps privateering will make a return. It would be cool to see factions offering "letters of marque" to players to hunt down enemies of theirs. This includes players as well.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

then they can go open and pvp with said ridiculous amount of money.

You can't buy PvP kills with Credits.

dunno what that fear of the mighty Solo Traders with there super-duper indestructable Death Stars is about. I do make trading in Solo and go sometimes in open where I might do PvP (not really seeking it unless I am in a Conflict Zone). And seriously, me and my Cobra is nothing you need to fear, I'm not that good.
Seriously, I'm not, its not a Joke. Because I'm not experienced in PvP. Should you still be afraid of my pitty skills and my Cobra that much, I do appologize for the terror my existence is causing.

And if you want to farm for a Python or whatever, you don't even need Solo, you can do it in Open somwhere where nobody is, its pretty easy to find empty places, because theres a lot of it. What does it even matter if somebody does it in Open where nobody is, or in Solo where nobody is? I don't get that.
Do wee need to shrink the Galaxy so nobody can "Cheat"? Is at some Point even owning a Python or Conda a Cheat, because how could a poor Pirate ever get that much Money, it can't be allright.

Poor, poor Pirates, we should make Taxes for player-trading and that Money then gets transferred to Pirates.