Interdiction Dodgers

[Xennon]

This has been an interesting read but I don't see any mention of any traders in slow, cumbersome and basically defenseless vessels reporting how they chose to stick around and *fight* their way out of an interdiction encounter or how a trader in such ships actively initiates interdictions. From what I can tell, interdictions are initiated by people in *fighter* type ships which by definition are designed to be offensive and highly manoeuvrable. Furthermore, I doubt interdictors go out of their way to target other well equipped/offensive ships unless they're looking to prove how BA they are or how 'leet they are. So - what am i rambling on about? Simple: If piracy and hunting down traders to steal their cargo is a legitimate pursuit in the game, and I think it should be, then I also believe that the victims should be able to adequately defend themselves (which really is not the case at present) by perhaps having access to weapons and defences that would compensate for the pathetic lack of manoeuvrability of the ships they fly. These could be weapons that will ONLY fit on trader type vessels even if they are biased towards defense alone would still give them some chance to *win* the encounter. At the moment, the only option seems to be to try and run like hell and escape which in itself is not very effective. I think this is why people pull the plug, because the chances of surviving such encounters (for most people) is probably seen as remote.

I play SOLO most of the time, as a trader and know 1st hand that these trader ships are just big fat cash cows with virtually no means to fight off any aggressor and my only defense is to try and run - and that usually works albeit with some battle scratches and scapes to tend to at the next port. The sad thing is, I would love to play in open play, where real people are and have some degree of interaction with them but against any aggressive pirate/griefer type player I know I wouldn't stand a chance in my old jaloppy of a hauler ship (even with it's fully decked out class 1 weapons)

Having some kind of voluntary PvP flag toggle (like in so many other mmo games), might at least allow those people who want to PvP to do so and those who don't to still experience the *community* play of open play without having to lock themselves away in the dark and lonely SOLO mode as present. And, giving hauler/courier vessels the means to defend themselves would (should) make for a more rewarding game experience for everyone. ATM, it's open play for the PvP fighter. pew pew types and solo mode for everyone else - or at least that's how it feels to me.

My apologies for the long winded response, but I felt I had to put forward one possible reason why the problem raised by the OP exists and how maybe it could be reduced if not eliminated.

 

[Cmdr Effie Trinket]

I still haven't committed to being a Pirate, despite many posts suggesting that is my goal. I don't know why exactly.

Still Bounty Hunting. I read a mission on the BB, stating,"go and kill two traders" and I just feel like it's not me. However, the idea of Stand and Deliver Piracy, is so attractive.

I think we should be able to knock out an FSD drive from SC, as a part of the Interdiction process, so a vessel being Pirated cannot simply submit, boost, boost, FSD. I guess most active Pirates will have discovered that shooting first, is the only way to make any impact? This reality then makes Pirates look like griefers to new players, when they experience it. I still believe that most Pirates are not griefers.

Pirates should be marked for life, if they murder their victims and have huge bounties placed on their heads. These Bounties should not be payable by the Pirate. Galnet News should have a Most Wanted Board in every Station, that lists any player who has murdered another player (even NPC's), in what system, the size of accumulated bounties and when the latest murder occurred.

If we had such a system, Piracy may become worth my attention, either as a Pirate, or as a Pirate Hunter.

It has to be acknowledged though, that some players do cry when they get a attacked and they see it as some kind of virtual bullying. Perhaps if your playing Farming Simulator 2014 and players Role Play as a Gypsy, and park their Caravans on your fields, preventing you from growing your crops, you would rightly call that griefing, particularly if the role of Gypsy isn't specifically designed into the game?!

A little common sense needs to be applied here, when discussing Piracy, from both sides of the table. Piracy exists. The current Piracy mechanic needs work. Pirates need to be allowed to be Pirates. However, even Pirates should go out and shame any player giving this noble tradition, a bad name. Traders should equally despise players who give other traders a bad name, when they self-destruct, or disconnect, out of some mis-guided notion that they are heroically denying the Pirate his booty. That Sirs, with respect, is just demonstrating that you are a little weak. The griefer, for he is not a Pirate, shows all that he is just a very troubled, disturbed person, of low character. Both players are damaging to the brand.

If we all opened our minds to this issue, instead of entrenching ourselves, Open could be so much more interesting; alive and dynamic.

If those amongst us, who believe they are superior in morals, because they don't Pirate, are allowed to passive-aggressively destroy Open, by painting it out to be a griefer-filled hell-hole, we all lose and Open dies.

This is why I jump in every time I see this anti-banter going on about Open; Solo players who play Open, then hit escape to Solo, lose nothing if Open dies, or becomes a place left only for PvP fighting, like some over-sized Arena. Therefore, all of us who enjoy Open, must ensure that no Pirate is left free to grief, and that no Trader is left free to Libel or Slander the Open side of the service.

Sorry for the rant. I know, it TL;DR

 

[Mikey2305]

Im unarmed and play 100% in solo and that is where i will stay. I really feel so sorry for the poor frustrated wannabe pirates ...

 

[deMangler]

This has been an interesting read but I don't see any mention of any traders in slow, cumbersome and basically defenseless vessels reporting how they chose to stick around and *fight* their way out of an interdiction encounter or how a trader in such ships actively initiates interdictions. From what I can tell, interdictions are initiated by people in *fighter* type ships which by definition are designed to be offensive and highly manoeuvrable. Furthermore, I doubt interdictors go out of their way to target other well equipped/offensive ships unless they're looking to prove how BA they are or how 'leet they are. So - what am i rambling on about? Simple: If piracy and hunting down traders to steal their cargo is a legitimate pursuit in the game, and I think it should be, then I also believe that the victims should be able to adequately defend themselves (which really is not the case at present) by perhaps having access to weapons and defences that would compensate for the pathetic lack of manoeuvrability of the ships they fly. These could be weapons that will ONLY fit on trader type vessels even if they are biased towards defense alone would still give them some chance to *win* the encounter. At the moment, the only option seems to be to try and run like hell and escape which in itself is not very effective. I think this is why people pull the plug, because the chances of surviving such encounters (for most people) is probably seen as remote.

I play SOLO most of the time, as a trader and know 1st hand that these trader ships are just big fat cash cows with virtually no means to fight off any aggressor and my only defense is to try and run - and that usually works albeit with some battle scratches and scapes to tend to at the next port. The sad thing is, I would love to play in open play, where real people are and have some degree of interaction with them but against any aggressive pirate/griefer type player I know I wouldn't stand a chance in my old jaloppy of a hauler ship (even with it's fully decked out class 1 weapons)

Having some kind of voluntary PvP flag toggle (like in so many other mmo games), might at least allow those people who want to PvP to do so and those who don't to still experience the *community* play of open play without having to lock themselves away in the dark and lonely SOLO mode as present. And, giving hauler/courier vessels the means to defend themselves would (should) make for a more rewarding game experience for everyone. ATM, it's open play for the PvP fighter. pew pew types and solo mode for everyone else - or at least that's how it feels to me.

My apologies for the long winded response, but I felt I had to put forward one possible reason why the problem raised by the OP exists and how maybe it could be reduced if not eliminated.

There is a very popular PvE group MOBIUS, but anyone can create their own. There is no need for a PvE toggle the functionality is in the grouping system.
I can't play open because of my connection, but I can see how it would be irritating for people to join the main open group and then leave it when they meet an encounter they are implicitly assenting to by being in the group in the first place.
It is like "I want to play... no I don't... oh go on then yes I do.... no I don't...."

I think this could be mitigated by some kind of d/c upon encounter checker frequency thing putting people in solo. It would be appropriate for both those deliberately d/c'ing and those with wobbly connections.

 

[Cmdr Effie Trinket]

Im unarmed and play 100% in solo and that is where i will stay. I really feel so sorry for the poor frustrated wannabe pirates ...

There we go again; 'wannabe' pirates?! Dismissive, aggressive terminology from a wannabe space-trucker!

See how that works?

If you like Solo, that's fantastic. I'm very happy for you, but please stop trying to destroy the side of the game that some other players enjoy. We can't destroy your Solo experience, so stop trying to damage Open. If you never play in Open, why are you even commenting.

I don't like Fords, but I don't go onto Ford Fan Forums and slag of the new Focus.

Thank you.

 

[N6MAA10816]

I have however been interdicted and come out to no one, just empty space, the other person could think I had pulled but it must be some bug in the instancing or something.

Agree Nick, has happened to me numerous times through the later Betas even till now...

 

[NeilF]

Five things need to happen IMHO:-

Traders are penalised if they keep dodging
The game knows if you are being interdicted, so if as a trader you keep dodging (your process just happens to end during an interdiction), after a couple of times, you are penalised in some fashion.

Pirates are heavily penalised for murder
If traders knew they wouldn't most likely be killed, they'd be much more willing to play ball.

eg: Bounties that cannot be simply paid off but which are retained for say X game hours before they can be?

NPC pirates do not murder if you play ball
Likewise if you hand over some cargo, NPC pirates will also let you go.

Dedicated jettison hot key
Allow a key to jettison one ton of your most expensive cargo (ignoring rares, unless there is nothign but rares).

This would allow you to quickly and easily "pay".

Make scooping easier
Picking up even half a dozen bits of cargo can get frustrating!



Alternatively, imagine if when a "Pirate" killed a player, it was immediately broadcast over coms, so any local bounty hunters could start looking in that system

 

[micky1up]

WHAT is the problem this is elite you can do what ever you want if that senseless killing then whats the problem just make sure the bounty system is better if you want to sit in a station all day that your damn right

 

[unironed]

The underlying problem is that there is no significant penalty for murder in this game.

You can attack anyone and then simply pay of the puny fine...

Griefing is allowed by design...

They REALLY have got to get a grip on this game.... Killing an innocent trader should result in a wanted status being posted *permanently* at every system within 100ly

+1 rep from me. Consequences of PvP piracy need to be far heavier before I come back to Open Play.

 

[DoneWithFD]

Without the dodgy interdictors there wouldn't be interdiction dodgers.

Just think about that.

 

[starjump]

Ok this has happened several times today, and to be honest its beyond annoying, its actually ruining my game and making me think of going elsewhere.

So I'm still doggedly playing as bounty hunter, and due to the lack of legit targets (i've not yet met a single human wanted player since starting this game) i've been forced to start interdicting 'clean' ships, I pull em out of supercruise and scan them with the KWS just to see if they have any bounties.

Now, i'm not yet quite ready to turn to piracy, so as long as they are clean I let them go.

But.... what is really getting on my wick is the number of ships that are exploiting the disconnect-to-get-out-of-trouble bug.. I think about 4 out of 5 ships that I try to interdict simply vanish from the scanner, i'm guessing that they simply pull the plug rather than risk an engagement.

TBH I wish these chicken poo commanders would just move over to solo mode, after all why bother to play online if they are going to chicken out of any contact ? They are just wasting my time and ruining the game....

FD REALLY need to sort this out it going to ruin the multiplayer game for many, otherwise


why not try something like this.

Once an interdiction tether is established you cannot pause or quit.
If you disconnect then the AI takes over your ship and you cannot rejoin the game until the engagement is over.
If the AI looses the engagement then tough, you loose a ship and its your own fault for chickening out.

If the AI wins, then its tough on the person that interdicted you.

This Game is Called Elite Dangerous, why have they made it so soft ?

I agree completely. That AI takes over is a good solution. If the commander were Elite then put an Elite AI in it if he/she quits. Simple and beautiful solution. If you have the odd honest disconnect then you know that at least your ship will try to do its best until you come in again.
|
Thats a second issue perhaps that has to be solved (unless it already works), but if you get an honest DC and your ship takes over, and if you now load back in quickly - what will happen? Maybe the easiest solution if FD cant get us into the pilot seat mid-action, then maybe you cant log back on until the fight is resolved. I think thats ok though. Better than being able to leave and face no troubles whatsoever (i chickened out once myself being on a tight time mission).

 

[Spacejanitor]

-snip-

I think I love you. ED and Open isn't about even footing fighter v fighter pvp, it's hunt and be hunted player interaction, and it needs to be supported. We who thrive from that player interaction need pirates to make trading/mining/exploring interesting, we need more pirates and we need more bounty hunters, and we need the game mechanics to support that properly.

 

[NeilF]

WHAT is the problem this is elite you can do what ever you want if that senseless killing then whats the problem just make sure the bounty system is better if you want to sit in a station all day that your damn right

A "pirate" can spend a couple of hours blowing up player Lakon 6, 7s and 9s for kicks, and then fly off to a station and pay a single fine... Voila!

Hence people asking for harsher measures - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101378&p=1573441&viewfull=1#post1573441

 

[lilikin]

The issue with 'sticky bounties' is they are a good way to make money out of the game. Player 1 kills his mate player 2 a few time and some other people to get his bounty to say 100k. Player 1 then lets Player 2 kill him in his sidewinder he just got into and collects the 100k bounty. Player 1 respawns with a slightly smaller bounty in a sidewinder rinse and repeat until their is no bounty left
.
Profit.....
.
My suggestion small server FINE for attacking someone or interdicting someone with no bounty the player who was attacked can shoot back without getting a fine if he/she wishes. Attacking a player more than a given number of times in a short period creates a bounty.

.
Killing a player places the bounty of a few K plus the cost of the insurance on top of the killer.
.
Bounty hunters then ONLY get paid the cost of the insurance the player with bounty on his head plus a couple of K. This means that you can't just clear off a bounty with a sidewinder with one kill then return totally innocent and make farming bounties with your mate a bad way of making money. This will also make fighting tough enemies with big ships and big bounties worth more than the same guy in a sidewinder.

 

[Carnster]

I've noticed the submission bug is also happening with NPC's. A number of times I've had them submit only for me to come out of SC to empty space. Admittedly it's not often but it has happened.

 

[tagos]

There we go again; 'wannabe' pirates?! Dismissive, aggressive terminology from a wannabe space-trucker!

See how that works?

If you like Solo, that's fantastic. I'm very happy for you, but please stop trying to destroy the side of the game that some other players enjoy.

And what would that be? Attacking helpless victims with zero risk and zero consequences? Piracy is the easiest, lowest risk option in the game. You get to pick your targets and you get to wipe the slate clean with a tiny fine.

While I don't combat log I don't care if others do.

Really I don't really care what changes will make things 'better' for PvP. It's a minor but very distorting aspect of the game as we see from this forum and the incessant demands to 'balance' the game around this minor activity.

 

[Mohrgan]

And what would that be? Attacking helpless victims with zero risk and zero consequences? Piracy is the easiest, lowest risk option in the game. You get to pick your targets and you get to wipe the slate clean with a tiny fine.

While I don't combat log I don't care if others do.

Really I don't really care what changes will make things 'better' for PvP. It's a minor but very distorting aspect of the game as we see from this forum and the incessant demands to 'balance' the game around this minor activity.

Bravo. I can't see why, with all of the tools a pirate can use, they need a "You must submit" mechanic. There's no guarantee that one path should make the same earnings as another. There's no guarantee that pirating should be profitable, let alone easy. If you want to pirate, figure it out. It's pretty cheesy when the bad guys want a hand-hold.

 

[Arthur_two_sheds_Jackson]

Ive only been successfully interdicted once by a CMDR and on that one occasion as soon as i dropped out of SC i crashed to desktop!

Logged straight back in to Open and had a message waiting for me from the CMDR saying he had reported me for exploiting, fair enough, he wasnt to know, but there are some issues with Interdictions at present. CTD's and such, and then this morning, I was fuel scooping prior to jumping when I was Interdicted. I successfully kept within the escape zone and my blue bar went full and his red bar dropped to nothing, yet the interdiction continued. I continued to remain in the zone with full blue bar and no red bar but still didnt escape.
So i throttled right back to submit and the blue bar dropped and the red bar filled and still didnt drop out of SC. so then i ignored the escape zone and pointed back towards my destination at full throttle and still the red bar was full and still no drop from SC.

This carried on for five minutes till i eventually pulled the plug and logged back in....

Its a bit pointless moaning about people bugging out till these issues are resolved.
Im only ever in open and assure you all, If you interdict me, I will try to evade but would never deliberately pull the plug.

BHL has an image to maintain after all

 

[tagos]

The issue with 'sticky bounties' is they are a good way to make money out of the game. Player 1 kills his mate player 2 a few time and some other people to get his bounty to say 100k. Player 1 then lets Player 2 kill him in his sidewinder he just got into and collects the 100k bounty. Player 1 respawns with a slightly smaller bounty in a sidewinder rinse and repeat until their is no bounty left
.
Profit.....
.
My suggestion small server FINE for attacking someone or interdicting someone with no bounty the player who was attacked can shoot back without getting a fine if he/she wishes. Attacking a player more than a given number of times in a short period creates a bounty.

.
Killing a player places the bounty of a few K plus the cost of the insurance on top of the killer.
.
Bounty hunters then ONLY get paid the cost of the insurance the player with bounty on his head plus a couple of K. This means that you can't just clear off a bounty with a sidewinder with one kill then return totally innocent and make farming bounties with your mate a bad way of making money. This will also make fighting tough enemies with big ships and big bounties worth more than the same guy in a sidewinder.

There certainly need to be some actual consequences for attacking other players. I'm happy for that aspect of the game to be there. I'm just not happy that it's an activity that inflicts massive costs on the victim and to all intents and purposes, none at all on the aggressor.

My solution would be higher bounties (no fines) that cannot be claimed by anyone who is or has been on the aggressors friends list. The progressive withdrawing of docking facilities until only anarchy stations are open. And claimed bounties turn into a login lock for hours or days.

If people want to play pirates let them really play pirates. Make it a serious career choice. Those sort of pirates I can respect. People swanning around picking on helpless freighters and facing no consequences - not so much.

 

[Cmdr Effie Trinket]

And what would that be? Attacking helpless victims with zero risk and zero consequences? Piracy is the easiest, lowest risk option in the game. You get to pick your targets and you get to wipe the slate clean with a tiny fine.

While I don't combat log I don't care if others do.

Really I don't really care what changes will make things 'better' for PvP. It's a minor but very distorting aspect of the game as we see from this forum and the incessant demands to 'balance' the game around this minor activity.

I think you miss the point, because your too busy making your point.

I fully support making Piracy more difficult, with massive bounties on the heads of the murders of clean pilots.

You seem to think that PvP is minor part of the game. Probably because, for you, you don't care for it and don't engage it? You may wish to consider that, in a game that clearly is in a state of constant, ongoing development, many do people like the PvP element and wish to see it developed and improved.

My real problem is with the people who are not interested in it, campaigning for its demise. If you don't like it and aren't ever going to be interested in it, please, do what you already do; play in group, or solo. There is nothing you can bring to the debate to improve it, when you declare from the outset, that your interest in the subject is non-existent.

If you simply want to pop up and declare your dislike and complete lack of interest in a multi-player sandbox, dynamic, unpredictable environment, well, you've done that. It has been noted. Thank you for your input.