Max 16 players in an instance, more than that creates problems. far less than that cause problems if some have poor connections.
Is it time for that Squadron discussion yet???
- Thread starter Vicktore Beskor
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Max 16 players in an instance, more than that creates problems. far less than that cause problems if some have poor connections.
Absolutely agree. A lot of what people are hoping for here is just bonkers - might as well chuck away the NPC world incl powerplay and all as it's just be clanwars all over.
I'm expecting a super-wings of a few hundred members with extra comms facilities. Some group management with a couple of tiers deciding who can add/remove members and who can request a move of the carrier.
There are trillions of NPCs out there. Even a big group of 1500 is a drop in the ocean - try and be realistic so your expectations are tempered before the hard iron falls
Hehe, need to disagree massively with a fellow diplomat.
Player squadrons and player factions have nothing to do with each other. One is a organizing container for a group of people, one is an ingame entity.
The separation of ingame assets as NPCs and the players is a clever thing. Factions should be totally separated from squadrons. Players should be able to pledge to factions. Any be able to be included in Squadrons. Tieing one to the other would severely limit gameplay.
- single players could never pledge to most factions, esp. When playing on different platform
- squadron players could never pledge for pet factions
- moving multiplayer BGS content (factions) to an organized player group (squadron) is neither a good idea nor is it necessary.
- there a player groups that dont give a damn about the BGS. Why force connect them to it? Organizing player groups is not a BGS activity.
Sure, whatever. I don't see the need for this but aye.
That's a sine qua non, IMO - you can't have squadrons without one. I do have major concerns about how and by whose hands it will work, however. FD need to do this right - I think it's the primary concern.
Sure, the carrier.
Yes, please. I don't really see this as a "squadron" thing though - just let players pledge to minor factions.
A lot will depend on the implementation. If, for example, the carriers are destructible assets, this would make sense.
Meh.
I can't see this happening.
A lot depends on the implementation. I'd far prefer one without such mechanisms - we're grown-ups (allegedly); we can sort this stuff out ourselves.
I think, personally, that this is implied by squadrons. I really hope it's actually rather basic and only capable of being used on fleet operations rather than enabling player-to-player or squadron-to-squadron credit transfer.
Again, this is a sine qua non, even if it's not actually necessary!
Not fussed.
As long as it's tied sensibly to faction mechanics, sure. It would be silly, for example, if CIU decided to just declare war on the Hutton Truckers - if we're pledged to factions the conflict mechanics should be tied to the minor faction we're pledged to.
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You monster!
I wasnt talking about full integration or 1 to 1 link to factions. I just meant that recreating the almost total disconnect that exists between the bgs and pp would not be optimal either.
If for instance squadrons had entirely separate activites - as in powerplay (fort/undermining) - i wouldnt see a huge point in them for bgs work. They would be a distraction.
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I very much doubt squardrons will be anything like powerplay. It will be a group system which can be used for anything, powerplay, BGS factions, possibly exploration like the new trip being planned for later in the year after the Q4 update drops. Think of yourselves as a mercanary group where you can choose to back your chosen faction, use squadrons for powerplay activities. Basically you can use them for whatever you want to. There will be no squardron vs squardron mechanics like powerplay. But I see no reasons why you can't use squadrons in that manner, it will be open to whoever you would want to use them.
Saying that I may be wrong and it could be just like powerplay, but I suspect and hope not. I hope they have learned a valuable lesseon with powerplay.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Squadron Wars is what I am worried about.
It will just turn into another Powerplay/BGS problem like we have now.
Everyone Hauling to the death fighting each other.
Its not because people dont want to shoot each other. They do.
Its not beneficial to outfit your ship with defenses and guns because you lose storage where shields and hull reinforcements would go for Open play.
You are actually at a disadvantage outfitting for Open play compared to the relaxed build youd run for private and solo.
you can get triple the jump range and cargo space(time) and no need for any of the engineering or modules in this game to effect that stuff. No need for Tracking limpets like sandro is talking about, no need for wake scanners or manifest scanners.
Everyone just hops into solo and private for the build advantage. Thats where the META lies when it would come to squadron wars.
THEY HAVE TO FIX what modes influence parts of this game. Or no one will put any effort into engineering. And all of the wars will still be fought in solo and private because thats where you max out your ships for maximum reward with no risk vs the people you are fighting against.
Its not about a choice, or I dont want to be griefed here.
This is about people that know the game. And know it well. 1500-2000k hours taking advantage of risk and reward and how the modes are structured. Removing key elements of the game like Engineers and PVP balancing.
And if they release squadrons in the same state. They have added something cool to the game. But the same problems still plague the game as far as player interaction goes. Once again removing some key elements of the game they worked hard on.
I dont see them continuing on like that. I see them wanting that player interaction. And I hope they balance the game accordingly to improve Squadrons and BGS Wars when it comes to PVP.
There is no way this stays the same. Its caused too much toxicity not being able to define legitimate "organic" PVP.
Instead of the staged PVP we have now because of these issues.
"Organic" PVP is where we should be. The PVP we have now isint supposed to technically exist.
There shouldnt have been a need for something like the PVP hub. But with the Modes, Combat Logging and different META outfitting when it comes to Influences or Cargo in powerplay. They only place to really enjoy PVP is through the outlets players have created. And not what Frontier has created.
No way the make the same mistake with Squadrons. They just cant.
Squadron Professions.
Exclusive to squads. Use the Squadron mechanic to introduce more content. Like offical system secrutiy that pays well but can only apply when triggerd by a full squad.
Or Direct station/startport takeovres than can only be triggered by a full squad using force and not grinding rep for days.
At the moment youre either a miner, a trader, a hunter or an explorer. It would be nice if some more professions or at least more variations of existing ones were introuduced.
Exclusive to squads. Use the Squadron mechanic to introduce more content. Like offical system secrutiy that pays well but can only apply when triggerd by a full squad.
Or Direct station/startport takeovres than can only be triggered by a full squad using force and not grinding rep for days.
At the moment youre either a miner, a trader, a hunter or an explorer. It would be nice if some more professions or at least more variations of existing ones were introuduced.
You may be in for an unpleasant surprise here.
As far as i can see, and what we have heard from FD so far, the modes and their equal influence on the game are an unmovable cornerstone of ED.
Everything else has to accomodate that, and it seems more than likely that squadrons will be no exception to that.
We've had several shows with 6 and 7 players, and found landing at the same station in the same PG usually works to get everyone in the same instance.
That said, I hope squadrons will expand on wings.
Wing beacons work well for four players, but we need something to help locate other friends in game who are not in our four player wing.
Eight player wings would solve this, but I'm not sure that's likely, so I'm hoping for some kind of squadron beacon...
Oh certainly hope not, but I can forsee the potential for it especially relating to the fleet carrier. It may be a group activity to gather the required funds/materials/commodities to build it in the first place, and then significant amounts of work to maintain it/move it.
Id better stop giving them ideas!
I would prefer that squadron internal organization is very generic, so that different squads can organize themselves as they like - anything from an anarchist collective to an authoritarian theocracy and everything in between.
How do you know the mistake isn't in the other direction - allowing it to become squadron wars and that's the thing they want to avoid?
I wouldn't have touched this game with another person's bargepole if it was all gangwar nonsense full of people trying to play space-emperor. A lot of the attraction is being able to take part in all the stuff without having to be in Open and put up with idiots.
Remember how large the PvP community is (as in not large) and ask yourself whether it makes any business sense whatsoever to give the two fingers to the vast majority of your playerbase and force everyone into PvP via mode-limiting and giving the gangwar fans the powers to run the whole bubble. It'd be their most stupid action to date by some distance.
Those gangwars kinda exist in game but the battle is via the proxy of the BGS. If you're trying to win via PvP, well you're doing it wrong.
It wouldn't be my thing except as a recreational side activity but some people do want to have the fun of large scale cmdr battles.
Also didn't someone claim to be the queen of Sag A?
Those gangwars kinda exist in game but the battle is via the proxy of the BGS. If you're trying to win via PvP, well you're doing it wrong.
It wouldn't be my thing except as a recreational side activity but some people do want to have the fun of large scale cmdr battles.
Also didn't someone claim to be the queen of Sag A?
Yeah having it obfuscated a bit like that avoids a lot of aggro. Large scale cmdr battles just aren't a thing, and if they enable more of the mechanics so that people can do it there'll be a constant EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE until it is - cba with that. FDev would be making a massive rod for their own backs.
If it happens you can forget it being a side activity. It will become all-consuming - imagine the disruption/fun to be had if you were so minded.
Q4. Come back in October.
I also know that you're wrong. I am part of "everyone", and Squadron Mechanics isn't even on my list.
I rarely fly with more than 1 other commander at a time, and only during group events do I usually even see more than a couple of commanders at a time, CG's notwithstanding, as everybody is mainly focused on themselves.
Let's pick at your list a bit:
1-Squadron Mail - We don't even have a mail system at this time. We can only receive messages. We really don't need this. Everybody has e-mail already, just use that.
2- Squadron roster - Ok, I can see value in this for those who just have to have this.
3-Squadron HQ - It's whatever station you call "home", or perhaps your Carrier.
4- Squadron being able to pledge to minor factions - We can't actually pledge anything except a Superpower. You simply support your chosen minor faction.
5-Squadron carriers having modules so that they can be customized - Are these even necessary? We know nothing about Carriers at all. I'll come back to this later.
6-Squadron colonization Mechanics - No one else can colonize, so no.
7-Squadron in game assets like spaceports and outpost - There are already Spaceports, Outposts and planetary installations. Park yourself at one and call it "home".
8-Squadron ranks and responsibilities - This can be done out-of-game easily enough. And if you've the skills, you can even make your own rank insignia and send them out to your squad members to sew on their flight suits themselves.
9-Squadron storage and bank - No. This will instantly be exploited into player-to-player transfer of credits and equipment. Absolutely no.
10-Squadron chats and voice Communication - /Q Hey everybody, welcome to the squadron. - Ok, I'm alright with this. And we already have Voice Chat, so I don't see this as much of a stretch.
11-Squadron content creation tools - It's called Your Brain. You will never have access to the Mission Editor, Stellar Forge or any other development tools. Cobra doesn't work that way, and you wouldn't know how to use it anyways.
12-Squadron wars - PvP has existed in Elite longer than even the notion of squadrons, so continue blowing each other up the same way you already have been this whole time.
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The Squadron Carrier:
We know nothing about these, except it's something they want to add.
Will they fly through space, like other ships? Will they be static like megaships?
Will we be able to move them about on the fly?
Will we have to put in a request to move them during Thursday ticks?
Can they be destroyed?
How do we obtain them? In game for credits? From the Store for cash? Do we actually "own" them, or do we "rent" them?
That's the thing about things we know nothing about - we can speculate and guess, and be completely wrong, or spot on, or at least in the neighborhood.
I envision these as being a semi-static, megaship-like vessel. You can move them, by picking a system and jumping there - I could even see these having pretty impressive jump ranges - 100, 200, even 500 Ly at a time.
The arrive in a system, at a point - not at a star like frame shift jumping, but somewhere in the system, more akin to the movement of capital ships.
They will likely have defenses like a station or megaship, to ensure people request docking and don't engage in firefights over the landing pads.
But that's about it. They'll otherwise function like really dumbed-down megaships - no missions, no black markets, probably no commodities, passengers, crew.. They'll likely have repair and refuel services and outfitting, but that's really about all I see, and really about all they should have.
Sorry, but your squadron is unworthy of being a pseudo-superpower, major or even minor faction. You're just a group of pilots banded together, and account for less than 0.000000000001 of a percent of the galactic population.
Even the weakest minor faction outnumbers you and could wipe you from existence in a moment by sheer numbers, or have the funds to simply buy you, body, mind and soul.
The last thing desired is for Elite: Dangerous to become Elite: EVE Alternative - because EVE is garbage, and that's an insult to garbage.
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Can't rep enough.
I only disagree in one point:
- They will likely have defenses like a station or megaship
I'd say hell no. Player groups want a bigger ship, but not another mega-monster killer. Remove the defenses and force player squadrons to defend their carriers using their ships.
Except, that like stations, players would have no control over these. They're there simply to clear blockages and ward off NPC pirates who want to chase you to the pad.
I'm thinking they'll simply show up in a system the same way other megaships just show up - as a signal-source you can drop into or jump out of, and just sit there. I don't think they'll actually be flown.
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