Is it time for that Squadron discussion yet???

[Mohrgan]

Wrong dead wrong.

its caused more problems than what its worth.

Want me to prove it? 5 GD years of Forum PVP and Hotel California.

Thats how stupid this is.

YOU NEVER, EVER make it so people can take objectives in a game where people cant defend themselves when they built guns and PVP mechanics into the GAME.

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Dumbest mistake ive ever seen made in the development of a game.

Its cause more toxicity with this community tearing each other apart.

Heres what the same people do, whine and cry about getting blown up for no reason. WHEN THERE IS NO REASON TO PVP IN THIS GAME AT ALL. WHEN OBJECTIVES CAN BE TAKEN IN SOLO AND PRIVATE REMOVING THE NEED FOR IT.

Wake up.

They left you the opportunity to defend yourself via PvE Buckets. Nothing else matters so everyone has the same access to the BGS. Shooting at Commanders is the least helpful thing you can do v. Elites mechanics. It is apparent that PvP is not a real big part of the game. You can do it, but it has almost no effect.

The problem here, is you expect everyone to see what you see. There are as many reasons to play E|D as there are players. FD has found and built a way for most if not all to find what they're looking for. Except stranded victims for your pleasure.

You have tunnel vision, focusing on a game aspect that has the least affect on the game, yet you pump it up to be the hidden meaning behind everything. Sorry, it isn't. PvP is simply allowed.

 

[DNA-Decay]

question: "Who gets to say who has access to the secure comms channel?"

The answer is "What secure comms channel?"
SEPP ran a popular and well regarded group entirely out of a thread on the forums. They were like the champions of being nice guys. Openness and transparency were their stock in trade and it worked for them. But as soon as you give each group the same tools, then you shoe horn them into having the same purpose.

What is a group FOR?
What does it DO?

These things get framed by the tools you have available.
Discord has radically changed the nature of many groups because the way we communicate removes a lot of history and continuity.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

They left you the opportunity to defend yourself via PvE Buckets. Nothing else matters so everyone has the same access to the BGS. Shooting at Commanders is the least helpful thing you can do v. Elites mechanics. It is apparent that PvP is not a real big part of the game. You can do it, but it has almost no effect.

The problem here, is you expect everyone to see what you see. There are as many reasons to play E|D as there are players. FD has found and built a way for most if not all to find what they're looking for. Except stranded victims for your pleasure.

You have tunnel vision, focusing on a game aspect that has the least affect on the game, yet you pump it up to be the hidden meaning behind everything. Sorry, it isn't. PvP is simply allowed.

No, Im aware of being able to use PVE buckets and so is Mobius.

We took Alberta off them in colonia.

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HERE LOOK FOR YOURSELF,

https://imgur.com/a/zgF1t

So just stop.

Right now.

Oh and by the way we were in Open the whole time. And the guys that were talking there in that screenshot are in this video, [video=youtube;9tobMVjSMnQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tobMVjSMnQ[/video]

Muten Roshi is an Alt of on the of the guys talking there. And I found Smokey in their private group. Watch the video.

They are there for the advantage of extra slots for cargo, instead of engineered defenses frontier wants us to use. Its a META problem, not a I DONT WANT TO PVP problem.

PVP has a major impact on this game. If it didnt, Mobius wouldnt exist. Now would it?

 

[Mohrgan]

No, Im aware of being able to use PVE buckets and so is Mobius.

We took Alberta off them in colonia.

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HERE LOOK FOR YOURSELF,

https://imgur.com/a/zgF1t

So just stop.

Right now.

If you won't see the trees for the forest, I'll leave you to your delusions. But, our little thing here is off topic. I would just like you to recognize that other players see a different landscape than you do. That's why there is more than one choice.

Squadrons won't settle the Open/PG/Solo debate, so let's work on the Dead Horse in front of us. I bet they even let people in PG's use Squadrons.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

If you won't see the trees for the forest, I'll leave you to your delusions. But, our little thing here is off topic. I would just like you to recognize that other players see a different landscape than you do. That's why there is more than one choice.

Squadrons won't settle the Open/PG/Solo debate, so let's work on the Dead Horse in front of us. I bet they even let people in PG's use Squadrons.

Whatever you say my dude.

If they dont fix, Frontier is only burring themselves even further in toxicity. Because they wont give PVP its meaning in this game.

Again, the same whiners cry about getting shot for no reason. WHEN THERE IS NO REASON TO BEGIN WITH.

you really think thats going to continue? Please!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Whatever you say my dude.

If they dont fix, Frontier is only burring themselves even further in toxicity. Because they wont give PVP its meaning in this game.

Again, the same whiners cry about getting shot for no reason. WHEN THERE IS NO REASON TO BEGIN WITH.

you really think thats going to continue? Please!

Not too sure how FDev will be burying themselves in toxicity. Looks like to me, that you want a completely different game to what FDev are building. This is a predominantly PvE game and that won't change after squadrons. All that squadrons will do is make it easier for groups to get together to do PvE stuff. I am sure for some PvP will also be involved depending what you use your squadron for.

I would think that squadrons will be available to people in all modes andmit wont be open only.

 

[Mohrgan]

Whatever you say my dude.

If they dont fix, Frontier is only burring themselves even further in toxicity. Because they wont give PVP its meaning in this game.

Again, the same whiners cry about getting shot for no reason. WHEN THERE IS NO REASON TO BEGIN WITH.

you really think thats going to continue? Please!

How about all of those whiners crying about peeps playing in a PG? It goes both ways. From my point of view, the toxicity doesn't stem from the Modes, it stems from those players who can't accept the modes. Most everybody I know, just lets people get on with their game. In truth it's the Open Only guys with their biased views that cause the toxicity. No one ever started a 'Close Open' thread. All of that stuff was started by players wanting to close or restrict anything other than open.

Let it go. Enjoy what you do, and let others do the same, and the toxicity goes away.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

How about all of those whiners crying about peeps playing in a PG? It goes both ways. From my point of view, the toxicity doesn't stem from the Modes, it stems from those players who can't accept the modes. Most everybody I know, just lets people get on with their game. In truth it's the Open Only guys with their biased views that cause the toxicity. No one ever started a 'Close Open' thread. All of that stuff was started by players wanting to close or restrict anything other than open.

Let it go. Enjoy what you do, and let others do the same, and the toxicity goes away.

No it doesnt work that way. And ill never let it go.

Its a CORE PROBLEM.

Its a snowball effect, its caused toxicity. Its caused a split in the community, its caused too many issues. And I will speak up about it until its fixed. And I will show the imbalance every single day.

Ya'll can report me, ban me whatever. You'll never get rid of me, or any other voices of open.

Because those people truly know the game.

Like it or not, its inevitable, sooner or later they will address this. Im personally going to make sure of it.

 

[Mohrgan]

No it doesnt work that way. And ill never let it go.

Its a CORE PROBLEM.

Its a snowball effect, its caused toxicity. Its caused a split in the community, its caused too many issues. And I will speak up about it until its fixed. And I will show the imbalance every single day.

Ya'll can report me, ban me whatever. You'll never get rid of me, or any other voices of open.

Because those people truly know the game.

Like it or not, its inevitable, sooner or later they will address this. Im personally going to make sure of it.

A certain group of player's caused the split, because they won't accept that other players have different outlooks. The Modes are, it's the reaction to them that is the problem. FD have already addressed the issue. They included the Modes from day one. Even before the Offline Mode was included. I will be there to counter your arguments, and we'll see where FD come down on the issue.

Maybe we should get back to talking about Squadrons. I don't expect Squadrons to be very PvP-centric. I expect them to be organizational tools, that don't put small groups, and lone players at a disadvantage, nor should they be a reason to join in and of themselves. Joining/Forming a Squadron should be about communications, not about gaining an advantage.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

A certain group of player's caused the split, because they won't accept that other players have different outlooks. The Modes are, it's the reaction to them that is the problem. FD have already addressed the issue. They included the Modes from day one. Even before the Offline Mode was included. I will be there to counter your arguments, and we'll see where FD come down on the issue.

You're not countering anything though. You're not showing proof of anything.

Here take this for example, Did you know you can use a python in colonia, Its the best for making BGS changes right? All smaller outposts. Cant use large ships.

Colonia is not a truck stop. Its all about player faction vs player faction.

Frontier wants us to Engineer, as a matter of fact. They just made it a level playing field for all. NO MORE EXCUSES for carebears. Its time to put up or shut up.

So in the python, there are 3 size 6 slots.

And in open, you would have to outfit your ship differently compared to solo and private. Here is why.

You can be stopped in open. And when you have 96 passenegers in those size 6 slots, with NO ENGINEERING THAT FRONTIER WAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNTTTTTT YOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUU TTTTTTTOOOOOOOOO UUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEE. People in private and solo can stack more missions because of the use of no defenses. No need for balancing PVP because of private and solo. And yet they continue to balance it. You really think they are balancing it for the "small minority of pvpers" Give me a break.

So instead people use that python with only FSD engineering for max range, Everything is stock. No engineering none of that.

However, you outfit for open, or survivablity then you lose at least 2 of those slots, for a good shield and a bank, then you have heavy duty skill boosters.

Once you outfit for OPEN play, you lose time, jump range and and cargo. Also you have the ability to stack more +++ passenger missions compared to the people using open play.

YOU ARE LITERALLY AT A DISADVANTAGE USING OPEN.

Not to mention, PVP kills do have a meaning in this game, you people never see it because of the modes.

If I kill you while you have a 20 stack of mission, not only do you lose rebuy. But you also lose influence and rep for your faction YOU ARE WORKING FOR. And time spent stacking those missions.

Dont pee on my leg and tell me its raining boy. You have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[Mohrgan]

You're not countering anything though. You're not showing proof of anything.

Here take this for example, Did you know you can use a python in colonia, Its the best for making BGS changes right? All smaller outposts. Cant use large ships.

Colonia is not a truck stop. Its all about player faction vs player faction.

Frontier wants us to Engineer, as a matter of fact. They just made it a level playing field for all. NO MORE EXCUSES for carebears. Its time to put up or shut up.

So in the python, there are 3 size 6 slots.

And in open, you would have to outfit your ship differently compared to solo and private. Here is why.

You can be stopped in open. And when you have 96 passenegers in those size 6 slots, with NO ENGINEERING THAT FRONTIER WAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNTTTTTT YOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUU TTTTTTTOOOOOOOOO UUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEE. People in private and solo can stack more missions because of the use of no defenses. No need for balancing PVP because of private and solo. And yet they continue to balance it. You really think they are balancing it for the "small minority of pvpers" Give me a break.

So instead people use that python with only FSD engineering for max range, Everything is stock. No engineering none of that.

However, you outfit for open, or survivablity then you lose at least 2 of those slots, for a good shield and a bank, then you have heavy duty skill boosters.

Once you outfit for OPEN play, you lose time, jump range and and cargo. Also you have the ability to stack more +++ passenger missions compared to the people using open play.

YOU ARE LITERALLY AT A DISADVANTAGE USING OPEN.

Not to mention, PVP kills do have a meaning in this game, you people never see it because of the modes.

If I kill you while you have a 20 stack of mission, not only do you lose rebuy. But you also lose influence and rep for your faction YOU ARE WORKING FOR. And time spent stacking those missions.

Dont pee on my leg and tell me its raining boy. You have no clue what you are talking about.

Leave your histrionics at the door, Pal. I am completely aware that you have no idea what I'm talking about. It's perfectly obvious. But, that's on you.

I'll leave you with: Fly safe Commander. o7

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Before we get squadrons, we need content for them to engage in. Otherwise it'll be wings all over again. Lol

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Leave your histrionics at the door, Pal. I am completely aware that you have no idea what I'm talking about. It's perfectly obvious. But, that's on you.

I'll leave you with: Fly safe Commander. o7

LOL. Yep, cant prove any of that wrong can you?

 

[Mohrgan]

LOL. Yep, cant prove any of that wrong can you?

Yawn.

 

[DNA-Decay]

Back on topic.

My problem with squadrons as Viktore B envisages them, is that they require methods of "ownership" and "control".

They want to to say who is allowed the touch their football. "It's mine. He's in, but you're not"

Every CMDR wants to start a group and own it and have other people join.

There are now 500 groups that only exist on one system.
And there is a lot of noise about what to do with these Ghost Wings.

Imagine Ghost Squadrons.

The key is that the factions are "ours" in the sense that
"We" work for the faction.

We advance their cause and build them up.
The faction is "ours" in that we put the effort in.
Not that we are gatekeepers and key holders.
Not that we have bosses and minions and a ladder to climb.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Wrong dead wrong.

its caused more problems than what its worth.

Want me to prove it? 5 GD years of Forum PVP and Hotel California.

Thats how stupid this is.

YOU NEVER, EVER make it so people can take objectives in a game where people cant defend themselves when they built guns and PVP mechanics into the GAME.

I really dont care what people say anymore about solo and private and the circle jerking you guys do with it.

Its stupid.

Dumbest mistake ive ever seen made in the development of a game.

Its cause more toxicity with this community tearing each other apart.

Heres what the same people do, whine and cry about getting blown up for no reason. WHEN THERE IS NO REASON TO PVP IN THIS GAME AT ALL. WHEN OBJECTIVES CAN BE TAKEN IN SOLO AND PRIVATE REMOVING THE NEED FOR IT.

Wake up.

A small minority have been railing for years against modes, meanwhile a majority enjoy and take advantage of the benefits modes provide.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any system. Just because it doesn't match what you want, doesn't mean its wrong or stupid. All it means is your loss is someone else's gain. Sorry bud, that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

 

[Mohrgan]

Back on topic.

My problem with squadrons as Viktore B envisages them, is that they require methods of "ownership" and "control".

They want to to say who is allowed the touch their football. "It's mine. He's in, but you're not"

Every CMDR wants to start a group and own it and have other people join.

There are now 500 groups that only exist on one system.
And there is a lot of noise about what to do with these Ghost Wings.

Imagine Ghost Squadrons.

The key is that the factions are "ours" in the sense that
"We" work for the faction.

We advance their cause and build them up.
The faction is "ours" in that we put the effort in.
Not that we are gatekeepers and key holders.
Not that we have bosses and minions and a ladder to climb.

I applaud the fact that everything is filtered through the BGS. Universal Access makes it the perfect mechanism for a diverse audience. Seeing how FD have preserved that, I think you are right. Squadrons will be about players interacting, and the BGS will remain the conduit for contests, even between Player Groups.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

A small minority have been railing for years against modes, meanwhile a majority enjoy and take advantage of the benefits modes provide.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any system. Just because it doesn't match what you want, doesn't mean its wrong or stupid. All it means is your loss is someone else's gain. Sorry bud, that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Its not good for ANYONE.

All this dont force a play style on me. They want people to PVP. They want player factions fighting.

But someon can force BGS fights on others. The door swings both ways here.

Its ruined because of the modes. PERIOD. There is no arguing it.

People that are against such as yourself are selective with your arguments.

you even make posts trying to remove pvp, and you were a mod at that time doing it.

Just move along.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

This is what is wrong with EVE and Viktore and the Feds in general.
Canonn are not organised anything like this.
Communism Interstellar are not organised like this.
The Fuel Rats are not organised like this.
The AEDC is not organised like this.
SEPP are not organised like this.

I don't think even SDC are organised like this.

The one thing that Elite Dangerous has going for it is the plurality of organisational types for playergroups.

The hierarchical model with one owner at the top might work for Earth Defense Fleet.

But many folks aren't knuckle dragging, truck driving, Harley riding, MAGA hat wearing, redneck flag saluters, and we aim for something better.

Heh, i laughed. But you are right in that many groups are not organized like this.

We are like this:

[video=youtube;R7qT-C-0ajI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7qT-C-0ajI[/video]

However, for mechanics sake, there does need to be some method of joining and control, even though i'm not a fan of it. One leader though is risky. I think there needs to be room for multiple people with ultimate control, and if wanted, then a group could let all members be admins (or wing commanders or whatever). Basically like Discord, provide the tools to allow any sort of group management/governance.

Then we could have Dictatorships, Democracies, Triumvirates, or even Theocracies.... all hail the FSM, may his noodly appendage bless you!

 

[Marcus Tullius]

Back on topic.

My problem with squadrons as Viktore B envisages them, is that they require methods of "ownership" and "control".

They want to to say who is allowed the touch their football. "It's mine. He's in, but you're not"

Every CMDR wants to start a group and own it and have other people join.

There are now 500 groups that only exist on one system.
And there is a lot of noise about what to do with these Ghost Wings.

Imagine Ghost Squadrons.

The key is that the factions are "ours" in the sense that
"We" work for the faction.

We advance their cause and build them up.
The faction is "ours" in that we put the effort in.
Not that we are gatekeepers and key holders.
Not that we have bosses and minions and a ladder to climb.

Except that, you are messing the reasons with consequences. The reason for Ghost Wings is lack of Viktore B’s elements of the game. People with common sense prefer to do meaningful activities even in videogame. The present situation with Player Wings is meaningless and so we have 500 Ghost Wings. The issue with BGS caused by Ghost Wings is the last thing FD should be concerned, on the first place stays lost customers.