Is it time once again to nerf the Python?

nathdixon92

nathdixon92
clinton said:
Yeah, putting SCBs in the utility spots would be a great idea, so they're useful for combat ships, not multirole ships. This will buff the FDL as it has plenty of util mounts (though it's still short on power).

I'd just make SCB one shot utility devices that recharged the shield by 10-50%, exactly the same price/cost/power usage as boosters (but which are 4-20% only). Also, this 10-50% will be based on the already boosted value, not the base value, so they'll become more effective if you mix them with boosters not just stack a bunch of them. And if they're powered down they should need to be recharged at a station (the ships powerplant can only maintain power in the boosters, not charge them).
Click to expand...

Nah I think the base shield value would be a better option :).

I created a poll/discussion thread about my suggestion in the Dangerous Suggestion forum to help combat this thread getting off topic :D

(a shameless plug but hey!)
 
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Jockey79

Jockey79
LeetNoob said:
Sounds like a few FDL lovers with a lot of butthurt.
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Well, as I said before - on paper something does seem a little off with the FDL fittings / Stats.
Perhaps it does need some TLC to bring it in line with it's price tag.

Nerfing another ship in the process though is not the answer to fixing the FDL.
Nerfing any ship to fix SCBs is also not the answer.

It's a shame some people get so attached to the nerf bat they forget how to play the game and just want to go swinging until thier play style is the better.... then another person glued to the nerf bat has a swing at what is left and the process starts again.
 

Khazid

K
So, since python is described as a well armed trader - gunboat, I guess it means it is designed to trade without getting killed. There is no other trader ship that can fit that description, you pay premium for a well protected ship, that can trade, but cannot kill anything due to speed limitation.

Yes your combat designed FDL cannot kill it (1v1) and if you stay around python weapon range you probably die first, but you can always leave, python will never catch you... Python can just sit and wait for FDL or any other combat ship to come at it. It is designed to withstand pirate attempts mostly. It's not broken, or needs a nerf. It costs more than the FDL and other ships for a reason. Is it so unreasonable that someone designed a ship to withstand guns and trade at the same time? What is most needed is a shipthat is designed to fight, costs 65 mil base price and can kill the python. But then people will complain they cannot kill the fortress called anaconda.

Sometimes I think people just hate that they cannot kill a python without a wing. It cannot kill you, you cannot kill it, it does not hurt your game experience as it is the ship that can trade in relative safety, and that is why it was designed.
Then again perhaps people buy an FDL they so wanted, realise how hard it is to pilot effectively and get owned by pythons, which makes them post without giving it time.

I never thought I d see a T7 - python related nerf post though... too different ships to compare and a lot of credits between them. But T7 could do with a few more cargo holds... why would anyone pick it when coming from the Asp? Just clipp away.

PS I 've only flown python, FDL and Asp from all the discussed ships.
 

Cruis.In

C
WHo said the FDL is gimped?

http://coriolis.io/outfit/fer_de_la...0404044a5d5d532h.Iw18aQ==.Aw18aQ==?bn=PVP FDL

Highlights:

1000+ shields
19 DPS (you can change your weapon loadout to what you like)
788 Armor
292/393 speed
3 shield cell banks (12 cells)

In anyone's objective opinion, this does the role of combat fighter, or combat, better than the python. So all that talk about how the Python being a multipurpose ship, but is better in any configured roll than the specialized ships is crap.

In it's best configured fighter roll, the python has less shields than the FDL, less damage output.

I hope FD runs through all the possible configs and runs the numbers before listening to someone make statements like "the python in its combat fit, is better than the specialized FDL"

The utility mounts on the FDL alone is awesome. Perfect balance. So I stand corrected, even the pricing is fine.
 

Muetdhiver

Muetdhiver
IMO the FDL could live with a slightly larger jump range (16lyr?),
and the T7 could do with a bit more hold (compared to clipper) and have a bit stronger shields.

Python is just fine as it is. The FDL is an interceptor, the python is a tank (combat) or armored truck (trade).
 

Darrett

Darrett
Khazid said:
So, since python is described as a well armed trader - gunboat, I guess it means it is designed to trade without getting killed. There is no other trader ship that can fit that description, you pay premium for a well protected ship, that can trade, but cannot kill anything due to speed limitation.

Yes your combat designed FDL cannot kill it (1v1) and if you stay around python weapon range you probably die first, but you can always leave, python will never catch you... Python can just sit and wait for FDL or any other combat ship to come at it. It is designed to withstand pirate attempts mostly. It's not broken, or needs a nerf. It costs more than the FDL and other ships for a reason. Is it so unreasonable that someone designed a ship to withstand guns and trade at the same time? What is most needed is a shipthat is designed to fight, costs 65 mil base price and can kill the python. But then people will complain they cannot kill the fortress called anaconda.

Sometimes I think people just hate that they cannot kill a python without a wing. It cannot kill you, you cannot kill it, it does not hurt your game experience as it is the ship that can trade in relative safety, and that is why it was designed.
Then again perhaps people buy an FDL they so wanted, realise how hard it is to pilot effectively and get owned by pythons, which makes them post without giving it time.

I never thought I d see a T7 - python related nerf post though... too different ships to compare and a lot of credits between them. But T7 could do with a few more cargo holds... why would anyone pick it when coming from the Asp? Just clipp away.

PS I 've only flown python, FDL and Asp from all the discussed ships.
Click to expand...

FDL and Python cost essentially the same. A combat designed FDL should be extremely worrisome to a Python set up for trading. It's a combat ship, set up for combat.

Your Python provides protection from many ships, but a ship of the same tier set up to excel in combat should tear a Python in half.
 

possessed

possessed
FlyByNight said:
I understand that the title of the thread is somewhat provocative, but I am mainly querying the Pythons cargo capacity and medium landing pad capabilty.


I am currently looking to increase my trading rating and want to upgrade from my T6. I was trying different ships/configurations on edshipyard and was suprised by some of the statistics for the Python when compared to the Type 7.


I set up the two ships with all internal compartments assigned to cargo except the one used for shields (I put a size 5 shield on the Python rather than the default size 6 as it should still do the job).


Python - http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=705,5TP5TP5TP5Rr5Rr,31B69Y7_6QB69Y8I,0AA0AA0AA7Sk08c07205U05U03w
Type 7 - http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70X,5QR5QR5QR5QR,316Q7_7_6Q4s4s8I,0AA0AA08c08c0727RA03w03w




Statistics of note


Hull Mass
Python - 350 T
Type 7 - 420 T


Cargo Capacity
Python - 260 T
Type 7 - 216 T


Tons of cargo carried per ton of Hull Mass
Python - 0.74 T
Type 7 - 0.51 T


Overall Ship Mass with all A-rated modules, full cargo and fuel
Python - 977 T
Type 7 - 814 T


Landing pad size
Python - Medium
Type 7 - Large




Now. Considering that the Type 7 is specifically designed to carry cargo, it's suprising to find that the Python which is an all rounder, and also supposed to be smaller can carry significantly more. Furthermore, the Python is able to land on Medium size landing pads which allows it to land on Outposts whereas the Type 7 cannot because of its larger size. This does seem especially strange when you look at the shape of the two ships with The Python being streamlined (longer), and the Type 7 probably the bulkiest ship in the game. The Python is also much heavier than the Type 7 when it is fully loaded.


By the way despite the provocative title I am not seriously suggesting that this inbalance be corrected, I just thought that the statistics for these two ships were of interest and worth throwing out to the forum.


In fact having analysed the data, I conclude that for my next trader if my budget will stretch, I should go for an entry level Python with Cargo Hold Upgrade (58M Cr) which is still likely to outperform an A-rated Type 7(48M Cr).
Click to expand...

It is time for you to leave the game and forum go outside take break from life and ruin something other things on this planet...
 
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h347h

h347h
Khazid said:
So, since python is described as a well armed trader - gunboat, I guess it means it is designed to trade without getting killed. There is no other trader ship that can fit that description, you pay premium for a well protected ship, that can trade, but cannot kill anything due to speed limitation.
Click to expand...

The Anaconda would like to say hi and let you know it can do it better than a Python.
 

Bazorlag

B
Cruis.In said:
WHo said the FDL is gimped?

http://coriolis.io/outfit/fer_de_la...0404044a5d5d532h.Iw18aQ==.Aw18aQ==?bn=PVP FDL

Highlights:

1000+ shields
19 DPS (you can change your weapon loadout to what you like)
788 Armor
292/393 speed
3 shield cell banks (12 cells)

In anyone's objective opinion, this does the role of combat fighter, or combat, better than the python. So all that talk about how the Python being a multipurpose ship, but is better in any configured roll than the specialized ships is crap.

In it's best configured fighter roll, the python has less shields than the FDL, less damage output.

I hope FD runs through all the possible configs and runs the numbers before listening to someone make statements like "the python in its combat fit, is better than the specialized FDL"

The utility mounts on the FDL alone is awesome. Perfect balance. So I stand corrected, even the pricing is fine.
Click to expand...

E-thrusters on FDL? You do know that now you have hard time getting away even from lumbering pile of steel like Python? Plus you take a hit on maneuverability.

Your boost speed is what, 353m/s. :)
 

Khazid

K
Darrett said:
FDL and Python cost essentially the same. A combat designed FDL should be extremely worrisome to a Python set up for trading. It's a combat ship, set up for combat.

Your Python provides protection from many ships, but a ship of the same tier set up to excel in combat should tear a Python in half.
Click to expand...

Well an FDL -is- extremely worrysome to a trade python. Unless you have it A rated, keep proper guns and dont mind reducing cargo space to clipper levels. Then it is a tank-trasnporter.

I think Frontier devs don't want a balanced set of ships where every ship can beat another. They seem to aim for a more real life approach where you get what you pay for. Put the same amount of credits on an FDL and a python and FDL does really cut the python in half every time. In that sense, when in the same tier (credits wise) I couldnt agree more. The thing is due to internals python price skyrockets in comparison.

Instead of buffing the FDL we need a ship to cover the gap. A fighter that has a near python or better price, but internals can make it clearly better than python. But then I m not sure it would be as fast or agile as the FDL. Not as fun either. I wouldnt mind better range though or a bigger fuel tank. It -is- a bounty hunter's ship after all! How can you hunt anything with 13 lys of range??

In the end different ships for all tastes, why do we need ship A to beat ship B every time? If you cannot do it in ship A, just buy B. If you do not like B get C or stick with A and do not try to kill B. Is it a case of "I love A and I want it to beat every one in PvP" or "I cannot afford B so A should beat it, plus it looks cooler, it must be better right?" (not addressing personal to anyone here) .

If it wasn't for the tiny range, I 'd still have the FDL around (tried it, loved it, and then I realised I was tied around a home system). I admit I had a hard time accepting how better the DB scout was from the viper, so FDL - python might be a similar case for some. Even though FDL came after python, so I guess everyone expected it to be better? (and at 100 mil... who could blame anyone?)
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
Darrett said:
Type 7- 17.5 Million
Python- 57 Million

This game is set up entirely around balance based on ship cost. Logic and ship roles aren't the concern..
Click to expand...

I see what you are saying and the python landing on a medium pad raised an eyebrow for me too at 1st.... but that being siad, it is not that illogical that expensive better designed hardware is more efficient, be it power to mass ratio or space due to better designers and superior materials. The T7 is a cheap ship for what it can carry.
 

Katie Byrne

Katie Byrne
Cruis.In said:
WHo said the FDL is gimped?

http://coriolis.io/outfit/fer_de_la...0404044a5d5d532h.Iw18aQ==.Aw18aQ==?bn=PVP FDL

Highlights:

1000+ shields
19 DPS (you can change your weapon loadout to what you like)
788 Armor
292/393 speed
3 shield cell banks (12 cells)

In anyone's objective opinion, this does the role of combat fighter, or combat, better than the python. So all that talk about how the Python being a multipurpose ship, but is better in any configured roll than the specialized ships is crap.

In it's best configured fighter roll, the python has less shields than the FDL, less damage output.

I hope FD runs through all the possible configs and runs the numbers before listening to someone make statements like "the python in its combat fit, is better than the specialized FDL"

The utility mounts on the FDL alone is awesome. Perfect balance. So I stand corrected, even the pricing is fine.
Click to expand...

haha look at that power usage. never gonna happen man.

I've spent plenty of time outfitting an FDL and there is no way you can even get CLOSE to that loadout.

EDIT - this is the best you'll get along those lines:

http://coriolis.io/outfit/fer_de_la...2o2h.Iw1-gDJJA===.MwBhrECYZz4IwNEA?bn=PVP FDL
 
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