Is the Stellar Forge and ED becoming Outdated?

[Rat Catcher]

Are you talking about NMS? That's not exactly what I would call next-gen graphics. Or is Star Citizen getting VR support?

I thought we were all talking about Elite

Are you drunk? You're the one who brought up "other big studios"...

No I'm not drunk, and mind your manners.

My "other studios" comment had nothing to do with NMS or SC.

We won't mention Valve, as Old duck doesn't play scary games so Half-Life: Alyx hasn't made it to the table, not apparently Lone Echo (probably not even Robo Recall or Arizona Sunshine)

HG has made everyone own virtual PSVR regardless of the power of their system, not a good comparison, and certainly not implied by @CaptainPugwash ...

Open your mind and look at what is already here and is yet to come, @Old Duck , before making blanket statements, it would be sensible to do so...

 

[Rat Catcher]

We need fidelity, man!

Of course you do, and you don't mind the wait for each frame to render either, brilliant idea
ETA: (generic you, not actual one!) - sometimes I hate the nuance limitations of my Mother Tongue

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

For me, next gen graphics over vr absolutely. It would be okay if you never played or were exposed to other games apart from elite.. but if you notice a gap its just not the same anymore. Its easily visible in elite even.. go look at the orca or cutter cockpits vs the krait. Its like they're from different games... even though technically the difference isn't that great.

The difference between the Cutter and the Krait does not depend on the time they were released though.
The Sidewinder cockpit is absolutely the best cockpit throughout all ED ships. It's full of details like the flight manual, a gun (?) or a tool, the First Aid kit, a cup holder (for the Hutton Mug maybe?). The sidewinder cockpit is a big hint at space legs.
With the Cutter I think they just failed to create a proper minimalist design that is typical of the Empire design style.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

The difference between the Cutter and the Krait does not depend on the time they were released though.
The Sidewinder cockpit is absolutely the best cockpit throughout all ED ships. It's full of details like the flight manual, a gun (?) or a tool, the First Aid kit, a cup holder (for the Hutton Mug maybe?). The sidewinder cockpit is a big hint at space legs.
With the Cutter I think they just failed to create a proper minimalist design that is typical of the Empire design style.

I agree about the Cutter, but the Krait and certainly the mamba, seem to be rendered much better and have more detail.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

I agree about the Cutter, but the Krait and certainly the mamba, seem to be rendered much better and have more detail.

I don't know the mamba, but I do know well both Kraits. That should be definitely the standard level for all ships (still the Sidewinder is one step above though )

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

The difference between the Cutter and the Krait does not depend on the time they were released though.
The Sidewinder cockpit is absolutely the best cockpit throughout all ED ships. It's full of details like the flight manual, a gun (?) or a tool, the First Aid kit, a cup holder (for the Hutton Mug maybe?). The sidewinder cockpit is a big hint at space legs.
With the Cutter I think they just failed to create a proper minimalist design that is typical of the Empire design style.

Good point about the sidewinder (and viper etc). For the orca and cutter, i think its a level of detail that just crosses the line into... ps3 graphics. You can ignore it if you're not looking for it.. but if you do...

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Good point about the sidewinder (and viper etc). For the orca and cutter, i think its a level of detail that just crosses the line into... ps3 graphics. You can ignore it if you're not looking for it.. but if you do...

Oh yes I forgot about the Orca. That's the reason I don't fly that ship. I tried once... left the starport, U reverse, docked and sold it

 

[Rat Catcher]

I agree about the Cutter, but the Krait and certainly the mamba, seem to be rendered much better and have more detail.

Even the T-10 isn't too shabby... (particularly all of the above in VR)

 

[Vandaahl]

it is not an engine limitation as you can see looking at Planet Zoo scenes from the same engine. It is a low poli low tex simply because they try to reduce resource cost since that scene it is not usually seen during game play.

Could you please stop using logic? I'm running out of likes thank you very much

Jokes aside, it amazing this needs to be explained. About every game uses this for pretty obvious reasons...

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Even the T-10 isn't too shabby... (particularly all of the above in VR)

It's not bad. The problem I have with Lakon ships is that they have the exact same console throughout all their models.
The T9 is another big call for space legs anyway. I find creepy to see all those corridors behind me without the possibility to check what's behind and if someone's hiding there and the AspX tease me a lot not being able to check what's behind the cockpit door.

 

[[PS4 Pro - PC] earthtone99]

It's not bad. The problem I have with Lakon ships is that they have the exact same console throughout all their models.
The T9 is another big call for space legs anyway. I find creepy to see all those corridors behind me without the possibility to check what's behind and if someone's hiding there and the AspX tease me a lot not being able to check what's behind the cockpit door.

Slight Alien Isolation spoiler ahead...





I always think of Alien Isolation and the bit in the Torrens at the end... just imagine that behind you...

 

[Ganogati]

He has a point though. Elite is basically made for VR, cutting that would be a shot in the feet with a huge plasma accelerator.
Haven't found a game yet which works so well in VR.

Also, considering that if you go to youtube and search "Elite Dangerous", the highest viewcount video by far is specifically about ED's VR. I couldn't imagine having a game where it's most touted feature got pulled lol.

So yea, I'm not worried about VR going anywhere.

 

[Ganogati]

In reference to the OP: This game isn't a spring chicken; it's what... 6 years since release, and been in production longer still? Of course things coming out today are going to look better than it. But as much as I would love to see those kinds of graphics and green planet generation like UE has, unless someone actually puts that into a game that does anything remotely like what ED does (VR space sim with a gigantic open world galaxy), then those graphics don't really do me a ton of good as just an unrealized tech demo or as the gameplay of some random FPS or RPG.

Even if the Stellar Forge is outdated, which no doubt it's going to get there if it isn't already, it's the only thing I know of that does what it does, so it's kind of a moot point. The best I can do is hope that maybe FDev can take a few notes from what UE is doing and apply it to their game.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Also, considering that if you go to youtube and search "Elite Dangerous", the highest viewcount video by far is specifically about ED's VR. I couldn't imagine having a game where it's most touted feature got pulled lol.

So yea, I'm not worried about VR going anywhere.

I'm fairly sure that one doesn't exclude the other anyway: you can keep good 2D graphics and VR with lower res settings.

 

[Ganogati]

I'm fairly sure that one doesn't exclude the other anyway: you can keep good 2D graphics and VR with lower res settings.

You can. The "rumors" of FDev dropping VR support never really stemmed from graphics; you can up the maximum end of the graphics in a game as much as you want without messing up its ability to support VR as long as you leave the VR level graphics in there. Folks mostly been creating their own "rumors" of VR getting dumped because of possibly incompatible (or challenging, at least) possible gameplay features coming in New Era. Oh, and a single outdated comment from an interview from either 2016 or 2018, both being from before the release of game changers like the Rift S, Quest, HP Reverb or HL: Alyx

 

[Lightspeed]

More than 5 years have passed since ED was released. ED looked cutting-edge in 2015. Now, it has inferior level of detail (less polygons for ships, objects, lower resolution textures, no ray-tracing or volumetric clouds). Old games like Minecraft and World of Warcraft support RTX ray-tracing, unfortunately not ED. Competitors such as the Unreal Engine add planet generation with wildlife and transition from the surface to space. It's not as ambitious as simulating the whole galaxy. However, the surface level of detail and life is far ahead of ED's lifeless worlds. The Stellar Forge simulates the galaxy via the Background Simulation, but it's barely visible for players in star systems.

A last-gen looking game won't attract a lot of new players. Next-gen games on the PlayStation 5 etc will graphically blow ED out of the water. So Frontier should keep on upgrading ED like CCP does with Eve Online. Is it too late for the Stellar Forge (Cobra Engine) or can Frontier improve it sufficiently?

People have high hopes for the Next Era expansion. Frontier could make many people happy with a free graphics update. Based on the underwhelming Fleet Carriers, I don't have much faith anymore.

Back to OP's original point, I think there's a real risk that ED will lose me and hundreds like me if I have to splash out on new graphics too soon. I bought a gaming laptop for Elite Dangerous and it's still going strong, but an upgrade to the graphics will leave me well behind, I suspect.

 

[Cosmo]

unreal engine didn't introduce planet scale environment.
What you see in that video is misleading.
I post one replay to that video from tow Unreal Engine users:
"it’s the spherical shader the mentioned in the beginning. It’s applied to the landscape material and it warps the vertices the higher you go. It’s purely visual so collision and physics still happen on a plane but the planet underneath you wraps into a sphere"
"Yeah but there's also the downside that only the renderer treats the terrain as a sphere. Raycasts and collisions are still using the flat landscape, which is actually larger than what is looks like when you are high up. All actors that are on the landscape and need to be seen from space also have to be using the same vertex shader, otherwise they'll remain floating in space where their actual locations are. Games like No Man's Sky convert the terrain to an actual sphere when leaving the planets so this shader trick is only useful when you are relatively close to the planet."
"Yes Dr Steak is entirely correct. Within an actual gameplay/production scenario what I did would only work if (just like I did) the actual playable area is restricted to the top center of the planet only. It would not be possible to build gameplay content anywhere on the surface of the planet without large scale engine changes. What you see here avoids that, so there is no plugin used or anything special. It are all just material tricks in combination with the awesome new atmosphere rendering. "

So the Unreal Engine 4 uses some tricks to create a planet sphere while having major technical bottlenecks. Thanks for the clarification.

Oh look, the ground scenery, which in a space ship flying game is solely for 'atmosphere' is low poly count! Disaster!

While I agree, in a perfect world, everything visible would be composed of 100's of 1,000's of polygons for accurate rendition all of the time. I can't think of one game that does this though, but would welcome being corrected.

Yeah when it's out of focus it could be low quality, but when the camera is nearby such as in this picture it should be more detailed. There's not one single place in Star Citizen that has such 15 year old blocky flora.

It's not a high priority since we can't walk in stations yet, but it's below industry standards for a 5 year old game.

I have to admit its not absolute though. The truck simulators are a few generations behind in graphical caliber yet are still going strong.. for the same reason as elite the driving mechanics. If frontier gave up im sure people would still stay around anchored to the core experience. The only thing is frontier for so many years now are courting the exact opposite demographic, mainstream arcade action players, so if they still want to do this hopefully they keep going and dutifully update the graphics.

It's essential to attract a larger, more main-stream audience to sustain ED for the next 5 years. The current player base is too niche and has been nearly depleted so to speak. The Next Era must be a commercial success or we might not get more expansions afterward.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Yeah when it's out of focus it could be low quality, but when the camera is nearby such as in this picture it should be more detailed.

There's not one single place in Star Citizen that has such 15 year old blocky flora.

There are less places in Star Citisnt. However you can go to these places and even have a look on the tiled textures from below. That isn't a very popular feature though. Minecraft has blocky flora too, btw. Didn't hurt the game.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Oh well I don't have a lot of hobbies, it's just mainly this. So I wouldn't mind (I would actually but I could justify it) if I have to buy a new rig.
But not for legs only of course. I would pick my money up if it's about atmospheric planets and Legs properly done and in VR.

 

[Kloppage Time]

Says the dude with a store button protest avatar.

Says the dude with a Chris Morris 'The Day Today' avatar.

EDIT: Hmmm...actually that's pretty cool; that^ example of cutting sarcasm backfired somewhat!

Btw, I had you pegged more as a fan of the Chuckle Brothers' genre of humour; now, that's a much more effective example!

Guess the same is valid for a double affirmation?
As in: yeah, right!

Wow - 'way to ruin a clever joke!