It's time to revisit the PVP rebuy. Distant Ganks 2 makes the point.

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Just goes to prove that age old saying: you can lead an explorer to water, but you can't make him drink.

In this case "water" is substituted by "PvP" - and players were encouraged to play in a PvE Private Group - only those who choose to participate in DW2 in Open are available to those seeking to destroy them.
 
Those guys really deserve more of the community's respect than they're getting.


Those guys do have everyone's respect I would imagine.

Kinda by default.

I would hazard a guess that the majority of explorers in DW2 are just like myself, in that *everybody* gets my respect as a basic default. They then retain my respect, right up until the moment that they do or say something that means they no longer deserve my respect.

The guys you mention still have my basic default respect for them as people. Perhaps they have even built up extra respect. The thing is, though, that this doesn't need to be written down.

The fact that we haven't written it down, doesn't mean we don't respect them. Kinda like you imply that we should. Which seems weird to me.

Likewise, I see no reason to write down which personalities have behaved in such a way as to lose my respect. There are, however, a few. But I wouldn't put that in writing either.

Slàinte Mhath

Mark H
 
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In this case "water" is substituted by "PvP" - and players were encouraged to play in a PvE Private Group - only those who choose to participate in DW2 in Open are available to those seeking to destroy them.

No, not exactly; plenty of people could not get into Fleetcomm, so there wasn't a lot of choice in the matter. They're simply trying to be part of the expedition and actually see other players. Though I do think it's pretty funny how quick you chosen ones in Fleetcomm are to throw your fellow explorers under the bus. Anything goes when you're trying to protect the sanctity of group, eh?
 
Those guys do have everyone's respect I would imagine.

Kinda by default.

I would hazard a guess that the majority of explorers in DW2 are just like myself, in that *everybody* gets my respect as a basic default. They then retain my respect, right up until the moment that they do or say something that means they no longer deserve my respect.

The guys you mention still have my basic default respect for them as people. Perhaps they have even built up extra respect. The thing is, though, that this doesn't need to be written down.

The fact that we haven't written it down, doesn't mean we don't respect them. Kinda like you imply that we should. Which seems weird to me.

Likewise, I see no reason to write down which personalities have behaved in such a way as to lose my respect. There are, however, a few. But I wouldn't put that in writing either.

Slàinte Mhath

Mark H

The key word was "more."
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
No, not exactly; plenty of people could not get into Fleetcomm, so there wasn't a lot of choice in the matter. They're simply trying to be part of the expedition and actually see other players. Though I do think it's pretty funny how quick you chosen ones in Fleetcomm are to throw your fellow explorers under the bus. Anything goes when you're trying to protect the sanctity of group, eh?

I'm not a member of FleetComm - so your disdain is misdirected.

Any player can create a Private Group or play in Solo - it is not as if anyone *had* to play in Open because FleetComm was unavailable to them.
 
No, not exactly; plenty of people could not get into Fleetcomm, so there wasn't a lot of choice in the matter. They're simply trying to be part of the expedition and actually see other players. Though I do think it's pretty funny how quick you chosen ones in Fleetcomm are to throw your fellow explorers under the bus. Anything goes when you're trying to protect the sanctity of group, eh?

Lol now you're just making things up.
 
It's an event organised for and by explorers - that others chose to tag along is up to them, however the event was not designed for them.

Feel free to organise an event - and see who turns up.

i think you are missing the point here Robert.

To avoid the enourmous amount of sodium infux, they could have looked to various sects of the community to help them in thier endeavour. It might be for explorers, but in no way shape or form was there sufficient outsourcing from the rest of the community to help it run smoothly.

People being kicked from, or otherwise refused access to the fleetcomm PG alone goes a long way to show this.


The root problem with the division in this game is that people refuse to see things from any other point of veiw other than thier own. Fdev's design goes further to limit this with the inclusion of modes, effectively, right from the off, creating the boundaries that now define these sects. (I'm not getting into that discussion, it is just a valid point relative to this conversation).
In the long term, it has reared its head in every kind of player run event (and a few notable others). People are unwilling to cooperate. They are unwilling to all try to work together for any greater goal unless it sits firmly within thier sphere of comfort. (Not judging, thats just how humans are)
FDev set the precident at the very beginning. It's not really a great surprise to see it persist this long into the games lifecycle.

People being split into these very segmented systems, like the moded system and clear cut dividers between careers with the only overlap being engineering, just breeds constant dislike for the other sects of the playerbase because at absolutley zero point are any of these players made to interact with each other. Thus resulting in people thinking thier way is the only way and anyone who does'nt agree and play like that is playing the game wrong. (See Yamiks for further mocking of this very simple fact)

The end result is a playerbase who is totally focused on one thing and gives not one care to anything else anyone does because as far as they are concerned, those people have thier own segement and should stick to it. Modes are not likely to change, nor is the way the careers are designed. But what can change is how people decide to interact with one another.
Events like DW should be pulling intrest from every area of the community, because an event of that scope pretty much requires input from as many folks as can be mustered to be truly successful. Not only would more events that include more of the playerbase be more likely to garner favour between groups in game, but people might actually, if by some bloody miracle, actually start to make folk respect the way others want to play the game.
 
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Just goes to prove that age old saying: you can lead an explorer to water, but you can't make him drink.
Nice analogy. The water is combat. We prefer to be led to a bar. Then we'll drink the glorious beer of exploration.

As DWE2 shows, those fellers are getting completely sloshed and have no intention of calling it a night any time soon. :)
 
Nice analogy. The water is combat. We prefer to be led to a bar. Then we'll drink the glorious beer of exploration.

As DWE2 shows, those fellers are getting completely sloshed and have no intention of calling it a night any time soon. :)

All the best parties have gatecrashers wanting to get in ;)

I'm out exploring. I have no interest in being led to anything already known, I am looking for new stuff.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
i think you are missing the point here Robert.

To avoid the enourmous amount of sodium infux, they could have looked to various sects of the community to help them in thier endeavour. It might be for explorers, but in no way shape or form was there sufficient outsourcing from the rest of the community to help it run smoothly.

People being kicked from, or otherwise refused access to the fleetcomm PG alone goes a long way to show this.

No-one *needed* to participate in Open - every player has access to Solo (and, when not in the same system as another player, is there any perceptible difference anyway?) and can create a Private Group to invite other players to play in (subject to being able to play in multi-player at all).

DG2 would not have existed if DW2 hadn't been organised. That an exploration based event was organised without apparent input from those participating in DG2 is not unsurprising - when the two play-styles are naturally opposed.

The root problem with the division in this game is that people refuse to see things from any other point of veiw other than thier own. Fdev's design goes further to limit this with the inclusion of modes, effectively, right from the off, creating the boundaries that now define these sects. (I'm not getting into that discussion, it is just a valid point relative to this conversation).
In the long term, it has reared its head in every kind of player run event (and a few notable others). People are unwilling to cooperate. They are unwilling to all try to work together for any greater goal unless it sits firmly within thier sphere of comfort. (Not judging, thats just how humans are)
FDev set the precident at the very beginning. It's not really a great surprise to see it persist this long into the games lifecycle.

People being split into these very segmented systems, like the moded system and clear cut dividers between careers with the only overlap being engineering, just breeds constant dislike for the other sects of the playerbase because at absolutley zero point are any of these players made to interact with each other. Thus resulting in people thinking thier way is the only way and anyone who does'nt agree and play like that is playing the game wrong. (See Yamiks for further mocking of this very simple fact)

The end result is a playerbase who is totally focused on one thing and gives not one care to anything else anyone does because as far as they are concerned, those people have thier own segement and should stick to it. Modes are not likely to change, nor is the way the careers are designed. But what can change is how people decide to interact with one another.
Events like DW should be pulling intrest from every area of the community, because an event of that scope pretty much requires input from as many folks as can be mustered to be truly successful. Not only would more events that include more of the playerbase be more likely to garner favour between groups in game, but people might actually, if by some bloody miracle, actually start to respect the way others want to play the game.

It's somewhat ironic that the suggestion is that players (who may not actually enjoy playing *with* other players, much less enjoy PvP) should "actually start to respect the way others want to play the game" when some of those other players don't appear to respect the way that the players they seek respect from wish to play the game. Put a different way, players whose gameplay may include destroying other players chose an optional play-style that is at odds with those players who choose not to engage in PvP.

Whether there is a "greater goal" to be had is a matter of opinion.

When some players choose to draw attention to themselves (and their play-style) due to their actions in and around an event organised by others, to the extent that they publish statistics relating to their endeavours, it is likely to worsen an already fractious situation rather than improve it.
 
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Nice analogy. The water is combat. We prefer to be led to a bar. Then we'll drink the glorious beer of exploration.

As DWE2 shows, those fellers are getting completely sloshed and have no intention of calling it a night any time soon. :)

Nice rebuttal, but in my example (and indeed, in every example that a PvPer has EVER given to an explorer in the history of this forum) the "water" isn't combat.
 
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No-one *needed* to participate in Open - every player has access to Solo (and, when not in the same system as another player, is there any perceptible difference anyway?) and can create a Private Group to invite other players to play in (subject to being able to play in multi-player at all).

DG2 would not have existed if DW2 hadn't been organised. That an exploration based event was organised without apparent input from those participating in DG2 is not unsurprising - when the two play-styles are naturally opposed.



It's somewhat ironic that the suggestion is that players (who may not actually enjoy playing *with* other players, much less enjoy PvP) should "actually start to respect the way others want to play the game" when some of those other players don't appear to respect the way that the players they seek respect from wish to play the game. Put a different way, players whose gameplay may include destroying other players chose an optional play-style that is at odds with those players who choose not to engage in PvP.

Whether there is a "greater goal" to be had is a matter of opinion.

When some players choose to draw attention to themselves (and their play-style) due to their actions in and around an event organised by others, to the extent that they publish statistics relating to their endeavours, it is likely to worsen an already fractious situation rather than improve it.

Once again the point has been missed. Or maybe you don't want to see it.

Thats fine, I'll not be wating my breath. I just think your response goes a long way to prove me right. And from a moderator no less.

I'm not shocked. Just a little surprised.
 
So when are SDC & friends organising this new 'inclusive event'? Whats it going to be?

How many do you think will attend?

Huh I'm flattered.

I think myself as a half cop pilot, but I doubt very much I'd qualify for thier ranks.

Thanks for the thought though :D

I might just do one. To be fair I have enough time and improving the organisational skills would'nt ever go amiss.
Maybe once there is a performance patch that actually allows me to play the game I'll consider it.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Once again the point has been missed. Or maybe you don't want to see it.

Thats fine, I'll not be wating my breath. I just think your response goes a long way to prove me right. And from a moderator no less.

I'm not shocked. Just a little surprised.

If the point is that players should all play together, whether they find it to be "fun" or not, then it was noted - however it's not an opinion I share. I play games for "fun", more specifically my fun. I don't find it "fun" to be engaged in gameplay where the other player(s) hog all of the fun for themselves. Frontier would seem to have seen this coming when they designed the game and gave players options. That some players can't accept that players don't need to play with them then the game design does not support their preference.

That I am a Moderator is irrelevant - I'm a player of the game, just like other players. I don't participate in threads that I moderate.
 
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It's builds and methods to survive combat?

Yes. And those builds and methods do not involve shooting. Not for an explorer, or a laden trader. An expansion of the philosophy, though, is that a few more armed escorts ala Ziljan could do wonders. Over on the DWE sub the fleetcomm admins absolutely shout down any suggestion that armed escorts can be effective, but of course this is just nonsense propagated by players with no experience in even PvE combat.
 
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