Jumping to sister stars

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Sounds like the 'Suggestions' forum is the wrong place for you if you're opposed to so many suggestions for enhancing gameplay.
Whether the suggestion in question enhances (or diminishes gameplay related decisions) remains a matter of opinion.

.... and expressing opposition to suggestions is not unreasonable in that context.
 
... because hyper jumps arrive at the most massive body in the system, I expect.

How would a smaller body be jumped to in that context?
It is even simpler than that really, it seems to be the central star of the given solar system which may or may not have the highest gravitational field (or be the most massive) in all cases... though depending on how the mathematical model for determining system composition pans out, it may mean that in most cases the central star is normally the most massive.

Solar systems orbit around the galactic core and objects within a given solar system generally orbit around the most massive object in the given system thus in galactic positioning terms the only relatively speaking fixed point in a given solar system will be the focal point for said system's galactic orbit - which will normally be the most massive object in the given solar system. In the case of close-coupled binary/trinary/etc star solar system, there may be singularly more massive objects in said system than each of the primary stars.

Given this, a jump beacon would notionally be required to jump to a non-primary/non-central body in any given solar system since it could relay galactic core relative positional deviations in real time.
 
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You see... Hardcore Elite player need to sometime do the laundry, wash the dishes or go for a walk with the dog.

Hutton NEED to be 90 mins away. So when they come back they can have the satisfaction of engaging the autodock.

And dont you dare say they should start paying the electricity bill so they can actually appreciate how much it cost to let the Elite screensaver run on their 600W+ PC for hours. You are not their real mom.
 
I would like it if we could jump from stars in the same system instead of an extremely long supercruise. Think of places like Alpha Centauri, it takes about 45min to an hour to get to Proxima. Does anyone else agree?

No. Ling SC trips are perfect Zen.
 
Frankly i don't mind having to fly upwards of an hour to get to far away places in a large system. The risk of space madness increases with every passing lightsecond (i know i know, unit of distance, not time shut up).

Almost blew a passenger out the airlock because i swear i heard him plotting to take over my ship. I mean there's only so much difference between "Don't puke on me" and "lets plot a mutiny"

Then again, i enjoy the game regardless of what the devs decide to do. Because i paid money to have fun, pretend i'm Malcom Reynolds for a few hours a day and make some space cash. not argue as to why x, y and z features should be put into a game


No. Ling SC trips are perfect Zen.
heck yeah. 20 minutes of meditating going 1200x the speed of light is definitely relaxing af
 
I notice something.
Are you saying that as a moderator, or as a discussion participant? His comment to @dxm55 below feels somewhat personal and unreasonable in the context of the 'Suggestions' forum:
Here what bad nanite2000. I edit my Signature a few days ago. "Role Player, Space Trucker and Explorer. So when I explore in Elite Dangerous I have a story in my mind." It seems after I posted that and my first few posts. My first post I pointed out I was a Role player after that is It seems dxm55 was posting stuff like
Do what you want. Pretend, play make-believe, role-play, imagine all you want.
It's up to you.

I'm just saying things from my perspective. I treat this as a game. Sim or otherwise.
I could report it. But frankly I rather have people see the true dxm55 attitude on what he really think about Role playing.

I will stop going off subject. I still think people would stop playing Elite Dangerous if Distance was not a factor.
 
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to quote a very handy guide:

Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space
- Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

It's called space for a reason...theres a lot of it. The Milky Way is 100k light years across. What would it be called if you could get across that in 10-15 minutes? Besides "impossible" and "stressful on the human body"
 
to quote a very handy guide:

- Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

It's called space for a reason...theres a lot of it. The Milky Way is 100k light years across. What would it be called if you could get across that in 10-15 minutes? Besides "impossible" and "stressful on the human body"
To be fair, employing non-Newtonian FTL travel techniques does muddy the waters somewhat BUT how super-cruise feels in ED you may have a point since there are obviously stress factors involved (ergo the blue throttle zone and the overall effect of super cruise on ship integrity).

As for the actual topic of this thread - jumping to non-central stars in a given solar system - if the concept of a jump beacon was used then the end effect would not be entirely unreasonable BUT whether it should be doable as an intra-system jump is questionable in terms of legitimacy. That being said, I see no good reason to oppose the concept of being able to high-wake to the system you are currently in whether it is only to the primary system entry point OR to a non-primary entry point specifically serviced by a jump beacon.

I still think people would stop playing Elite Dangerous if Distance was not a factor.
I believe we are in agreement here - however with one caveat, you might find it less appealing to the true grass roots space sim people and more appealing to the instant gratification crowd.
 
I believe we are in agreement here - however with one caveat, you might find it less appealing to the true grass roots space sim people and more appealing to the instant gratification crowd.
For ‘instant gratification crowd’ I assume you are also including people with families/jobs/busy lives who don’t have as much free time as you and who would like to spend their time in-game doing more than just sitting and waiting.

Is that the instant gratification crowd you mean?
 
To be fair, employing non-Newtonian FTL travel techniques does muddy the waters somewhat BUT how super-cruise feels in ED you may have a point since there are obviously stress factors involved (ergo the blue throttle zone and the overall effect of super cruise on ship integrity).

As for the actual topic of this thread - jumping to non-central stars in a given solar system - if the concept of a jump beacon was used then the end effect would not be entirely unreasonable BUT whether it should be doable as an intra-system jump is questionable in terms of legitimacy. That being said, I see no good reason to oppose the concept of being able to high-wake to the system you are currently in whether it is only to the primary system entry point OR to a non-primary entry point specifically serviced by a jump beacon.


I believe we are in agreement here - however with one caveat, you might find it less appealing to the true grass roots space sim people and more appealing to the instant gratification crowd.

I'm editing this because i'm a 'tard and can't read. We can Lore until the space cows come home devising how FSD technology defies most known laws of physics or simply write it off as a "just a video game."

If a system wants to be implemented as an optional internal to allow for shorter jump times in large systems (36 Ophiuchi for example) when target stations are .14 light years away (Eat your heart out Hutton Orbital) then i don't have a problem with that. if someone wants to sit there for an hour and a half getting from point A to point B, let em! If someone has a life or just wants to grind as fast as possible (the instant gratification crowd), then they have the option of purchasing a piece of equipment that allows for quick in-system travel. Less Fuss Less Muss

Jumped into the system 25 minutes ago and i've only gone .04 light years away from the jump point. I'm either way on a fancy jump system that super charges a FSD past 2000c
 
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For ‘instant gratification crowd’ I assume you are also including people with families/jobs/busy lives who don’t have as much free time as you and who would like to spend their time in-game doing more than just sitting and waiting.

Is that the instant gratification crowd you mean?
I think you are ignoring the fact that at least some of the people you are referring to (which may or may not have more time to spend in ED as me) oppose the general idea that SC times should be reduced. :rolleyes:
 
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i mean...it's kinda Newtownian if you turn off Flight Assist.
Not in the context of super cruise or FSD jumps, nominal space flight is at least pseudo-Newtonian like most space games.

We can Lore until the space cows come home devising how FSD technology defies most known laws of physics or simply write it off as a "just a video game."
Ultimately, the FSD tech does not defy any of the laws of physics - it is just touching on areas of physics that are on the most part "still" theoretical due to limitations in our current technical capabilities.

If a system wants to be implemented as an optional internal to allow for shorter jump times in large systems (36 Ophiuchi for example) when target stations are .14 light years away (Eat your heart out Hutton Orbital) then i don't have a problem with that. if someone wants to sit there for an hour and a half getting from point A to point B, let em! If someone has a life or just wants to grind as fast as possible (the instant gratification crowd), then they have the option of purchasing a piece of equipment that allows for quick in-system travel. Less Fuss Less Muss
If the non-primary star/body jumps are supported by the concept of a jump beacon in orbit of said body then I would have little problem with the overall concept BUT I still disagree it should be done.

Jumped into the system 25 minutes ago and i've only gone .04 light years away from the jump point. I'm either way on a fancy jump system that super charges a FSD past 2000c
I am however diametrically opposed to changing the SC mechanics as some would like them to be. Engineering should ONLY affect the throttle blue zone extent/positioning, an additional "optional" module that would perhaps reduce the mass effect of bodies while in SC would be passable. However, again I do disagree that anything should be done to alter SC mechanics.
 

dxm55

Banned
For ‘instant gratification crowd’ I assume you are also including people with families/jobs/busy lives who don’t have as much free time as you and who would like to spend their time in-game doing more than just sitting and waiting.

Is that the instant gratification crowd you mean?

Some of these people who like grind may actually also be working adults.
I mean, true enough, retirees, pensioners, and occupants of nursing homes have lotsa free time on their hands and could play all day.

But I do understand that there exists some people who like playing slow games, or playing their games slow.



I could report it. But frankly I rather have people see the true dxm55 attitude on what he really think about Role playing.

Oh... kaay. So how do you want me to react here? :ROFLMAO:
 
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total time was about 1hr 10 min and that wasn't messing with the throttle at all/maxed out.

That said, having it as an engineering pipeline again just gives players the option to working toward something that will make their lives easier. If someone wants to hop, skip and jump 15ly at a time all the way to colonia, good, freaking luck. Pros and cons to it all. Either way you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Hence why i'm suggesting having it has a mechanic that more or less gives players the option to fly in systems a bit quicker.

While i was staring into emptiness, i had a thought: instead of altering the ships in a given capacity (equipment, engineering etc), why not add a second jump point to systems with destinations that lie further than x Ls away from the "primary" jump point? Something that would have to be targeted manually, otherwise you're flying the long way. There would have to be something that prevents players from jumping out and jumping back in 250,000 Ls away. God Forbid a BGS tick gives a sweet single-system trade route in system that yields 600x profit per drop.
 

dxm55

Banned
total time was about 1hr 10 min and that wasn't messing with the throttle at all/maxed out.

That said, having it as an engineering pipeline again just gives players the option to working toward something that will make their lives easier. If someone wants to hop, skip and jump 15ly at a time all the way to colonia, good, freaking luck. Pros and cons to it all. Either way you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Hence why i'm suggesting having it has a mechanic that more or less gives players the option to fly in systems a bit quicker.

While i was staring into emptiness, i had a thought: instead of altering the ships in a given capacity (equipment, engineering etc), why not add a second jump point to systems with destinations that lie further than x Ls away from the "primary" jump point? Something that would have to be targeted manually, otherwise you're flying the long way. There would have to be something that prevents players from jumping out and jumping back in 250,000 Ls away. God Forbid a BGS tick gives a sweet single-system trade route in system that yields 600x profit per drop.

That's why people are proposing direct jumps to the secondary stars, so we don't have to make any changes to SC at all.
Because there is really no reason to travel that 350,000Ls, 600,000Ls, 1million+ Ls or even that 0.22Ly in SC.
Especially in occupied, civilized space in the Bubble.

And if we can make direct jumps to secondary stars, we also wouldn't need to ask for stuff like intrasystem-, or micro- jumps.
It's fine if I cannot jump from the A to B star. Because if I had intended to go to the B star, I would have jumped directly to it from outside the system.

It's really not a great change to the game.

I can understand the science if you say you will not be able to differentiate and individually target each of two stars that are orbiting around each other only 10 Ls apart. Fair enough. And we also honestly don't need that. But stars that are 0.22Ly apart... you can already differentiate them IRL via parallax. So it doesn't make any scientific sense why you would not be able to target the secondary star, if you can already lock on to the primary, especially using 34th century technology.

The only restriction is artificial. Really. Some people can try to B.S. their way around mass, beacons and other voodoo pseudo science.
But let's be honest. It's just all about a bunch of pretend space-truckers wanting to keep their old boys' club alive. They need this artificial time sink to remain relevant. And FD is obviously pandering to this, and are an accessory.


OK so our resident pseudo-science pusher has already said that nav beacons are the reason why we can jump to a star in the system.
So, why not just put more beacons around secondary stars all around the bubble? Wouldn't civilized society endeavor to make all locales accessible, especially within their borders?

I can understand if beacons aren't available far out of the bubble, and that you can only lock on to the most massive star in the system. That's fine. Let the explorers have their 99.99% of the galaxy hard to travel. Let them watch paint dry. But in occupied and developed territories, local governments would have added these enhancements for spacefarers.
 
I can understand the science if you say you will not be able to differentiate and individually target each of two stars that are orbiting around each other only 10 Ls apart. Fair enough. And we also honestly don't need that. But stars that are 0.22Ly apart... you can already differentiate them IRL via parallax. So it doesn't make any scientific sense why you would not be able to target the secondary star, if you can already lock on to the primary, especially using 34th century technology.
When stars are organised as a system there is only one point in that system that will be notionally stationary relative to the galactic core and other systems, that single point is notionally the current entry point into each system.

It has nothing to do with "nav beacons" and something beyond a nav beacon - the notional "jump beacon" - would notionally be required to allow determination of the galactic core relative position of each additional entry points.

Nav beacons are normally placed near the nominal single entry point in populated/controlled systems in order to provide easy access for visitors to local navigational data for that system. It is nothing to do with why the body the nav beacon is near is actually the entry point.

The current restriction on entry points is not really artificial or illogical, it makes perfect sense if you consider the point that each system is still a single solar system in galactic terms regardless of the distance between the bodies.
 
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That's why people are proposing direct jumps to the secondary stars, so we don't have to make any changes to SC at all.
Because there is really no reason to travel that 350,000Ls, 600,000Ls, 1million+ Ls or even that 0.22Ly in SC.
Especially in occupied, civilized space in the Bubble.

And if we can make direct jumps to secondary stars, we also wouldn't need to ask for stuff like intrasystem-, or micro- jumps.
It's fine if I cannot jump from the A to B star. Because if I had intended to go to the B star, I would have jumped directly to it from outside the system.

It's really not a great change to the game.

I can understand the science if you say you will not be able to differentiate and individually target each of two stars that are orbiting around each other only 10 Ls apart. Fair enough. And we also honestly don't need that. But stars that are 0.22Ly apart... you can already differentiate them IRL via parallax. So it doesn't make any scientific sense why you would not be able to target the secondary star, if you can already lock on to the primary, especially using 34th century technology.

The only restriction is artificial. Really. Some people can try to B.S. their way around mass, beacons and other voodoo pseudo science.
But let's be honest. It's just all about a bunch of pretend space-truckers wanting to keep their old boys' club alive. They need this artificial time sink to remain relevant. And FD is obviously pandering to this, and are an accessory.


OK so our resident pseudo-science pusher has already said that nav beacons are the reason why we can jump to a star in the system.
So, why not just put more beacons around secondary stars all around the bubble? Wouldn't civilized society endeavor to make all locales accessible, especially within their borders?

I can understand if beacons aren't available far out of the bubble, and that you can only lock on to the most massive star in the system. That's fine. Let the explorers have their 99.99% of the galaxy hard to travel. Let them watch paint dry. But in occupied and developed territories, local governments would have added these enhancements for spacefarers.

I like this; and also, teams like the Fuel Rats would emerge doing just that; seeding stars with nav points. Peeps love to do the "boring" stuff (not saying that's boring, personally, but it presents a challenge I think a few would find hard to ignore)
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
OK so our resident pseudo-science pusher has already said that nav beacons are the reason why we can jump to a star in the system.
Are they though?

.... given that ships can jump to systems without a Nav Beacon (i.e. uninhabited systems)....
 
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