Yup, hence it's name - SuperCruise ASSIST
Just had a go with the new modules...
- Thread starter RevCaoticFox
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Yup, hence it's name - SuperCruise ASSIST
Agree that these assists are primary for newcomers, the devs have been clear on the matter. Completely disagree that they are not QoL features for certain cmdrs.
Have been flying these ships since Alpha, flown a ridiculous amount of trade runs both A-B-A & Missions, also been exploring since day one.
Yes supercruise is a no brainer, however the cruise part is not zero input, which is why I have always found it frustrating. SC requires constant tedious minor course corrections, especially on medium to long runs, personally I'd rather let the computer do the work, that part of SCA has allowed me to focus on other parts ED, I take over at the interesting part once I am approaching the target.
Also very happy to have the option for the computer to dock/undock every now and then whilst I scan trade routes etc. Many of us here can pretty much land these ships in our sleep.
Am out Near Omega, the Auto fuel scoop and regular Orbit is a nice touch, I feel more like I am commanding a spaceship, as opposed to a Spitfire. Would like to see see how this thing behaves orbiting VY Canis Majoris.
I've been here since before release; and I'm quite happy to continue using these mods. I like the auto-dock, I like the auto-undock, I like the supercruise assist. I spent the entire night trading around, doing data runs thoroughly enjoying myself. In fact, these mods actually contributed to my sense of immersion.
The thing with QoL changes, is that they are quite subjective. QoL changes are still QoL changes, even if they don't improve the QoL for the majority (however, without doing a poll of everybody, we'll never know if this is the case).
It won't be a QoL change for everybody. Case in point, having used it since yesterday.. I can say my experience in ED has improved, and therefore, it most definitely is a QoL change.
Who exactly are "certain cmdrs", I dont follow.
But thank you, that's all my point was, it's targeted FOR newcomers not the general player base. This whole update is an NPE update, the problem is some people have lost sight of that.
I think I've said my piece about the "not worth being modules" part, so I digress.
I checked out these modules today. loaded cruise assist in my explorer and orbited a star for an hour, if you place your ship in the right distance you won't overheat at all, ever, any more than you ever did doing it manually. I like the orbit function because I can let go of the flight controls and look at the planet or around the system in general. being able to let go while I fly to planets while exploring is very relaxing in an already relaxing function of the game. The more casual feel it gives to exploration is nice.
I put the advanced docking computer on my trade python just because I could. I had exactly 1 extra slot which wasn't useful for a cargo bay so I I figured why not. Over all I'd say the modules make several things more relaxing and for those of use who play to relax and let go it allows that in spades. I get to have all the fun of flying through the galaxy and relax while I do it. The fact that at any point with either module simply increasing throttle gives me back control makes it feel natural and fluid. I'm fully capable of flying without those modules but its nice that I don't necessarily have to.
I put the advanced docking computer on my trade python just because I could. I had exactly 1 extra slot which wasn't useful for a cargo bay so I I figured why not. Over all I'd say the modules make several things more relaxing and for those of use who play to relax and let go it allows that in spades. I get to have all the fun of flying through the galaxy and relax while I do it. The fact that at any point with either module simply increasing throttle gives me back control makes it feel natural and fluid. I'm fully capable of flying without those modules but its nice that I don't necessarily have to.
and crash you into a station/star... see the vid???
my cruise control cant steer me in a "hold pattern" at the airport
my Cutter considers it a QoL... Beluga too
The planetary/stellar orbit feature was not previously in the game, and it's pretty cool. Otherwise, the course holding feature is nice for long AFK trips.
You will find most of the top PvP combat pilots play on keyboard and mouse.
And yeah I'm salty about it, being stuck on PS4 with a Dualshock or two POS alternatives for HOTAS, all the while the console supports USB (and BT?) peripherals. And, keyboard is also supported in PS4 ED, but only for typing text and navigating menus, not for flight controls. Such a shame.
Well... indirectly it does, because it will make an already existing HP inflation problem even worse.
Exactly this. I won't sacrifice a slot for one on my combat vessels but my taxis, mining ships and materials gathering ships are definitely getting SCA.
Well I don't have a dot; I use HOTAS which is kinda drifty over time. I could turn on the dot, but it wouldn't make any difference to the drift.
I'm guessing you've never fallen asleep during a long supercruise either. A couple of times I've overshot by such a distance that it's been quicker to jump to an adjacent system and back again and start over than to turn around. SCA would have prevented that (or smashed the ship into the planet; I'll reserve full judgement until it has proven itself).
Sure, if it was any more of an edge case it would fall off, but if it's there I'm going to use it. SCA will be of much greater benefit to new players, but having it available as an optional tool for anyone who has a use for it can only be a good thing IMO.
Very few QOL improvements will work "for everyone" because of the wide number of activities on which players can focus at any given time. Too much life, not enough quality to go around. So if your criteria is that they're not QOL improvements for everyone, you're right by definition. But you claim that "people [are] trying to sell this as an overall QoL upgrade" and I'm not convinced that they are, at least not in this thread.
Bingo.
This thread has at least three.
I play this game since almost the beginning (February 2015). I think elitism discussions are pointless for the Supercruise Assist (SCA) discussion.
I think most people fed up/bored with the SCA (including myself) don't care if the game is now easier than before.
The point is that for all these years a lot of players have been asking for more engaging gameplay in Supercruise, because pointing the ship toward the destination and be there just to press the 75% thrust keybind at the right time is a terribly boring placeholder.
I've seen a lot of nice suggestions and I made some too. All with interesting pros and cons of course. All suggestions asked from people that wanted to PLAY the game rather than watching Netflix
Seeing now FDEV coming out with such a lazy "solution" (in terms of coding, not in terms of playing) is in my opinion a disrespectful joke.
When they come up with an option to make the game even more automatic for the people who don't care to stay there all the time, they should also provide more gameplay to the people that instead want to play the game all the time.
So this is not agains new players or who enjoy the SCA, but it's against the lack of FDEV effort to improve the weaknesses of the game.
That is a complete contradiction. a QoL improvement by definition is meant to improve the overall quality of experience for everyone. Now granted, what exactly those improvements should be may be subjective, but the purpose of enacting an improvement termed Quality of Life is to improve the experience for as many people as possible, ideally everyone.
The fact that Fdev has straight up said, this April update is focusing on the NPE (New Player Experience) tells me that the improvements are not general QoL upgrades, they are an overhaul to the NPE, the new flight assist modules are not meant to be QoL upgrades but training wheels with the intent that you are expected to start docking/undocking and supercruising manually eventually.
I've read a good point someone made on on the forums that after removing the "training wheels" the now free slots are essentially a reward of sorts, which I can "kind of" agree with.
Now the reason I'm even going the tote on this, is to hopefully calm down the more heated heads about the stupidity of how this whole thing was executed, not the idea of it mind you, how it was implemented. Because it's the nature of the implementation that people have a problem with, I'm talking about the module/power creep folks. In short, these modules aren't meant for you, they are meant for new players. Now, nothing is stopping you from using said modules, but the primary reason for WHY they exist was for the New Players NOT the general more experienced player base.
@Jack, I wasn't refering to just this thread specifically but the forum and the discussion in general about the nature of these improvements. Because there seems to be some confusion as to exactly who these are for and yes there are quite a few people bantering back and forth on this, not just on the forum but in discord servers and in game chat.
I'll admit at first I was pretty angry about this, but I stopped myself and thought on it a few days, and listened to both sides of the debate, and I realized that I shouldn't be angry that this isn't benefiting me because perhaps it's not meant for me, the most I'm getting is a retro active reward for "removing the training wheels" which is fine i guess.
I think to a more tangential extent (and this is guess, i may be wrong), some of the angry folks are also wanting the proposed QoL improvements that the majority has been clamoring for, like "unified limpet controllers" or limpet system overhaul, stuff like that.
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I am unable to find some special definition that applies only to software development, therefore by definition:
- https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/quality_of_life
QoL is meant to improve the comfort, and happiness of an individual or group, in the context this refers to the overall player experience (be it one player, or many).
Ideally, yes, one would want the QoL changes to be experienced by as many people as possible. Nevertheless, if only one person experiences it, it is still, by definition, a Quality of Life improvement.
If said improvements improve the experience for the individual or group, then it is a Quality of Life update. Even if it is an overhaul. Often, overhauls are meant to improve the experience not make it worse.
If you see them as training wheels. I don't. Cruise Control on my car isn't there to train me how to drive. Auto-Park isn't there to train me how to park (which is a good thing too because it's dog slow at doing it, lol). Likewise, SCA doesn't train one how to supercruise. Auto-dock, -launch doesn't train one how to dock or launch. Though one can certainly learn from it.
If nothing else, some Cmdr's will greatly benefit from these assistance modules; thereby making them, without question, Quality of Life improvements.
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Similar to the cruise control in a car; One is not to set it and forget it.
Except when one wants to hop into the back of the Winnebago for a spot of tea.
An improvement to New Players, and this is what you seem to be missing. It's been explicitly stated that this update is focusing on the NPE, the problem is there are certain folks who think it's meant for the general player base, and under that conceit, then turn around and admonish Fdev by stating that the way it was implemented seems to benefit only a few people.
That's what I'm trying to point out, these modules ARE intended for a specific few, the New Players, to help them with the more difficult and/or alien (no pun intended) aspects of the game. Because docking/launching and supercruising are A) Difficult if you don't know how to do, B) One of the first things you do as a new player. These new modules are a way to A) show the new player how to do it right. B) Allow the new player to play while learning how to do it right manually. Because Fdev said that alot of new players find docking/launching and supercruising daunting and are turned away from the game as a result.
These modules allow for the smoothing of that learning curve while they (New Players) find their footing, by streamlining the process of getting the player in their ship, out of the station, into super cruise and doing their first mission. That's why I say they are training wheels. Their primary purpose is to help new players. (Notice I said PRIMARY purpose not only purpose)
The fact that veteran players will them useful is tangential to that primary purpose.
Ok, let's flip this on it's head, because I want to be fair to you position. Let's pretend for a second we are Fdev.
If this was meant as a total quality of life improvement to everyone, then why bother with making the functions modules to begin with? By doing that we have to address the immediate question, slots.
Do we just add the mods and players have to sacrifice something to use these functions? (well no, Fdev did that before and people got ed because it messed with builds) or do we add slots to account for the new modules? (A safer choice, but potentially introduces more power creep.)
Do we add 'dedicated' slots for said modules? Well we could buy why? That's just clutters up outfitting unnecessarily and module creep and also we (Fdev) have decided to move away from restricted slotting. Not to mention it makes the whole justification for slots circular (we makes dedicated slots for something that serves only one purpose which is to equip the module we also made. it's extra programming and UI that's unneeded.)
If this is meant to be a global QoL upgrade, why are we forcing ourselves into a corner like that?
So why wouldn't we just add it as core functionality of the ship like they did with the FSS scanner? This to me seems the safest bet because you
A) Avoid controversy over slots (Either Build breaking or Power/Slot Creep)
B) Is cheaper to develop (less dev time on UI and Programming, just adding it to the right panel)
C) Allows us to put in the new features without adding to the module list (avoid module creep)
So why are we taking the harder and more controversial path for a overall QoL improvement? What potential unseen consequences are we opening up by giving out slots and people don't use them for what we are intended they use it for?
What I'm trying to get across is that, if adding the flight assistance functions were meant as a general QoL improvement for everyone, there is a much simpler and less risky way to have done it. The only reason to take the path Fdev has taken, is because it's part of an additional level of design decision.
Just off the top of my head, perhaps making them modules was a means to an end to justify adding slots. And the SLOTS are the actual general QoL improvement. (this is just a guess, but it makes sense to me.) But that would be an arguement for the SLOTs being the QoL not the modules, which is what this thread is about.
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Oh no please don't start with dictionary definitions! Let's keep the discussion at reasonable level... We're in a space station pub here not in a library! 
Maybe I'm more mellow on this than I once would have been, in part because this is exactly what I've come to expect from FD. They are capable of amazing feats of creativity, but are also capable of taking the easier path. While it would have been nice to see some more interactivity offered during long supercruise flights, it was unlikely to be included as part of a relatively minor update.
Of course if I was inclined to use the SCA in the bubble (which I won't be; that slot is far more useful for holding one of my existing Grade 1 modules and freeing up a Grade 2+ for something else) I could point out that thanks to the SCA it's now possible to interact with maps, transactions, ship systems, Galnet, Codex and other UI elements on even the shortest supercruise hops without risking an overshoot. This is arguably offering some game interaction during supercruise that wasn't practical before, albeit with no new features. But with the ever-present risk of interdiction it's not something I'd be too comfortable doing. Again, probably one for the explorers.
I disagree with your definition, which to be fair is probably colouring most of what we're cross-purposing, but I see that RedPaintedClaw has already gone down that route so I won't fork the thread.
I still don't understand the desire to make these things mutually exclusive.
Thank you.
(Disclaimer: someone almost certainly got there before me).Yes, I agree that convenience for new players was the primary reason. But not the only reason. I think that's where much of the head-clashing might be coming from both in this thread and elsewhere. Seasoned players who have a use case for one or other of the new modules see them as a small QOL update, while those who have no use case see them as a complete waste of time. I do understand how that might rankle. If I didn't have an exploration account I might have been pushed more in that direction myself, given that I have no use for any of the new stuff in my regular bubble-bound account. But I wouldn't deny those other players the right to use the term QOL to describe them.
I'm not aware of the extent of the power creep argument, but there might be something to it in regards to PVP, maybe. It's not a field with which I'm familiar. I can't quite understand how everyone getting an extra slot could in any way imbalance anything, but that could be my ignorance showing. I know I've moved my C1 limpet controller from a Class 2 on my Chieftain to the new Class 1, freeing up the Class 2 for an Engineered HRP I had in storage, so my ship has gotten a tiny bit tougher. I guess technically that is power creep of a sort, but there's nothing to stop everyone else doing similar.
I understand some of the smaller ships got two extra slots, so maybe that's it. Otherwise it feels like a win all round to me.
I have a strong suspicion, as more features are added to the game, that FD will eventually have to bite the bullet on this one and accept that some features will have to exist as software modules rather than physical hardware taking up ship slots. Otherwise the increasing space requirements will need a trip to Gallifrey for the Engineering. So I wouldn't write unified limpet controllers off just yet. There are another three updates to come before the big one in 2020, and I expect further QOL tweaks will be among them.
Maybe I'm more mellow on this than I once would have been, in part because this is exactly what I've come to expect from FD. They are capable of amazing feats of creativity, but are also capable of taking the easier path. While it would have been nice to see some more interactivity offered during long supercruise flights, it was unlikely to be included as part of a relatively minor update.
Of course if I was inclined to use the SCA in the bubble (which I won't be; that slot is far more useful for holding one of my existing Grade 1 modules and freeing up a Grade 2+ for something else) I could point out that thanks to the SCA it's now possible to interact with maps, transactions, ship systems, Galnet, Codex and other UI elements on even the shortest supercruise hops without risking an overshoot. This is arguably offering some game interaction during supercruise that wasn't practical before, albeit with no new features. But with the ever-present risk of interdiction it's not something I'd be too comfortable doing. Again, probably one for the explorers.
I disagree with your definition, which to be fair is probably colouring most of what we're cross-purposing, but I see that RedPaintedClaw has already gone down that route so I won't fork the thread.
I still don't understand the desire to make these things mutually exclusive.
Thank you.
Yes, I agree that convenience for new players was the primary reason. But not the only reason. I think that's where much of the head-clashing might be coming from both in this thread and elsewhere. Seasoned players who have a use case for one or other of the new modules see them as a small QOL update, while those who have no use case see them as a complete waste of time. I do understand how that might rankle. If I didn't have an exploration account I might have been pushed more in that direction myself, given that I have no use for any of the new stuff in my regular bubble-bound account. But I wouldn't deny those other players the right to use the term QOL to describe them.
I'm not aware of the extent of the power creep argument, but there might be something to it in regards to PVP, maybe. It's not a field with which I'm familiar. I can't quite understand how everyone getting an extra slot could in any way imbalance anything, but that could be my ignorance showing. I know I've moved my C1 limpet controller from a Class 2 on my Chieftain to the new Class 1, freeing up the Class 2 for an Engineered HRP I had in storage, so my ship has gotten a tiny bit tougher. I guess technically that is power creep of a sort, but there's nothing to stop everyone else doing similar.
I understand some of the smaller ships got two extra slots, so maybe that's it. Otherwise it feels like a win all round to me.
I have a strong suspicion, as more features are added to the game, that FD will eventually have to bite the bullet on this one and accept that some features will have to exist as software modules rather than physical hardware taking up ship slots. Otherwise the increasing space requirements will need a trip to Gallifrey for the Engineering. So I wouldn't write unified limpet controllers off just yet. There are another three updates to come before the big one in 2020, and I expect further QOL tweaks will be among them.
To quote Dr. Ray DeAngelo Harris :