Just when you thought grinding couldn't get any lower...

[Mercy Killing]

Oh ... Just go and try it out for yourself, anyone can do it! Dip in, fly to the edge, then start engaging. My 8 year old nephew has no issues with this. It's easy and you'll see for yourself when you do what everyone else does. The absolute wrong way to do it is to start firing inside the bees nest.

Except doing what "everyone else does" isn't "leet skillz", it is taking advantage of combat exploits. Just tagging a ship with a couple of shots and running away isn't skillful at all, I agree. Which is why I don't endorse it. Also, I just bet your "8 year old nephew" does this in a fully engineered minmaxed ship build. I did specify do so in a completely unengineered ship.


Furthermore, I am not the one making baseless, evidence lacking claims of combat genius/skill. I am simply asking for proof of them from you or anyone else making such claims before agreeing to your grandiose statements. I want to see it done. Otherwise, you're just blowing forum smoke.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Okay, keep blowing up smoke with your buddy mr. Brainfart over there, that's apparently the only thing you're really good at.

What I'm really good at is CZ's and not dying in them. Ignoring your childish insults and "blowing up smoke"? I'm not sure how you blow up a gas, presumably you mean to go further and blow up the smoke atoms which would mean causing a nuclear explosion? And I've never "blown up smoke" with anyone by the name of Mr Brainfart and neither do I know one.

Are you going to bother to try it or not, now that you know how to play a CZ? Or are you going to cut off your nose to spit your face "oh stuff that Jex and Brainfart guy I'm not going to the edg...arrrgghhh I'm dead again, dammit!"?

 

[ozrix84]

What I'm really good at is CZ's and not dying in them. Ignoring your childish insults and "blowing up smoke"? I'm not sure how you blow up a gas, presumably you mean to go further and blow up the smoke atoms which would mean causing a nuclear explosion? And I've never "blown up smoke" with anyone by the name of Mr Brainfart and neither do I know one.

Are you going to bother to try it or not, now that you know how to play a CZ? Or are you going to cut off your nose to spit your face "oh stuff that Jex and Brainfart guy I'm not going to the edg...arrrgghhh I'm dead again, dammit!"?

The game, especially in combat, is as easy as you make it for yourself via ship builds and strategies like "just don't go in shooting! go to the edge and steal npc kills. NOT THE BEEEES!". If you had any inkling about that, you'd never try convince other players of how easy the game is

 

[Urbanski101]

Just fired up the game and popped over to Patterson Enterprise, in Sirius, where a player who's just got the Sirius Permit will be allied.


Probably took me longer to cut 'n' paste all those missions than it'd take to gather 20 MT's.
Granted, you probably wouldn't want to do one of the exploration missions if you were in a hurry but, whatev's.

Grind? Nah.

Yeah, wasn't always like that though was it. At least FDev eventually made MTs available from more than one mission type so that's something I guess.

And you forget about the time it takes to get allied with Sirius in the first place....oh and the fact that Qwent is basically useless. By the time most people get to him they will have unlocked a couple of engineers that can engineer the same modules as him but to a higher level, so they don't 'need' Qwent. He is an arbitrary timesink before you can access Palin.

But you seem to have your teeth buried in this particular...'there is no grind, grind is in your mind' and nothing anyone can say will change that.

 

[Stealthie]

Yeah, wasn't always like that though was it. At least FDev eventually made MTs available from more than one mission type so that's something I guess.

And you forget about the time it takes to get allied with Sirius in the first place....oh and the fact that Qwent is basically useless. By the time most people get to him they will have unlocked a couple of engineers that can engineer the same modules as him but to a higher level, so they don't 'need' Qwent. He is an arbitrary timesink before you can access Palin.

But you seem to have your teeth buried in this particular...'there is no grind, grind is in your mind' and nothing anyone can say will change that.

Not at all.

I'm usually somewhere near the front of the queue to be critical of dull gameplay, and I'm quite happy to do that here too, but let's not get all hysterical about the matter.

In the grand scheme of things, unlocking engineers isn't a big deal and it's rather "cutting your nose of to spite your face" for somebody (not you) to say "I don't use engineers cos they're too much hassle to unlock!!!"
The rewards for unlocking them are unarguably (?) worth the effort.

As somebody else said, personally I'd prefer it if they were unlocked via a variety of little "mini quests" - perhaps a series of chained missions - which lead to you obtaining something for the engineer and delivering it to them or, perhaps, killing a pirate who was causing them trouble etc.

So, dull? Yes, agreed.
Grind? Not so much.

 

[Urbanski101]

Not at all.

I'm usually somewhere near the front of the queue to be critical of dull gameplay, and I'm quite happy to do that here too, but let's not get all hysterical about the matter.

In the grand scheme of things, unlocking engineers isn't a big deal and it's rather "cutting your nose of to spite your face" for somebody (not you) to say "I don't use engineers cos they're too much hassle to unlock!!!"
The rewards for unlocking them are unarguably (?) worth the effort.

As somebody else said, personally I'd prefer it if they were unlocked via a variety of little "mini quests" - perhaps a series of chained missions - which lead to you obtaining something for the engineer and delivering it to them or, perhaps, killing a pirate who was causing them trouble etc.

So, dull? Yes, agreed.
Grind? Not so much.

Fair enough....repped

 

[Drelthar]

If the idea was purely to get you to try new things, then make people try new things.

Dont make them try new things for hours and hours in end.

500 ores mined? Why not 50?

5000 light years from starting point?
What not 1000?

You get the same core experience, mining for ten times longer, or jumping five times further, doesn't give you anything more, so what's the point?

If the unlock was "travel to this system, prospect ab asteroid ring, and bring me back ten ore samples"

And

"Travel to this thargoid site, and bring me back the remains of their robotic critters"

Then it would serve the same function, and be much more interesting and rewarding.

 

[ozrix84]

If the idea was purely to get you to try new things, then make people try new things.

Dont make them try new things for hours and hours in end.

500 ores mined? Why not 50?

5000 light years from starting point?
What not 1000?

You get the same core experience, mining for ten times longer, or jumping five times further, doesn't give you anything more, so what's the point?

If the unlock was "travel to this system, prospect ab asteroid ring, and bring me back ten ore samples"

And

"Travel to this thargoid site, and bring me back the remains of their robotic critters"

Then it would serve the same function, and be much more interesting and rewarding.

Because engineers are end-game, and it's natural for the most powerful stuff to be gated. Have you guys actually ever played any MMO? 5000 lyrs is NOTHING to unlock the most powerful thruster upgrades in the game.. Stop being so entitled about getting everything for the least amount of effort possible. This isn't Candy Crush. If you're "bored" with doing said gameplay, you're playing the wrong game. Or get guardian upgrades, they're made specifically for whiners who can't bear leveling up engineers.

Really dude, the biggest blight of this game is its players. Well night everything got watered down because of the constant yapping and whinging about how everything takes too long, is too difficult, or whatever.

 

[Stealthie]

If the idea was purely to get you to try new things, then make people try new things.

Dont make them try new things for hours and hours in end.

500 ores mined? Why not 50?

5000 light years from starting point?
What not 1000?

You get the same core experience, mining for ten times longer, or jumping five times further, doesn't give you anything more, so what's the point?

To be fair, you're conflating the invite requirements with the unlock requirements.

The invite requirements are just the "level" you need to be at before an engineer is available to you.
It's like how in, say, a CoD game you start off with lousy weapons and only get the super-duper sniper rifle and BFGs later in the game.

Course, humans being what they are, people are going to try and push to achieve things in the most efficient manner but when you're trying to achieve something that's intended to be available to you when you gain a specific level of competence then you probably need to realise that you're attempting to "fast-track" through the game and shouldn't be surprised if that takes a lot of effort.

 

[BlackMirror]

Just fired up the game and popped over to Patterson Enterprise, in Sirius, where a player who's just got the Sirius Permit will be allied.


Probably took me longer to cut 'n' paste all those missions than it'd take to gather 20 MT's.
Granted, you probably wouldn't want to do one of the exploration missions if you were in a hurry but, whatev's.

Grind? Nah.

Hmm. Maybe Qwent wouldn't be so bad. Back when I was first evaluating things it looked like a huge chore, as I hadn't seen many MTs and when I did they were in ones and twos. If getting allied Sirius is anything like my experience ranking up for the Clipper (and prior to that, Sol permit) then Qwent will be a piece of cake.

I might consider it when I get back to the bubble.

 

[askavir]

As somebody else said, personally I'd prefer it if they were unlocked via a variety of little "mini quests" - perhaps a series of chained missions - which lead to you obtaining something for the engineer and delivering it to them or, perhaps, killing a pirate who was causing them trouble etc.

This would be great, each engineers having a "miniquest" to unlock, and those miniquests could keep each engineer individual theme.

Even the infamous (for many) 5000ly unlock could be "fixed" while keeping the theme, instead of "fly 5000ly to somewhere" the game could make use of the already existing POI chain used in passenger sightseeing missions, and send the player to a dozen of the coolest POIs in the area, like Betelgeuse, VY Canis Majoris, Orion, Witch Head, Barnards Loop, NGC 7822, Veil Nebula East, etc etc etc. If would keep the "I only deal with explorers" Palin theme, it could still be a total of 5000ly, but at least any player would get to see some of the most incredible places in the nearish vicinity of the bubble.

Ram Tah instead of requiring 50 shenanigans, could require the player to go a solve one of the Guardian Ruins sites, or pick up some stuff from there.

Etc...

 

[Ian Skippy]

Okay, record your godlike skills and post the video big bois, because I can make some great stories up myself.

Its no godlike skills. Small ships have a low threat score, AI tends to ignore eagles almost completely for example. Try it yourself, its way more fun zipping around in an eagle than tanking in a corvette.

 

[Rob At Work]

Smoking Cigars is bad for you and limiting transportation of such a commodity is perfectly reasonable IMO

 

[Jex =TE=]

The game, especially in combat, is as easy as you make it for yourself via ship builds and strategies like "just don't go in shooting! go to the edge and steal npc kills. NOT THE BEEEES!". If you had any inkling about that, you'd never try convince other players of how easy the game is

Ok, well you go and do it your way then.

 

[Deadly Vindicator]

no need to explain the pain to me, mate. got them all unlocked but last two.

 

[ozrix84]

Its no godlike skills. Small ships have a low threat score, AI tends to ignore eagles almost completely for example. Try it yourself, its way more fun zipping around in an eagle than tanking in a corvette.

I'm good, I'd rather have them fight back.

 

[Stealthie]

This would be great, each engineers having a "miniquest" to unlock, and those miniquests could keep each engineer individual theme.

Even the infamous 5000ly unlock could be "fixed" while keeping the theme, instead of "fly 5000ly to somewhere" the game could make use of the already existing POI chain used in passenger sightseeing missions, and send the player to a dozen of the coolest POIs in the area, like Betelgeuse, VY Canis Majoris, Orion, Witch Head, Barnards Loop, NGC 7822, Veil Nebula East, etc etc etc. If would keep the "I only deal with explorers" Palin theme, it could still be a total of 5000ly, but at least any player would get to see some of the most incredible places in the nearish vicinity of the bubble.

Ram Tah instead of requiring 50 shenanigans, could require the player to go a solve one of the Guardian Ruins sites, or pick up some stuff from there.

Etc...

Uhuh.

It might actually add a bit of "character" to the engineers too.

Auntie Felicity might be a bit of a "mother hen" and want you to go and collect stuff from crashed ships whereas The Sarge might be a "hardass" who'd want you to prove your worth to some faction or Ram Tah might be a "dodgy geezer" who wants you to smuggle stuff or The Dweller is just outright "shady" and wants you to do something illegal like destroying a bunch of cop ships.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You say you haven't unlocked them, then say it should change - try it - an hour of back & forth and you're done.

Don't fear the content

I did three back-forth trips with Tea. That got me not even halfway, and it was excruciatingly dull. Its just looking at loading screens, flying around a star, loading screen etc. It isn't fun. I dont care if it is only an hour of terrible game design, I play games for fun and wont do stuff that isnt fun. If there was some challenge or risk or just anything involved it'd be different. But this is the lamest, weakest, quickest most boring and sad design they could have opted for.

 

[znôrt]

Smoking Cigars is bad for you and limiting transportation of such a commodity is perfectly reasonable IMO

if the trip is the problem, hard limit on rares can be circumvented by having a buddy getting them out of the market for you ...

still, frontier makes gorgeous looking, sounding and feeling games with braindead mechanics. wow, that's new!!!

 

[IndigoWyrd]

This comes down to a very simple case of having to be smarter than the problem.

I unlocked all the Engineers years ago, but I do recall this particular engineer quite well. Not because of any particular effort made, but because I met one of my favorite other commanders during this mission. At the time, there was a boom going on, and Cigars were available in larger lots. It wound up being just 2 trips for me, and left me a sizable number of extra cigars I would have simply sold 209 Ly away. But I noticed another commander, puttering about in a Cutter and sent a greeting. Turns out he was just starting out on this himself, so I offered up my extra cigars to save him a few trips. We’ve chatted and flow together ever since.

Of course not everyone is going to have such fortunate encounters, so this is where being smarter than the problem comes into play:

Find or make a fried.
Have that friend join your wing.
Have that fried fly into the station and buy cigars and drop them for you until you have all 50.
Thank your friend.
Deliver all 50 cigars and be done.