Keyboard and Mouse support confimed for Xbox. What about elite?

[Catman3579]

And I don't think anyone mentioned the inequalities that would result from mouse/keyboard integration. It would be a joke to add m/k for shooters. M/k players would automatically have the upperhand. If you are more precise with a mouse, play pc. I don't want to play with someone who will be "more precise" simply because they are using a mouse. I have to use two toggles to change the direction of my ship, and so should everyone else.

Overwatch is a perfect example. Pc players with always have the upperhand for characters that require precision, say Widowmaker, who is a sniper for those that don't play. Watch xbone players vs pc. 99 times out of a hundred pc will win.

Now throw rails on an eagle, or fixed lasers on a ship. It will be WAY easier to target another ship with that eagle when using a mouse. With one motion, you can put your crosshairs exactly where you want them. It is inherently more difficult to move two things instead of one to acquire the same result.

 

[NewBlacksmurf]

And I don't think anyone mentioned the inequalities that would result from mouse/keyboard integration. It would be a joke to add m/k for shooters. M/k players would automatically have the upperhand. If you are more precise with a mouse, play pc. I don't want to play with someone who will be "more precise" simply because they are using a mouse. I have to use two toggles to change the direction of my ship, and so should everyone else.

Overwatch is a perfect example. Pc players with always have the upperhand for characters that require precision, say Widowmaker, who is a sniper for those that don't play. Watch xbone players vs pc. 99 times out of a hundred pc will win.

Now throw rails on an eagle, or fixed lasers on a ship. It will be WAY easier to target another ship with that eagle when using a mouse. With one motion, you can put your crosshairs exactly where you want them. It is inherently more difficult to move two things instead of one to acquire the same result.

In the interview with one of the Xbox leaders, he suggests their position is if/when offered it should be game specific but also include what you wrote. The gamer should be able to set their preference whether they are playing with gamepad only or mouse/keyboard only as well as mix.

Heres the thing....if you hear this within the context of any game developer who wants this as well as cross play options, it's just going to end up as segmenting players more. So devs will have to create for this game

open -truly open
open- Xbox only with gamepad only
open-Xbox only with mouse keyboard
open - Xbox only with either

private - see above options set by private owner which options are needed

to me that's defeating the whole purpose. Just keep PC as is and console as is with possibly hot as and gamepad

 

[Catman3579]

In the interview with one of the Xbox leaders, he suggests their position is if/when offered it should be game specific but also include what you wrote. The gamer should be able to set their preference whether they are playing with gamepad only or mouse/keyboard only as well as mix.

Heres the thing....if you hear this within the context of any game developer who wants this as well as cross play options, it's just going to end up as segmenting players more. So devs will have to create for this game

open -truly open
open- Xbox only with gamepad only
open-Xbox only with mouse keyboard
open - Xbox only with either

private - see above options set by private owner which options are needed

to me that's defeating the whole purpose. Just keep PC as is and console as is with possibly hot as and gamepad

All in all, it seems like more hassle than it's worth then.

 

[Father Giliam]

In the interview with one of the Xbox leaders, he suggests their position is if/when offered it should be game specific but also include what you wrote. The gamer should be able to set their preference whether they are playing with gamepad only or mouse/keyboard only as well as mix.

Heres the thing....if you hear this within the context of any game developer who wants this as well as cross play options, it's just going to end up as segmenting players more. So devs will have to create for this game

open -truly open
open- Xbox only with gamepad only
open-Xbox only with mouse keyboard
open - Xbox only with either

private - see above options set by private owner which options are needed

to me that's defeating the whole purpose. Just keep PC as is and console as is with possibly hot as and gamepad

You just made several posts about how controllers are not inferior to K&M for Elite, then said that they should keep them separate based on controls. Which is it?

I have stated, with regards to Elite, a control difference will not give a noticeable advantage. That's not mentioning that FD has said the majority of players do not participate in PvP, so even if the difference would provide an advantage (it doesn't), it would affect a minimal section of the community.

Now, as Catman pointed out, Mouse does provide a significant advantage in shooters. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact. That being said, its not an automatic "I win" option, see Gears of War 4 crossplay. If the developers decide to add crossplay and/or K&M support, they should be able to (and will be able to). Would a preference system for matchmaking be nice for these games? Yes, but it may not be feasible for some if their player base cannot handle the fragmentation.

 

[Arthur Shappey]

I think if anyone wanted to play ED with mouse and keyboard they would of brought it on PC already.

I would if I could afford the right PC. I had an X-Box, so that's what I got ED on.

Not that I have much desire for keyboard and mouse. I do have desire for HOTAS, VR, Voice Control and basically I am a total sucker for any gimmick that helps immersion. In that regard a mouse & keyboard is not a great option for me. But I would still be playing ED on a PC if I could.

 

[StiTch]

Why would anyone want to play a space sim with K&M? That seems like an objectively awful method of control compared to flight sticks or something like the Elite pad.

If you want to find this one out for yourself, go watch the Elite PvP tournaments, see who's playing, and message them asking what they use.

Spoiler alert if you're impatient...

Spoiler

Tournament players that use HOTAS are considered something of a slight uniquity. Preference aside, you cannot simply overlook the precision afforded by a mouse.

As it happens I largely use a HOTAS where possible, though on smaller ships such as my iCourier I'm struggling to find a setup with the same deadly fixed weapon accuracy.

All the best to xBone users - hopefully you'll get your KBAM, and it will go some way to absolving your console choice.

*chuckles*

 

[DCFCMiguel]

K/M are always more accurate - for FPSs I was always more accurate on PC and couldn't play for toffee with console gamepads.

That said, I don't think I'll be going down that route for ED, I love being able to lounge around on the sofa and mooch around space. Can't do that with K/M.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

The fact is this:

The pilots you're referring to play on PC which is their platform of choice and where 99% of games on this platform are mouse and keyboard therefore....these pilots who prefer mouse and keyboard use mouse and keyboard. This platform was designed with the thought that gamers will use mouse and keyboard so from a development point, more care was put into those defaults but what creates precision is familiarity of the pilot with x, y or z controls.

Its incorrect to conclude mouse and keyboard are more precise

on xbox one ....where you're posting...the games are dominated with gamepad controls. It would be inaccurate for anyone to write that gamepad is more precise than any other control method when discussing such on a platform where the games are first designed with a gamepad only development focus for this platform.

Lastly, for a pilot of real aircraft and spaceships. It would be inaccurate to say that HOTAS are not more precise than any other control type as these people spend 99% of their time operating while on HOTAS.

Thats all im saying...your comment isn't conclusive as a fact, it's only accurate to say it's what pilots on PC prefer who don't use HOTAS as often as mouse and keyboard. I personally own both but I'm more precise on a gamepad or HOTAs because of what I use most often.

You do realise that a lot of PC players, myself included, use a game pad. We're not all using mice.

But make no mistake. Mouse is more accurate, period. You may not like it, but it is.

But as said before, it's not an "I win button". Far from it. However it does reward he who perseveres.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

And of course I'm talking about PC. You expect me to give examples of Xbox pilots using a mouse right now? The reason PC is the better platform to compare controls on is because it's where all options are available.

 

[Rodafowa]

I'm looking forward to (hopefully) being able to bind commands to my keyboard for certain things. It would be great for vanity camera/multicrew bindings instead of using controller commands. I'll most likely still use my controller for most things, like flight, etc, but it would be nice to bind less used commands to the keyboard.

Yep, that's what I'm interested in. Being able to shuffle some non-combat controls off onto a keyboard shortcut (and so freeing up some gamepad button combinations) would be really handy.

 

[DCFCMiguel]

Yep, that's what I'm interested in. Being able to shuffle some non-combat controls off onto a keyboard shortcut (and so freeing up some gamepad button combinations) would be really handy.

Anyone know if this can be done with the chatpad? Would save me from the good ol' boosting into the station walls when I wanted the landing gear down...

 

[Rodafowa]

Anyone know if this can be done with the chatpad? Would save me from the good ol' boosting into the station walls when I wanted the landing gear down...

It can't, more's the pity. But the first thing I did when we got reconfigurable controls was to shift bloody landing gear to Y+DPadDown to prevent exactly that.

 

[Fray]

It's not. Just to give an example. Something like 80% of pilots in the PvP league used mouse and keyboard.

Trust me. It's the most difficult control setup to learn... But when you learn... Oh boy is it good.

No stick can ever be as accurate as a mouse. Keyboard is fine for throttle.

Each to their own, but to me keys'n'mouse aren't anything to do with gaming (a few genres on PC fit them perfectly, but they're not genres I've any interest in) - they're office peripherals. A mouse may be degrees more accurate than a flight stick, but broadly speaking the analogue sticks of a pad (particularly with the tallest sticks of the Elite, plus some subjective tweaking to the sensitivity/accel curves) can do all the things you need in a game like Elite.

Point being that beyond a certain degree the benefits of 'moar accurate' become redundant.

And in terms of subjective immersion I'd feel it would be an utterly dreadful experience compared to flight sticks. Dual analogue sticks are, pardon the pun, a far better analogue for flight controls as it is, so pads would trump office peripherals, too (ditto for SRV input).

It'd be very interesting if both MS and FDev supported sharing inputs across the joypad and keyboard. I have a small USB keyboard always plugged in to the Xbox, and so it'd be handy to be able to offload some binds to that. However, I'm skeptical that'll happen.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Each to their own, but to me keys'n'mouse aren't anything to do with gaming (a few genres on PC fit them perfectly, but they're not genres I've any interest in) - they're office peripherals. A mouse may be degrees more accurate than a flight stick, but broadly speaking the analogue sticks of a pad (particularly with the tallest sticks of the Elite, plus some subjective tweaking to the sensitivity/accel curves) can do all the things you need in a game like Elite.

Point being that beyond a certain degree the benefits of 'moar accurate' become redundant.

And in terms of subjective immersion I'd feel it would be an utterly dreadful experience compared to flight sticks. Dual analogue sticks are, pardon the pun, a far better analogue for flight controls as it is, so pads would trump office peripherals, too (ditto for SRV input).

It'd be very interesting if both MS and FDev supported sharing inputs across the joypad and keyboard. I have a small USB keyboard always plugged in to the Xbox, and so it'd be handy to be able to offload some binds to that. However, I'm skeptical that'll happen.

Well, nobody is forcing you to use a mouse and keyboard. (BTW, controllers weren't always a thing. What do you think Elite 1984 was played with?)

But just because you don't want to use a mouse and keyboard, doesn't mean others shouldn't have the opportunity. I apologise if I misunderstood, and you in fact have no objection to mouse and keyboard existing on console platforms.

 

[Rodafowa]

Well, nobody is forcing you to use a mouse and keyboard. (BTW, controllers weren't always a thing. What do you think Elite 1984 was played with?).

...it wasn't a mouse, I can tell you that much.

 

[NewBlacksmurf]

You just made several posts about how controllers are not inferior to K&M for Elite, then said that they should keep them separate based on controls. Which is it?

I have stated, with regards to Elite, a control difference will not give a noticeable advantage. That's not mentioning that FD has said the majority of players do not participate in PvP, so even if the difference would provide an advantage (it doesn't), it would affect a minimal section of the community.

Now, as Catman pointed out, Mouse does provide a significant advantage in shooters. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact. That being said, its not an automatic "I win" option, see Gears of War 4 crossplay. If the developers decide to add crossplay and/or K&M support, they should be able to (and will be able to). Would a preference system for matchmaking be nice for these games? Yes, but it may not be feasible for some if their player base cannot handle the fragmentation.

Not to argue but I've not wrote anywhere that controllers are not inferior. I believe you're applying an invalid interpretation as the context of what I wrote was that based on platform / industry and frequency of usage, the user of any control hardware most often dictates how precise they are in addition to influences their preferences. I continued to write that the developer often placed focus on the primary hardware as to which controller and interface is tweaked and that influences opinion and precision.

What I can tell you 100% is the games that we are testing with mouse and keyboard support on Xbox one aren't able to offer what PC offers due to other factors. Consider the drivers and software also aren't present as its general support and some axis on the mouse also aren't present for all models.


Ill let you two continue that argument without me.
Thanks.

 

[Colossus1921]

I think people are missing out on a fundamental question. If we get kb+m, does that mean that we'll get HOTAS support?

 

[NewBlacksmurf]

I think people are missing out on a fundamental question. If we get kb+m, does that mean that we'll get HOTAS support?

Its two seperate topics. Thrustmaster revealed already that they are releasing T Flight HOTAS One for Xbox one so whenever it's released this holiday, that comes like PS4 but it's unrelated to mouse and keyboard conversations.

 

[Colossus1921]

Its two seperate topics. Thrustmaster revealed already that they are releasing T Flight HOTAS One for Xbox one so whenever it's released this holiday, that comes like PS4 but it's unrelated to mouse and keyboard conversations.

Yes, thrustmaster revealed the HOTAS one. Then they didn't say a word about it for 3 months.

I don't think they're separate topics. Both are usb peripherals that would traditionally not have been supported. If Microsoft's goal is to completely remove the barrier between the Xbox and pc ecosystems (which it seems like it is), peripheral support will have to happen at some point.

 

[NewBlacksmurf]

Yes, thrustmaster revealed the HOTAS one. Then they didn't say a word about it for 3 months.

I don't think they're separate topics. Both are usb peripherals that would traditionally not have been supported. If Microsoft's goal is to completely remove the barrier between the Xbox and pc ecosystems (which it seems like it is), peripheral support will have to happen at some point.

Well consider that there already are T Flight HOTAs for pc/PS4 and PC only and they announced Xbox one/pc in a third new hardware so while a lot of conversations are from assumptions and expectations they specifically replied to a few of our questions to clarify this Xbox one version is unlike the existing PC version so my comprehension is the topic about HOTAS still works like any other controller for Xbox one while the conversations on mouse and keyboard are around the use of existing mice and keyboards with limitations and Xbox expressed guidelines for developers.

Ive not seen any conversation yet that would assume USB support for non-mouse and keyboard hardware so that's why I'm suggesting these are two seperate topics. Even to the extent that USB headphones aren't supported unless made specifically for the Xbox one so that's my logic.