Kill Target Elite Anacondas and Viper 1.1

[Tempus-Fugit]

Price never equals power, never did and never will. To cram more power in ships/airplanes/tanks/whatever you have to make them bigger and heavier, and that brings drawbacks due to that "living in the real world" thing. So you end up with a Tiger II that can blow up everything, except it's so slow you can run rings around it. The most powerful weapon in the universe is not going to be of any help if you can't hit your target.

bad allergy. Wrong time frame.
The Eurofighter Typhoon was designed to be able to do all roles and have no weaknesses. They chucked billions at it and applied the latest tech. Now roll that tech on 3 millenia

 

[Drunk Si]

Price SHOULD equal power. Nuff said. Except in case of Orca - it's a luxury liner. And yes, you SHOULD be able to faceroll paperclips like Viper in a good/big enough ship, even without any skill whatsoever. This "balancing nonsense" is absurd.

That would make for a pretty crap game. It wouldn't remove skill from the equation but it would force everyone to endure hours of arduous grinding to level the playing field.

If you're (not you specifically) a totally useless pilot having enough cash to buy and outfit a python doesn't change or make up for the fact that you're a totally useless pilot.

 

[Sentenza]

bad allergy. Wrong time frame.
The Eurofighter Typhoon was designed to be able to do all roles and have no weaknesses. They chucked billions at it and applied the latest tech. Now roll that tech on 3 millenia

The Eurofighter have no what? Of course is does have weaknesses. All those wonderful features were traded for a shorter operating range.

Now here's the ace: F-35. Enough said.

 

[cherny_prapor]

"All roles and no weaknesses" is an impossible combination - specialized vehicles are always superior to multi-purpose ones in their area of expertise. While Elite's universe is a 1000 years older than ours, the same principles apply there, since the laws of physics are still the same.

Large ships in Elite are good for dealing lots of damage fast and hauling tons of cargo - they have big guns, big cargo holds and big FSDs. Small ships have superior maneuverability and speed, but deal less damage, have small cargo holds and can't jump that far. Each ship class either excels at something or tries to be multi-purpose - it can do a little bit of everything. There are no "do-it-all" ships, and that makes perfect sense.

The F-35 is a very interesting phenomenon, BTW - the program cost more than 800 BILLION bucks and more than 10 years of time, and the plane is still in testing. Probably, the US sticks with the F-16 and F-22, simply because they actually work well and don't cost an arm and a leg

 

[Thomas Jefferson Jones]

I'm talking specifically about Anaconda's from the Kill Target missions. Pre 1.1 I was able to get around to the back of the Conda's and sit there. Now I'm barely lucky to even survive at his back since the one Anaconda could literally shoot directly behind him, there was 0 blind spot. Slightly above the engines or below I was being blasted.

Granted, it doesn vary. Not every Elite Anaconda is the same. Some are easier, some are the god damn bringers of death.

Also, here is an video of myself being the best possible pilot ever... not
[video=youtube;T504HAVbm2k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T504HAVbm2k[/video]

At least he was shooting at you at range, - I killed my last NPC Anaconda using reverse without a hint of protest -

They do seem more twisty close in, - but their AI needs some serious work, - what else is new.

This specimen was really fierce up close, but just rolled over as soon as I started reversing. Didn't even look like he was boosting - ...

I took him from full shields to power plant death this way, - just shortened the video to the last few minutes.

[video=youtube_share;lqqE7olQgwI]http://youtu.be/lqqE7olQgwI[/video]

 

[Stalzy]

At least he was shooting at you at range, - I killed my last NPC Anaconda using reverse without a hint of protest -

They do seem more twisty close in, - but their AI needs some serious work, - what else is new.

What the hell. He's not even attacking you at 1.5km. If I got within 2km his lasers would hurt. If I got within 1.5km, he would fire his plasma.

This particular Anaconda was extremely dancy, so much that 2or3 pips I had a hard time shooting him. I have still been running with shield cells B2. I'm thinking of getting rid of those and going for higher power Beams. C2's.. Will test later tonight.

 

[Thomas Jefferson Jones]

What the hell. He's not even attacking you at 1.5km. If I got within 2km his lasers would hurt. If I got within 1.5km, he would fire his plasma.

Yeah he fired his plasma a few times, and had seekers as well which he fired maybe 3 or 4 times, but then he just stopped and I spent 9 minutes shooting him at from ~1.5 - 2.5km while in reverse completely uncontested.

I've seen others behave passively like this too, its kinda disturbing.

 

[jockmcplop]

Yeah he fired his plasma a few times, and had seekers as well which he fired maybe 3 or 4 times, but then he just stopped and I spent 9 minutes shooting him at from ~1.5 - 2.5km while in reverse completely uncontested.

I've seen others behave passively like this too, its kinda disturbing.

I wrote a thread about my first ever anaconda kill. It was the same, he fired his rail gun and missiles and then just floated there waiting for me to kill him.
I think it might need a ticket.

 

[NerdShowAndTell]

I don't mind they made the things harder, but they should be worth more credits then. Gives me incentive to team up with someone. There should also be more missions like this with various ship types all paying 100k upward. Something in-between stupid 10/20k missions to 200k, etc. So if you are in a maxed out eagel / viper / cobra and choose to make credits from bounty hunting and not space trucking you can. Sitting at nav points or conflict areas killing off pointless drones is not my idea of fun..

Right now I went from enjoying the game and wanting to spend every free chance with it, to wanting to poke my eyes out for the endless nav point grind, etc.

I really enjoy flying the viper & eagle vs anything else in the game.. I should be able to get use out of the upgrades I purchased for those ships to take on some more larger targets.

It's been a long time since an update to a game killed my enjoyment of it completely. Usually there is something fun that replaces the content taken away.

Spent all my time and credits building up a viper and a cobra just to have the one thing I used them for taken away. That just sucks.

 

[Mr. Woof]

Yes, I completely agree with all of you who say: "one Viper or Cobra should not be able to kill an Elite Anaconda", especially not coming out of the engagement more or less unscathed. So all in all I'm completely for more difficult opponents that are more aggressive, cunning and pose more of a challenge:

However, since bounty hunting didn't pay well in 1.07, now in 1.1 profit has become a real problem:
- Small ships like Eagles or Sidewinders pay a pittance, still even a "mostly harmless" Cobra had the nerve to interdict me and didn't do too bad a job in attacking me (apart from dying in the process).
- Medium ships like Asps which often netted some 20.000 - 50.000 Cr with a higher Elite rating, pay less now and have become far more dangerous.
- Large ships are enormous risks (as they should be) but don't pay out a lot if you finally get them. Killing an Elite Anaconda for 50.000 Cr is laughable and not worth the risk, when I risk sustaining more in hull damage and have to pay for ammo too.

You could argue that maybe I'm simply not good enough a pilot, and maybe you would be right. Nevertheless I know from experience that many many players out there are far worse than me and will have even more problems.

Facts are:
1. NPCs are more dangerous and agile in 1.1 (very very good!)
2. Small NPCs with low Elite rating still don't pay well (that's ok I guess)
3. Small and medium sized ships with i.e. Dangerous or Elite rating (Asps, Cobras, Vipers etc) seem to pay less than before, while being far more dangerous. And they take longer to kill and need more ammo. (not good)
4. Large ships are now pretty dangerous, while not impossible to kill with a Viper or Cobra. Nevertheless it's hard to get out of a fight with a Python without sustaining some damage. (good)
5. New heat management in combination with less protection from shields and shield cells, as well as hull integrity and hull damage costs, make bounty hunting costly instead of profitable. (very bad)
6. Fighting is now more fun but also more time consuming than before which in combination with all above makes making money difficult and trading even more profitable. (not very rewarding)

All in all I applaud FD for the new NPC AI. This made fighting much more of a challenge and much more fun. Thank you for than.

By the same token I curse them. I now spend more time for fighting and spend money for repairs and ammo, but earn far less in bounties. Thus bounty hunting for me has changed from being a moderately entertaining source of income to being a more entertaining but expensive hobby. :-/

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I don't mind they made the things harder, but they should be worth more credits then. Gives me incentive to team up with someone. There should also be more missions like this with various ship types all paying 100k upward. Something in-between stupid 10/20k missions to 200k, etc. So if you are in a maxed out eagel / viper / cobra and choose to make credits from bounty hunting and not space trucking you can. Sitting at nav points or conflict areas killing off pointless drones is not my idea of fun..

Right now I went from enjoying the game and wanting to spend every free chance with it, to wanting to poke my eyes out for the endless nav point grind, etc.

I really enjoy flying the viper & eagle vs anything else in the game.. I should be able to get use out of the upgrades I purchased for those ships to take on some more larger targets.

It's been a long time since an update to a game killed my enjoyment of it completely. Usually there is something fun that replaces the content taken away.

Spent all my time and credits building up a viper and a cobra just to have the one thing I used them for taken away. That just sucks.

Thanks for that one. I was still typing while you posted this!!

In addition to your suggestion with more and different missions, it would be nice to know what the guy I'm supposed to hunt is flying. Something like "Mr. Bandit was last reported flying a highly modified Cobra/Python/Imperial Clipper with the name of "Sudden Death" in Sytem LTT 12345 and LHS 9876" I mean when the Police are putting out a Bolo on a Perp they give you car, licence plate and even the clothes he wore, so asking for the ship type shouldn't be out of bounds here

 

[brumster]

I think that's a good summise. Yes, it's more difficult. High-end NPC ships are no longer *sensible* targets for low-end fighters to take on solo. Depending on your perspective, that's good or bad.

From a gameplay perspective - and here's the critical thing - coupled with the state of balance of the rest of the game... I think it's a backwards step right now. Other things need re-balancing to make it worthwhile; for me, it's just made one of the last enjoyable, fun aspects of the game unplayable without adjustments in other areas.

 

[NerdShowAndTell]

Yup - took on a few anacondas tonight. It was NOT fun and exciting, it was boring, a grind, took forever, and a complete waste of time.

Not as bad as camping nav points but this game is one good looking waste of time now. So disappointed.. If I had any other game I was looking to play right now I'd be playing it in my free time instead.

At least before I was doing enough of these 100-200k bounty missions in an hour to make decent credits. Now there is nothing worth the effort of using guns on a ship.. This is now just Elite Space Trucker.

This thing feels like I'm playing a mobile free to play game.. But instead of tapping the screen I'm pushing buttons on a joystick.. 10k.. 10k.. 10k.. :S Gee a few days and I might get 1 million credits :S

 

[Kandarus]

I've been taking Elite Anaconda missions in a viper with no shield cells and with different weapon loadouts, yes even an all pulse one. It taught me new tactics and I like the difficult fights. Not one loss yet though I did have to run a couple times. Live to fight another day!

 

[theEmohawk]

Do you think it's okay for them to stay in the battlefield despite being shot to a pulp? Doesn't make sense, no matter what ship it's facing.

The AI might be getting better. Last night I was interdicted in my Asp by an Elite Asp. I made a mistake in the middle of the fight and lost my shields for a spell, but still got him down to 13% hull. Which is the point that sysSec showed up and the git FSD away.

Or more realistically, can you hunt a B17 Bomber in a BF109?

Yes, yes you can. I'm not sure why people are so mind boggled by the fact that a small, cheap, and fast ship can run circles around, and even KILL something bigger, slower, and more expensive. WW2 Bomber losses over Germany demonstrate that rather grimly, since LOTS of giant, expensive, flying gun platforms were felled by small and cheap fighters.

We fly space SHIPS not planes.

Hunting destroyers with speedboat appears a viable tactic (as recent history unfortunately shows). Hunting destroyers with a swarm of cheap, expendable, but loaded with explosive speedboats would be even more effective .

The analogy of a Somalian pirate in a skiff full of explosives taking out destroyer is reasonable. The two points I'd make are that for the skiff it's a suicide mission, and there's a reasonable chance that the destroyer will limp back to port.