Yeah yeah nah, where are the passenger missions and the autopilot, what are you on about.
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- Thread starter Sandro Sammarco
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Yeah yeah nah, where are the passenger missions and the autopilot, what are you on about.
A minor issue for me. I never new where half the bounties I had where from anyway and ended just dumping them. Then I started going to intersteller factors instead. Now it should be easier. I am sure some NPC's will have intersteller bounties though which could make up for that.
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Again, thanks. I suppose I DO understand it (reluctantly) - I just miss the old days. Life was so much simpler back then. Progress sucks (joke).
Progress sucks (joke).
Not any more. They were sold off in 1980 to Electrolux
Ok, explanation for those who can't understand German and/or whatever Google makes of this: Progress was a german electrics manufacturer who produced vacuums from 1926 till they were sold off to Electrolx in 1980, with an intermission when the production capabilities of the company were deemed to be more important for killing other people than keeping homes clean.
I'd actually disagree with this.
The change is not forced. But has been decided upon for those reasons.
It is entirely possible for example that they could have made detention facilities "independent" (suggested on either this thread or the Save the KWS one) where they are run by a group similar to the Pilots Fed who all factions send their criminals too. It is also possible they could simply have "abstracted" it and said that you get passed round the different facilities due to extradition treaties, or several other options.
The word "forced" here is very misleading, just like when people were saying "incompatible" It's not. It's a choice. One that could have been made differently had the devs so decided
To me that tells me more about the flaws with the new C&P system than issues with the KWS
The KWS was basically butchered to try and cover some of these flaws in a poorly thought through system it seems to me
For me the KWS is pointless mainly as it has some issues mainly:
1) it takes too long to scan - why not link it into the original scan to see if someone is 'wanted' or not. This way we can actually do something rather than wait till we first scan them then do a KWS scan to see if they have loads of bounties.
2) It takes up a slot - surely there should be 'software' slots on ships so we can install software to perform tasks instead of them being actually hardware modules that take up space required for other things. Auto docking is another software thing that should be 'installed' rather than taking up a slot.
3) With the proposal I would make killed cmdrs pay for 'all' the bounties in the superpowers jurisdiction this way they would get penalised but not overly harshly.
1) it takes too long to scan - why not link it into the original scan to see if someone is 'wanted' or not. This way we can actually do something rather than wait till we first scan them then do a KWS scan to see if they have loads of bounties.
2) It takes up a slot - surely there should be 'software' slots on ships so we can install software to perform tasks instead of them being actually hardware modules that take up space required for other things. Auto docking is another software thing that should be 'installed' rather than taking up a slot.
3) With the proposal I would make killed cmdrs pay for 'all' the bounties in the superpowers jurisdiction this way they would get penalised but not overly harshly.
Would "motivated" be better?
yes I suspect so
I suspect it depends on whether you like the new C&P system, or not.
I like it, and despite being a current BGS player and a heavy KWS user in the past (for filthy CR, back in the days when Arissa was PP's #1 and I was at rating 5) I prefer to see the KWS change/adapt to the new C&P than the other way round.
I also want the solution they come up with to have finesse and just "seem right". But, this is a non-trivial problem.. lets face it, no-one in 40 odd pages has managed it (some might think they have, I did on a couple of occasions). But, I am confident Sandro won't let a sub-par solution out the door. The beta solution isn't ideal, certainly, but at least it "fits" and isn't obviously broken in and of itself. It's clear it "breaks" previous usages of the KWS, for certain, but these things can be addressed either with updates to the KWS, or with new ideas, so lets get creative!
Lets take a step back, and ask how we would solve the issues themselves, rather than assuming the solution involves the KWS+bounties and trying to make that specific mechanic work.
For example, if the issue is how to selectively support specific minor factions; We already have missions, but I'm the first to admit the random generation and low payouts (rep/influence) of these when balanced with the time they take makes them less than ideal. Do we need a new gameplay mechanic here? Rather than assuming we have to use bounties to do it, what else could we use? How do we indicate that our actions are in support of a faction? If only we could belong to, or join said faction. Or, perhaps we simply bankroll them with CR - perhaps there is a new contacts option where we pay up to X cr per 24 hr period and this translates into faction influence (and we remove those randomly generated charity missions).
I'm simply giving up after 3.0 goes live.
They broke it, and no combination of hasty workarounds will replace it.
It's pointless to protest, now. I have a short time to use it, and after that, they all get sold.
They broke it, and no combination of hasty workarounds will replace it.
It's pointless to protest, now. I have a short time to use it, and after that, they all get sold.
I'm simply giving up after 3.0 goes live.
They broke it, and no combination of hasty workarounds will replace it.
It's pointless to protest, now. I have a short time to use it, and after that, they all get sold.
Fair enough, I can understand that.
That said, I don't think you're being entirely fair when you say "hasty workarounds". It seems Frontier can't win here.. either they react quickly to issues (as they have done here) and get branded as being "hasty", or they say nothing and get branded as "not listening to the community". That seems like a lose-lose situation to me.
I doubt Sandro will let a "hasty" solution out the door, we might not always like the solution they chose but we should at least give them that much credit, right?
The "time" argument is really thin at this point. After engineering the scanner takes 2 seconds. You don't even need a special fire group anymore, just put it on the same firegroup as your guns(Just make sure you wait for the passive scan to come back wanted before firing).
I think it's SUPPOSED to take up a slot. The idea is to make you choose to have a weaker shield in order to get the increased benefits of the KWS. That's been what a lot of this thread is about, the original suggestions for changing the KWS would have made it fairly worthless and everyone would have thrown it away to get another shield booster. At least now we're back to being able to use the KWS to manipulate the BGS (which it is a great tool for).
I really can't see how you can state 'You're confident Sando won't let a sub-par solution out the door' when that is exactly what is being done!
Either, they knew and decided to nerf the KWS, or they didn't know, which points to bad analysis. Either way, the KWS is being nerfed. And even worse, the nerf effects mostly PvE players who in the main are not effected by the PvP C&P solution.
I'm simply giving up after 3.0 goes live.
They broke it, and no combination of hasty workarounds will replace it.
It's pointless to protest, now. I have a short time to use it, and after that, they all get sold.
Can i have your stuff?
I'm simply giving up after 3.0 goes live.
They broke it, and no combination of hasty workarounds will replace it.
It's pointless to protest, now. I have a short time to use it, and after that, they all get sold.
Maybe you should try it out first. It may not be as bad as you think it will be.
As a PvE player, it won't effect me in the slightest. In fact I may actually fit one, as before I didn't bother.
Exactly - this is the kind of thing that needs to be considered. Rather than simply throwing hands in the air, proclaiming everything broken and saying it's all pointless.
A lot of people seem to be assuming that there will be a reduction in income from the KWS under 3.0. Now maybe that's true, and maybe it might happen that way, but it sounds like the intended result here is that the income stays roughly the same, it's just it all comes from local factions instead. And later, there's an intention to reintroduce being able to hunt bounties across systems using alternative methods (the mention was tracker limpets, etc). This does not sound like an awful way forward.
However, there are lots of ways this could trip up and go wrong. We, as players, have incomplete information, but it is possible to see where issues might arise.
So we're making some assumptions based on what we've seen from using the KWS currently - that it generates a set of bounties from various jurisdictions for each ship, and using the KWS reveals all those other than any existing bounty from the jurisdiction you're in (which the normal scan reveals). How does it generate them? Does it take some of the other non-authority local factions as well? If a local faction does not have an asset in system (like a spaceport, outpost or planet settlement) does it count as having no jurisdiction so cannot issue bounties? Does it ignore any non-authority local factions entirely, and only generate bounties from authority factions in other systems?
If the non-authority local factions do not currently generate bounties on ships, then there will need to be some backend work done to ensure they do - or the new KWS will only ever reveal the local authority's bounty... which you see anyway from a normal scan. This would render the KWS utterly useless.
Also, I don't think it can only use the local jurisdictions list to guarantee claimability - not without kicking another problem further down the road. If the intention eventually will be to have the option of following a target out of the system, or look for ships Wanted in other jurisdictions but Clean in the current one, then out-system bounties still need to be generated, even if they're hidden. Of course, the problem then is what if the system only generates out-system bounties as part of the random roll? The KWS will once again be useless for such a ship, since the out-system bounties will be hidden. And I would have thought you can discover Clean ships with bounties in other systems in the current live build already.
I'm going to mount a KWS and scan some Clean ships in the current live build, and see if I can see bounties generated from purely local non-authority factions. That's a good starting point.
If the problem most people have is with reduced income, then we're jumping to conclusions by simply stating it will definitely be reduced. We don't know that. But it would be useful to try and see where problems might arise with the new system. And my main worry here is that the underlying bounty generation might not be in place for non-authority local factions, which really would make the new KWS useless.
I appreciate your concern. Hasty may not have been the right term.
Allow me to clarify:
I'm not going to get the old functionality back, and any solution compatible with 3.0 will not restore it.
Frontier pushed it out, and found out the hard way many were upset. There will be no happy ending, regardless. This is an irrevocable gameplay change, regardless of what adaptation is used.
Sure, as long as Frontier approves it.
It's not about income. It is about reputation gain.
And, it's already been tested in beta.
Jumping to conclusions? Why was this thread started?
The jury is back, the verdict is guilty as charged, all that remains is the sentencing.
I appreciate your concern. Hasty may not have been the right term.
Allow me to clarify:
I'm not going to get the old functionality back, and any solution compatible with 3.0 will not restore it.
Frontier pushed it out, and found out the hard way many were upset. There will be no happy ending, regardless. This is an irrevocable gameplay change, regardless of what adaptation is used.
Sure, as long as Frontier approves it.
I share your frustration.
Even when presented with a potential solution that preserves the existing NPC use case, and also brings the new Notoriety factor into play, we get a shrug, and 'limiting to the local system is cleaner' comment.
Ho hum, maybe the people supporting this change will change their tune when it's a piece of kit they actually use that is affected.
Oh well, the game goes on, FD do what they want, the players adapt and overcome.
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