Krait vs. Python - Power Distributor

[who?]

I loved(d) the Python, it was my multi-purpose mission-runner. The Krait seems to be better in too many ways, IMO.

IF anything needs to change, I'd rather the Python was tweaked upwards though, rather than the Krait tweaked downwards. Though to be honest, there are probably a lot more ships that no one flies. I'd rather FD took a look at those and gave them minor upgrades to make them more popular, before the Python which is probably still one of the most popular ships.

There's not much point in having ~40 ships in the game if almost everyone flies just 6-7 of them.

 

[Stealthie]

I don't think they're edge cases, as I've explained, these are everyday builds for me, and as I've said, they can get more extreme (defensively), but these are what I consider optimal for what I use them for. We clearly both have a totally different approach to outfitting. For some reason I am defending my way from you. Despite the fact that my builds are about as optimal as possible. How does that work? Am I allowed to build ships my way? And use my builds as extreme examples when armor discussions come up? I'm going to assume you said yes, that s mighty big of you thanks.

I have no idea what you're getting so huffy about.

Build your ships in whatever way you want to.
Just don't try to pass them off as something they're not in an attempt to prove a point. [up]

 

[Aashenfox]

I have no idea what you're getting so huffy about.

Build your ships in whatever way you want to.
Just don't try to pass them off as something they're not in an attempt to prove a point. [up]

I'm not huffy you weirdo, but you have brought me to the verge of annoyance. I'm defending myself from your constant unwarranted attacks on my playstyle. We were talking about shield and armor values so I posted a couple of builds to illustrate how misguided it would be to rely on math alone. I didn't say these are builds everyone should be using, I did say they are great builds, and they are, but I really didn't need your evaluation of them thanks, nor am I trying to 'prove' something. I don't know why you joined this thread in the first place, since you came out has turned from people discussing something to personal attacks.

The question here is whether we think a 40% better boost rate is balanced when taking into account everything else. You seem to have been replying to this thread as if it was a request to nerf the krait. Ever since you came along I've only been able to defend myself and the thread has derailed because you assume I'm trying to say things that I'm not (third time now!).

 

[ozrix84]

IF anything needs to change, I'd rather the Python was tweaked upwards though, rather than the Krait tweaked downwards. Though to be honest, there are probably a lot more ships that no one flies. I'd rather FD took a look at those and gave them minor upgrades to make them more popular, before the Python which is probably still one of the most popular ships.

Personally, I think the tuning around the Python is about right as it is.

The Imperials do not even have good medium freighters in their fleet at all. I have been pointing this out ever since the Python got added to the game. The Imps need a good medium pad multirole ship. I would even settle for a cool looking Imperial Python with some added engine pylons and a spoiler. I think it would be an awesome ship.

An Imperial Py might be the first ship of its kind I might actually be interested in flying...

 

[Aashenfox]

Personally, I think the Python is about right as it is.

oooh, careful, whenever a community says something is 'just right', it gets hit with the nerf bat!! I agree though.

 

[ozrix84]

oooh, careful, whenever a community says something is 'just right', it gets hit with the nerf bat!! I agree though.

Not taking into account the "issue" of it apparently having lighter, yet more durable armor, of course

 

[who?]

Personally, I think the tuning around the Python is about right as it is.

There's not much wrong with it - especially when engineered - it's just to me the Krait seems like a much easier choice for most tasks. More interesting cockpit, fighter bay, extra crew seat, faster (& more agile?). I love alternatives, more than replacements.

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

I look for every engagement I can get into, even in the t9.

Same here...but Krait Krait krait, right tool for the right job as they say

I could get away with a sub optimal ship

Subjective. My ship would be sub-optimal to you..and yours to me. No need to hull tank anything if your opponent can't hit you and you can keep beams on them constantly.

20 rebuys in nearly three years of play, and 14 of them in canyons.

Similar to me...which is one MASSIVE advantage of the Krait. Jump into the fighter and trash that into a mountain
-
The whole topic is subjective because everyone has their own playing style, preferred weapons, flight skill and computer hardware.
Some people tank their ships up and add long range weapons...imo booooooooring. I prefer to see the white of the pilots eyes as their ship explodes.

 

[ozrix84]

There's not much wrong with it - especially when engineered - it's just to me the Krait seems like a much easier choice for most tasks. More interesting cockpit, fighter bay, extra crew seat, faster (& more agile?). I love alternatives, more than replacements.

I agree, and a lot of others would too, considering just how many Kraits are flying in open. You barely see any Clippers or Pythons anymore.

The one thing I would disagree on though would be the cockpit - no doubt the Krait has better visibility, but it's got loose wires hanging everywhere. Unfinished look. The Python's, on the other hand, is more refined. It says "Yeah, I'm a serious hauler, look at me." You could also argue that it has better protection.

 

[Stealthie]

I'm not huffy you weirdo, I'm defending myself from your constant unwarranted attacks on my playstyle.

Well, maybe if you stopped acting like you needed to defend yourself, stopped hurling insults around and just participated in a conversation instead, it'd go better for you?

The question here is whether we think a 40% better boost rate is balanced when taking into account everything else. You seem to have been replying to this thread as if it was a request to nerf the krait. Ever since you came along I've only been able to defend myself and the thread has derailed because you assume I'm trying to say things that I'm not (third time now!).

If you're going to ask that question, you're going to have to be prepared to hear replies that offer opinions that differ from your own.

When people cite how the Krait and Python are "very similar" to highlight a discrepancy between the two, it's only natural that other discrepancies are likely to be brought up too.

That being the case, I don't really have a problem with the Krait's boost.
The Python has other advantages, despite being "very similar" to the Krait.


You probably missed it but there were a couple of big threads, recently, where people were discussing the merit of completely redoing all the ships in a consistent manner.

Personally, I'm all for that - although I doubt FDev would ever have the will to do it.

I'd love to see consistent mathematical models for each ship so that you could, for example, know that for a Krait to be that fast it'd have to be built like a flying beer can compared to the Python.
Or, conversely, if getting the required speed meant it ended up with integrity of 50 (or whatever) they'd just have to adjust the numbers until the integrity increased to a reasonable amount and the top-speed suffered as a result.

People seem to misunderstand this as meaning the ships would "all be the same" but that's completely wrong.
What it'd mean would be that all ships would comply with the same criteria and they'd have to have their stat's (integrity, armor, speed etc) adjusted - and possibly have the core-modules that they're fitted with changed too - in order to give them the properties that the dev's want them to have.

 

[Aashenfox]

Well, maybe if you stopped acting like you needed to defend yourself, stopped hurling insults around and just participated in a conversation instead, it'd go better for you?



If you're going to ask that question, you're going to have to be prepared to hear replies that offer opinions that differ from your own.

When people cite how the Krait and Python are "very similar" to highlight a discrepancy between the two, it's only natural that other discrepancies are likely to be brought up too.

That being the case, I don't really have a problem with the Krait's boost.
The Python has other advantages, despite being "very similar" to the Krait.


You probably missed it but there were a couple of big threads, recently, where people were discussing the merit of completely redoing all the ships in a consistent manner.

Personally, I'm all for that - although I doubt FDev would ever have the will to do it.

I'd love to see consistent mathematical models for each ship so that you could, for example, know that for a Krait to be that fast it'd have to be built like a flying beer can compared to the Python.
Or, conversely, if getting the required speed meant it ended up with integrity of 50 (or whatever) they'd just have to adjust the numbers until the integrity increased to a reasonable amount and the top-speed suffered as a result.

People seem to misunderstand this as meaning the ships would "all be the same" but that's completely wrong.
What it'd mean would be that all ships would comply with the same criteria and they'd have to have their stat's (integrity, armor, speed etc) adjusted - and possibly have the core-modules that they're fitted with changed too - in order to give them the properties that the dev's want them to have.

That's enough of you...bye bye.

When you are ready to respond to what people have said and not what you imagine they said, or transposed to whatever you wanted it to mean, we can have a discussion.

 

[who?]

I agree, and a lot of others would too, considering just how many Kraits are flying in open. You barely see any Clippers or Pythons anymore.

The one thing I would disagree on though would be the cockpit - no doubt the Krait has better visibility, but it's got loose wires hanging everywhere. Unfinished look. The Python's, on the other hand, is more refined. It says "Yeah, I'm a serious hauler, look at me." You could also argue that it has better protection.

Yeah, I get that. I actually loved the first time I flew the Python, it was the first ship that felt like less like a BIG fighter and more like a (current-day) airliner.

 

[Stealthie]

That's enough of you...bye bye.

This absolutely baffles me.

You bleat about wanting a sensible discussion but then constantly respond with insults and jibes.

Stop acting like a snowflake and get a grip. [rolleyes]

 

[Captain Willard]

Krait is a fine ship. I replaced my two medium combat ships, Chieftan and Fgs with Kraits.
I won't be replacing my two Clippers and three Pythons with Kraits tho, the two ships I fly the most.

 

[amadeus1171]

Okay, so a lot of people compare the Krait against the Python, because they share the same core internals. Yet when you look closer at the performance of the distributor, specifically the engines, the Krait manages to perma-boost with just 2 pips in the engines, while the Python's power reserve is empty just after two to three boosts. The reason is the cost per boost:


Krait - boost cost 3 energy units



Python - boost cost 5 energy units

Both ships use the same load out, swapped between them

The Krait's boosts are a whopping 40% cheaper than the Python's. Do you feel that this difference is too large, or not?

Why would anyone justify paying the extra 10 mil for the Python, when it is so hopelessly outmatched? Is it for the extra class 6 internal, or the slightly better defense, which you could argue gets negated (and then some), when you're being pummelled by a SLF?

You barely see anyone flying Pythons or Clippers anymore, because they've been pretty much rendered obsolete by this new ship.

This is why the python needs an SLF.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Okay, so a lot of people compare the Krait against the Python, because they share the same core internals. Yet when you look closer at the performance of the distributor, specifically the engines, the Krait manages to perma-boost with just 2 pips in the engines, while the Python's power reserve is empty just after two to three boosts. The reason is the cost per boost:

Indeed it is, but they are two very different beasts.

The Krait's boosts are a whopping 40% cheaper than the Python's. Do you feel that this difference is too large, or not?

I don't think it is - I actually use the two ships for different roles. The Python might be objectively slower, but it still hauls more. More on this later.

Why would anyone justify paying the extra 10 mil for the Python, when it is so hopelessly outmatched? Is it for the extra class 6 internal, or the slightly better defense, which you could argue gets negated (and then some), when you're being pummelled by a SLF?

You barely see anyone flying Pythons or Clippers anymore, because they've been pretty much rendered obsolete by this new ship.

It's not all about combat, though, is it? The Python is still the BGS king - you can haul two 5+ missions in it (reaching the effective cap for influence in a system if unopposed), and still have the ability to add a few points by taking out mission-specific targets. The Krait hasn't rendered the Python obsolete at all. If anything, it has clarified its role within the metagame.

I fly my Python practically every time I log in, unless I'm engineering, exploring or fighting. I use my Python to create the conditions under which I do everything else.

 

[ozrix84]

I don't think it is - I actually use the two ships for different roles. The Python might be objectively slower, but it still hauls more. More on this later.

Don't you think that never going out of juice with 2 pips is a bit over the top, though? What other ship does that?

This is why the python needs an SLF.

Unfortunately the design doesn't account for a SLF bay. Don't know if the Chieftain didn't either though, so it might be possible..

 

[Aashenfox]

Indeed it is, but they are two very different beasts.

I don't think it is - I actually use the two ships for different roles. The Python might be objectively slower, but it still hauls more. More on this later.

It's not all about combat, though, is it? The Python is still the BGS king - you can haul two 5+ missions in it (reaching the effective cap for influence in a system if unopposed), and still have the ability to add a few points by taking out mission-specific targets. The Krait hasn't rendered the Python obsolete at all. If anything, it has clarified its role within the metagame.

I fly my Python practically every time I log in, unless I'm engineering, exploring or fighting. I use my Python to create the conditions under which I do everything else.

I must spread reputation around, etc.

QFT

 

[the100thmonkey]

Don't you think that never going out of juice with 2 pips is a bit over the top, though? What other ship does that?

None that I know of, but I would suggest that it doesn't make that much difference. If you're comparing the Krait to the Python, I'm saying that it's not an appropriate comparison. If you're suggesting that the 2-pip permaboost is OP, that's a totally different question; one that I have no opinion on as I don't use the Krait for PvP.

 

[ozrix84]

None that I know of, but I would suggest that it doesn't make that much difference. If you're comparing the Krait to the Python, I'm saying that it's not an appropriate comparison. If you're suggesting that the 2-pip permaboost is OP, that's a totally different question; one that I have no opinion on as I don't use the Krait for PvP.

Okay, thanks for chipping in.