Latest stream has more dislikes than likes... FD are you listening?

[BlackMaze]

I will say… and only because it is being openly discussed in this forum thread specifically between CMs and the community…

I have some concern and doubt in relation to what the CMs consider harassment versus critique.

I think anybody that is familiar with my content knows that I am primarily focused around positive community events. My content has always surrounded the promotion of Elite.

My recent feedback, which I would class as constructive criticism, with a touch of emotional venting, resulted in a set of surprising consequences I won’t go into detail about.

I think what Elite needs is a good set of positivity surrounding all the things it CAN do right now and I would argue that collaboration between The community and the Community Management Team here is key.

Talk to people that raise concerns with you. Be clear in your communications and realize that often a simple “looking into it, can’t say more” is usually enough.

Support people that are running into issues while trying to promote the game through mediums like machinima or group events.

Public facing “new found openness” is not enough. It must reflect in all communication, also those behind the curtain.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Abuse of all sorts should not be entertained.

That doesn't mean I have to be nice to @Bottom Hat on the forum, Nooooooo!!!

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Hey Danieros,

This is exactly why it's not going to be a quick fix. We're looking at what's best for the health of PowerPlay and what works for the majority of players who partake in it. It's impossible to please everyone in a scenario like this but we want to take the time to work through player thoughts about it and decide what we can do.

I can't speak to how PowerPlay has been addressed in the past as I only started in December of last year, and the current community team really only formed in it's current shape around the first half of 2020, so anything before that we can't really impact on.

Great to hear that the devs are genuinely engaged with the conundrum of how to elevate powerplay and fix its longstanding gameplay issues.

Experienced powerplayers will have a lot to contribute here from all organised groups, a good chunk of which they will agree on. But what I implore when considering balance across modes (what open-only proponents are after), is that you do not give any credence to claims about the open play experience from people who do not do powerplay in open. They have literally no idea how it plays out (or worse, often don't do powerplay at all) and most of their objections to mode balance proposals actually stem from this ignorance. Unsurprising since they never experience it. I'd go as far as asking people to state if they spend any time doing powerplay in solo or PG before listening to what they have to say on that aspect. Even if it's 1%, that 1% of the time is almost certainly a "super-rich" 1%, that has 99% of the strategic consequences, and where player resistance to their actions would be greatest. (Now ask yourself why it's that 1% where they disappear to closed modes ).

o7 for keeping focussed on the task in the face of a slightly uproarious community right now.

 

[bangermsuk]

That doesn't mean I have to be nice to @Bottom Hat on the forum, Nooooooo!!!

they made exception for that case, bit like the commodore computers interrupts routines.

sorry @Bottom Hat

 

[Icooperzzz]

I've seen one yesterday - unfortunately even if they get removed within minutes (which it did) that doesn't help the target who has already read it. But I agree it's a well moderated forum alright.

“Well moderated” is one term for it, when you can get a temp ban for simply asking a forum mod how they enjoyed their time in Open Play, without breaking any rules.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I'm surprised that if someone said anything that heinous they hadn't been dished out a warning or had their post removed or been banned already quite frankly. The moderation that exists here is robust. Very surprised the people who have been so disgusting haven't been removed.

A lot of it is via social media. Plus its easy to make a troll account.

 

[active851]

This is a game. This is not life and death.
Assaults on individuals, whether verbal or physical must not be tolerated.
There is no 'taking it on the chin' - personal attacks in any form are unacceptable.
A minority has made me feel ashamed to be part of a community that I held so much respect for, however, I still know that the vast majority here are decent and intelligent human beings.
On behalf of those who fail to understand how to respectfully communicate their points of view - I'm sorry.

 

[Rat Catcher]

they made exception for that case, bit like the commodore computers interrupts routines.

sorry @Bottom Hat

Oh well, that's both of us on the watch list then, friend!

I will admit that Arf's post has been a long time needed, interesting times ahead.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Hi! Please give me an example of harassment so that I can outline the boundaries.
or please answer the question, in your opinion are messages like "you know, I feel cheated because in 2020 frontiers said "yes, we are planning ship interiors, just not at the odyssey launch" and after the odyssey release "you know, we have no plans for ship interiors"?
or criticisms such as "the situation around the odyssey has been caused in large part by the closed nature of the fronts regarding information about new updates and details of their development, as well as the cries of 'white knights' - we don't want to know any details about the development of the odyssey!
Because we are all different as human beings, the boundaries of what is harassment and what is not are also different.
there are people who may be offended by the word "hello!" because it contains the word "Hell" and decide that the speaker wishes them a painful eternity in hell.
please outline your personal and team boundaries of what is harassment and what is not.

Dude. It is not hard to differentiate between 'criticizing a product' and 'attacking a person'. If anyone needs other people to spell out what harassment is they need to do some soul searching, my friend.

 

[Rat Catcher]

This is a game. This is not life and death.
Assaults on individuals, whether verbal or physical must not be tolerated.
There is no 'taking it on the chin' - personal attacks in any form are unacceptable.
A minority has made me feel ashamed to be part of a community that I held so much respect for, however, I still know that the vast majority here are decent and intelligent human beings.
On behalf of those who fail to understand how to respectfully communicate their points of view - I'm sorry.

Come & join us on the "State of the game" thread.... Everyone welcome and 1200 pages of severe off-topic hilarity to cheer up those dark days
(assuming it hasn't been locked yet...)

 

[CMDR Von Abrahart]

I think people need to do a harassment course

 

[Tharrn]

@sallymorganmoore and @Zac Cocken - thank you for showing your faces here and for not just giving us marketing pep talk. This is very much appreciated and is the way to go!

Edit: wow, automatically pings usernames, which need to be complete then

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Sometimes clear communication is better than clausulised marketingsprech. Not necessarily more popular but clearer in indication of intent.

Indeed. But on the other hand, seeing a dev go ballistic with the entitled would be priceless!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

That doesn't mean I have to be nice to @Bottom Hat on the forum, Nooooooo!!!

I don't know, I hear he has lots of stuffz.

 

[Riverside]

Latest stats on the youtube video (linked in the OP) if anyone's interested in keeping score:

Likes 147
Dislikes 371
Views 3,743

That is all.

The number of dislikes has gone down to 370 (153 likes, 3815 views).

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

open only anything doesn't solve anything because anyone interested in exploiting the game to their advantage will just connect via open and close p2p connections to other players on the network level.

So with almost no effort ...you completely circumvent the entire purpose. That's ignoring those who have not done that network change and just dont instance with people due to the normal way the game behaves.

I see no benefit to tying anything to modes as long as the networking backend remains as it is in the game.

Assuming enough people do that to have a significant difference vs the normal limitations of the p2p instancing system.

But anyway, to me there has to be some dependence of any rebalance on "instanceability", not just game mode. E.g. create a fake virtual instance where ping or number of players doesn't matter - if we both end up in it then we're "in open". If we're blocked by mode, by block function or at network level then whoever is causing that is "not in open".

If p2p instancing just doesn't cut it in general, then upping the NPC challenge has to be the leveller, and that can be tuned using the same principles to account for the increased risk in open.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

“Well moderated” is one term for it, when you can get a temp ban for simply asking a forum mod how they enjoyed their time in Open Play, without breaking any rules.

I mean - if someone visits my house, there are a number of courtesy rules involved (such as taking off your shoes) - if they don't follow those despite knowing this then there'll be some form of blowback. So

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Indeed. But on the other hand, seeing a dev go ballistic with the entitled would be priceless!

It can turn the other way round pretty quickly. Devs should do what they get paid for. Design and code the game. They can PR, too? Good, give them a role in some community feature. But the bulk of pr work should be done by professionals.

 

[PRORABBIT67]

 

[angusmadmac1]

But regardless of what people think of the game right now or which name is now saying they're leaving or stopping play, personal attacks or simply innacurate or targeted cruel opinions on members of staff are not good. That's the bit in here that I'm talking about.

I live by the mantra always treat people the way you want to be treated . I've spent too much time on the customer oriented side of things . If they were face to face it would be totally different but with a certain anonymity people get brave .
Be most excellent to each other .