Lets test this persistent universe and see if FD are true to their word.

[orfeboy]

I think there is one more important part in Walt's list: "nearby enemies or allies".

Lugh is a really big system, surrounded by many allies. So I don't expect, that a system take over is simple. ... IMO at the moment, the standard environment is working against the take over, since most neighbours are Feds. So the "background" simulation supports the Feds, because NPCs are mainly trading for Fed stations. ...

I got / took several "delivery" missions to other systems, that increased influence for CSG and a non Fed party at the station. When I did deliver the contract, it was the first time, that I got a blue up (influence) arrow for CSG, blue up (boom) for the mission receiver. As a result in the general stats screen, I got a "red down" (relation) from the Fed station owner.

So I think, if it is possible, we should also have a closer look, who owns the surrounding stations, where we by commodities, to deliver them to Lugh. If it is possible we should not by at Fed's stations. ... At least I try to support the "opposition" in Fed controlled space, or I go to Independent systems and by there.

---------

As orfeboy points out, If the "support" traders try to maximize the profit, they probably cause collateral damage, pushing the Feds in the surrounding systems.

---------

Some brainstorming:

Let's say we changed Lugh to be independent. ... What happens next? ...

IMO we will need to expand CSG to neighbouring systems. Growing influence there will be much easier, if there are several parties with decent %age. If we only have 2 or 3 parties with low %age and one Fed party with 60++ it will be very hard there too.


So let's also have a look at the surrounding systems! It may make live much easier in the future.

just my 2 cents
have fun!
-j

Obviously we are trapped by how the metagame works but ideally I would prefer to avoid Empire building. It goes completely against the grain with me. I despise Empires. In an ideal game I would like to free worlds and create independents who run themselves.

Originally I had a personal vision of what Lugh as a system is and for the purpose of indulging my little fantasy the idea of CSG expanding smells of Empire building to me and makes me feel very uncomfortable...

Obviously this is only a game and not everyone is inspired for the same reasons but for me the back story has quite a bit of depth to it that many (I admit) who are not aware of the mix of real world mythology and real world history would not be aware of. Both of these things acted as obvious inspiration for me as soon as I started to notice the large number of system names and planets that I recogise in my countries native language based on mythology in the game. From my first notice of a fishy name I began searching for others and guess what? There were tons of them!


Lugh is a God of the ancient celtic world. My personal vision was based around celtic culture and real world celtic law (to those of you who care) The basis of this civilisation does not agree with how the Federation does things. To become the Federation is to sell our souls IMO.

For what it is worth based on the source of the original idea should Lugh ever be liberated, I have a whole other related idea waiting in the wings that would allow the saga to continue, but it does not include Empire building.

But I realise this thing/test is bigger than just me and would not exist if the players did not participate and however the players wish to run it is both beyond my control and not mine to own.

 

[Brindarm]

Obviously we are trapped by how the metagame works but ideally I would prefer to avoid Empire building. It goes completely against the grain with me. I despise Empires. In an ideal game I would like to free worlds and create independents who run themselves.

Originally I had a personal vision of what Lugh as a system is and for the purpose of indulging my little fantasy the idea of CSG expanding smells of Empire building to me and makes me feel very uncomfortable...

Obviously this is only a game and not everyone is inspired for the same reasons but for me the back story has quite a bit of depth to it that many (I admit) who are not aware of the mix of real world mythology and real world history would not be aware of. Both of these things acted as obvious inspiration for me as soon as I started to notice the large number of system names and planets that I recogise in my countries native language based on mythology in the game. From my first notice of a fishy name I began searching for others and guess what? There were tons of them!


Lugh is a God of the ancient celtic world. My personal vision was based around celtic culture and real world celtic law (to those of you who care) The basis of this civilisation does not agree with how the Federation does things. To become the Federation is to sell our souls IMO.

For what it is worth based on the source of the original idea should Lugh ever be liberated, I have a whole other related idea waiting in the wings that would allow the saga to continue, but it does not include Empire building.

But I realise this thing/test is bigger than just me and would not exist if the players did not participate and however the players wish to run it is both beyond my control and not mine to own.

Me too. I was initially planning on exploring and working for the Alliance, but found this experiment too interesting to pass up. Now that I think we've found the right formula I'd be happy to assist with freeing other systems from Federation or Empire control but am not too keen on the idea of helping a faction expand it's control beyond it's own borders, but we'll see.

 

[dennis]

market mechanics broken?

Hi all,
I am also very curious as to how the mechanics in Lugh will work out for CSG. In trying to help some sort of revolution from happening i am trading out of one of the CSG stations. To my suprise I only see changes is supply when buying items, but no fall in demand whatsoever when selling. That got me thinking about the trade mechanics...

The way I see it, trading to a CSG station cannot have any impact at this moment as the size of the demand will be the only driver of change in any direction. This would especially be true for weapons & armour I suppose.

And if this is true, then to me that seems as if one of the major drivers in this dynamic universe is 'offline' at the moment.

Not sure wheter to ticket this...

Any ideas?



ps if this problem has been covered somewhere (& i didnt find it) i apologise for slacking...

 

[Rearden]

Hi all,
I am also very curious as to how the mechanics in Lugh will work out for CSG. In trying to help some sort of revolution from happening i am trading out of one of the CSG stations. To my suprise I only see changes is supply when buying items, but no fall in demand whatsoever when selling. That got me thinking about the trade mechanics...

The way I see it, trading to a CSG station cannot have any impact at this moment as the size of the demand will be the only driver of change in any direction. This would especially be true for weapons & armour I suppose.

And if this is true, then to me that seems as if one of the major drivers in this dynamic universe is 'offline' at the moment.

Not sure wheter to ticket this...

Any ideas?



ps if this problem has been covered somewhere (& i didnt find it) i apologise for slacking...

I have been testing some of these mechanics myself on a out of the way system and in my case I am trying to prevent an expansion rather than pursuing one. It is not going well regarding the game feedback on my actions (every mission I do I am stuck with "0% blue arrow" and no faction moves at all influence wise in the system) but for this specific case you mention I can see the market change because it is a much smaller market.

As other suggested I provided weapons for my faction station which initially had a demand of 20 or so weapons (HIGH). I provided them with more than that in the first go and as you say it didn't update so I kept fetching more weapons. However when I got there the demand had gone down to 17 (MED) or 12 or something (can't remember exact number now but it had went down by an amount - not the full amount that I sold but some amount). In any case I kept selling and 2 days ago it went to 0 demand (LOW) and it has stayed there for a while.

So you can fully serve the stations need by yourself, however it will take a much larger amount of goods than the ones stated in the market screen.

 

[orfeboy]

I have been testing some of these mechanics myself on a out of the way system and in my case I am trying to prevent an expansion rather than pursuing one. It is not going well regarding the game feedback on my actions (every mission I do I am stuck with "0% blue arrow" and no faction moves at all influence wise in the system) but for this specific case you mention I can see the market change because it is a much smaller market.

As other suggested I provided weapons for my faction station which initially had a demand of 20 or so weapons (HIGH). I provided them with more than that in the first go and as you say it didn't update so I kept fetching more weapons. However when I got there the demand had gone down to 17 (MED) or 12 or something (can't remember exact number now but it had went down by an amount - not the full amount that I sold but some amount). In any case I kept selling and 2 days ago it went to 0 demand (LOW) and it has stayed there for a while.

So you can fully serve the stations need by yourself, however it will take a much larger amount of goods than the ones stated in the market screen.

I too have noticed this but assumed it only changed at each days normal server update. Since the system has to account for goods coming in vs goods going out each day.

 

[_Flin_]

I have been testing some of these mechanics myself on a out of the way system and in my case I am trying to prevent an expansion rather than pursuing one. It is not going well regarding the game feedback on my actions (every mission I do I am stuck with "0% blue arrow" and no faction moves at all influence wise in the system) but for this specific case you mention I can see the market change because it is a much smaller market.

As other suggested I provided weapons for my faction station which initially had a demand of 20 or so weapons (HIGH). I provided them with more than that in the first go and as you say it didn't update so I kept fetching more weapons. However when I got there the demand had gone down to 17 (MED) or 12 or something (can't remember exact number now but it had went down by an amount - not the full amount that I sold but some amount). In any case I kept selling and 2 days ago it went to 0 demand (LOW) and it has stayed there for a while.

So you can fully serve the stations need by yourself, however it will take a much larger amount of goods than the ones stated in the market screen.

Valuable information.

Some more info:
I figured out two things when trading in a small test system:
1. There is a threshold to be reached before demand starts to react. Me and a friend were supplying Indite to a small (65.000 pop) refinery / extraction system. It was in high demand. It took a few hundred tons until the Demand value and sell price reacted to our deliveries. Then it reacted with every delivery.
(Edit: changes were erratic. 51, 49, 5, 14, 24... delivery was always 108 tons, qnd demand was in the 12.500 area).
So it seems as if the multiplier for delivery needed is at least 2, since I never got a demand change that was higher than half my delivery.
2. Supply numbers appear to be production based and get updated at least once every full hour.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Hi all,
I am also very curious as to how the mechanics in Lugh will work out for CSG. In trying to help some sort of revolution from happening i am trading out of one of the CSG stations. To my suprise I only see changes is supply when buying items, but no fall in demand whatsoever when selling. That got me thinking about the trade mechanics...

The way I see it, trading to a CSG station cannot have any impact at this moment as the size of the demand will be the only driver of change in any direction. This would especially be true for weapons & armour I suppose.

And if this is true, then to me that seems as if one of the major drivers in this dynamic universe is 'offline' at the moment.

Not sure wheter to ticket this...

Any ideas?



ps if this problem has been covered somewhere (& i didnt find it) i apologise for slacking...

i think changes in demand change slower in large systems, simply due to the numbers involved.

lets say, for example, that Balandin Station requires 50,000 tons a day of iron to keep its factories running at peak efficiency. If it's getting only 20,000 tons a day, first the local importers' stock gets depleted (low), then the factories' stock gets depleted (medium), and finally factories have to slow down or stop production because they don't have the iron they need (high)

 

[Viajero]

So you can fully serve the stations need by yourself, however it will take a much larger amount of goods than the ones stated in the market screen.

Could this be due to the demand figure being updated by newly created demand adding up, at the same time as you bring goods in?

I.e. if the stated spot demand is 20 but increases by 30 by the time you bring in 33 tons then the updated spot demand you see after your trade would be 17 etc.

 

[_Flin_]

Could this be due to the demand figure being updated by newly created demand adding up, at the same time as you bring goods in?

I.e. if the stated spot demand is 20 but increases by 30 by the time you bring in 33 tons then the updated spot demand you see after your trade would be 17 etc.

I'd say its more because of NPC traders.
But the Demand is actually not
(Demand before selling) - (Amount sold)
It is, as always, either some undocumented under-the-hood stuff or randomized.

 

[sirius42]

56 % .

 

[Rearden]

I'd say its more because of NPC traders.
But the Demand is actually not
(Demand before selling) - (Amount sold)
It is, as always, either some undocumented under-the-hood stuff or randomized.

According to the DDF it should be (Demand before selling) - (Amount sold) + (Demand generated by station) - (Demand satisfied by NPC trading).

Demand generated by station however is under the hood calculation and should be affected by population size, government type, and wealth among other factors. Demand satisfied by NPC trading should also be affected by other variables in the system like "security" (i.e. killing system authority ships and cargo vessels should reduce NPC trading I think). How much of it is actually implemented however is anyone's guess.

 

[CMDRKNac]

Any news from the devs on what is working, what is broken, etc? I hope they give us answers soon, waited long enough...

 

[ollobrains]

devs are active but their focus seems to be elsewhere, suggest if u havetn and have a ticket slot open that u ticket youre favourite system as being broken due to influence not changing, and that being yorue gameplay goal

 

[orfeboy]

Current status:

Crimson State Group 56.1%
Lugh for Equality 39.8%
Dominion of Lugh 0%
Lugh Defence Force 3%
Silver Natural 0%

CSG now has a blank 'pending states'

LDF still has blank 'pending states'

the blue up and red down arrows have both disappeared.

 

[Yanaran]

Could it be that back when the civil war was "triggered but didn't stick", it started some kind of cooldown timer so the system needs time before another conflict can be started? So you don't get a situation where a system enters civil war and the losing side just triggers a new one over and over? Just thinking out loud here...

 

[orfeboy]

Could it be that back when the civil war was "triggered but didn't stick", it started some kind of cooldown timer so the system needs time before another conflict can be started? So you don't get a situation where a system enters civil war and the losing side just triggers a new one over and over? Just thinking out loud here...

I would think you are right. But I am starting to believe civil war is a bad thing. If you look at the states under each faction you will see the state of civil war can be under a single faction. Who are they having civil war with? Surely if this civil war were with another faction it would have to be under two of the available factions pending states? If the system were working correctly that is... But when you get missions that reduce civil unrest (if that is actually related to civil war and we should be careful about assuming that) the blue arrow is going down as if that is a good outcome. The computer tells you lowering civil unrest is good. Who's civil unrest is it that you are lowering? Is it among the followers of CSG?...

We do not have any solid answers to any of these things but we should not be in a rush to think that any of these pending states are favourable results.

My current theory is that we are on a slippery slope and trying to climb up in influence. Too much of any one effects triggered by doing too many of one particular mission type tips off one of these pending states and they are bad. I am guessing these states considerably slow your rate of progress until resolved.

If conquering a system is possible in this game I am guessing a clear lead in influence is how it is done. If we get a clear lead of about 70% I would think we have a good chance of this happening naturally. If the Feds think otherwise then FD will inject a combat zone themselves.

I have no facts to base this on. Its just a theory...

Having said all that, below are the tactics we have been following and should continue. What we have been doing has been gaining ground and so until it stops we should not stray from it:


-Keep bringing in non-lethal weapons and sell them ONLY at Crimson State Group controlled stations. You can see who owns a station in the system view map.
-Choose Perunario Orbital as the main station to do CSG missions from. we are attempting to flip this station. Do not buy goods there do only missions.

Missions you should be doing:
-Fuel the arts of war missions and all military based missions should be the mainstay of missions we do now. We are trying to push civil unrest up and Lock-down down in the opposition controlled stations.
- Keep trading the above commodities with our own stations.

 

[ollobrains]

I would think you are right. But I am starting to believe civil war is a bad thing. If you look at the states under each faction you will see the state of civil war can be under a single faction. Who are they having civil war with? Surely if this civil war were with another faction it would have to be under two of the available factions pending states? If the system were working correctly that is... But when you get missions that reduce civil unrest (if that is actually related to civil war) the blue arrow is going down as if that is a good outcome. The computer tells you lowering civil unrest is good. Who's civil unrest is it? Is it among the followers of CSG?...

We do not have any solid answers to any of these things but we should not be in a rush to think that any of these pending states are favourable results.

My current theory is that we are on a slippery slope and trying to climb up in influence. Too much of any one effects triggered by doing too many of one particular mission type tips off one of these pending states and they are bad. I am guessing these states considerably slow your rate of progress until resolved.

If conquering a system is possible in this game I am guessing a clear lead in influence is how it is done. If we get a clear lead of about 70% I would think we have a good chance of this happening naturally. If the Feds think otherwise then FD will inject a combat zone themselves.

I have no facts to base this on. Its just a theory...

I think FD have no idea what they are doing yet. Perhaps the faction is at war with itself, and if the civil war goes on long enough it might split itself into a new faction

 

[_Flin_]

Imho there can be two outcomes:
Election event and peaceful takeover.
Civil War and forceful takeover.

As long as you manage to raise influence, all is well. Congrats for the efforts, and I am admiring your efforts and dedication.

P.s.: yellow font is really hard to read on mobile devices, since they have standard white background.

 

[M. Volgrand]

Hello CSG allies!

Well, today I have been experimenting a bit with my friend Aybkamen and we asked the question... "is it possible to trigger a conflict zone?". So we tried a few things:

1) WE got FSD interdictors and tried to stop any opposing CSG ship we found. But we soon though that it was a lost time, two pirates hitting a few ships would not do any signifiant change.
2) We went to the nav baecon, but we remembered that everyone was fighting over there 22 hours a day. Nop.

So finally, we decided to try to blockade... The Cavendish Ring federal station! (As we say in spain, "con dos cojones").

The experiment turned out some interesting AI protocols activating:

-I opened fire a few bullets towards the station (multicanon) from 10km affar. Immediatly, I earned a fine for shooting in the no fire zone, and when the bullets hit the station it "autorized lethal response".
-The patrols around the station engaged against me, as it was expected.
-Soon we destroyed all the patrol ships, all federals, and for almost one minute nothing happened.

Then there it comes the interesting things:

-Groups of 5 ships appeared to attack us... F-63 Condors! And looking closely, I realized that Cavendish Ring was deploying them. So yeah, we activated the defense protocols of the station.
-More and more federal ships started jumping over us. Started normal combat ships: Vipers, adders...
-Suddenly, a few Anacondas appeared, and my friend and I splitted away, fighting one ship each (we had gotten very far away). We destroyed 2 each...

And suddenly, the next anacondas that appeared were armed with plasma accelerators! Yeah, I literally said "What the heck is he shooting at... OH GOD MY SHIELDS!!" and checked up. Yep, plasma accelerators, and according to the damage it inflicted to my cobra... good ones.

AT this point I got destroyed (by a failed stunt, crashing agains the anaconda. At least I destroyed it too ). But after that experience, that raises me a couple of questions:

-What if we had stayed longer? Would the federation send even better ships?
-What would have happened if I manage to shoot directly to the station (assunming that its huge firepower doesnt disintegrate my cobra)
-If the federation did send even better ships, would that have been converted in a full scale event? Could it have caused that a Capital Ship was sent to the zone?
-If it happened, what effect would it have over the Lugh power balance?

So, I want to propose we test that. We could do it either in Lugh or, if you are afraid of the consequences, any other system nearby. I propose we gather a groups of cmmdrs (maybe 6 or 8), travel to the entrance of an station and blockade it. And just see what would happen in the end if we keep fighting for a long time.

Thoughs?

 

[orfeboy]

Imho there can be two outcomes:
Election event and peaceful takeover.
Civil War and forceful takeover.

As long as you manage to raise influence, all is well. Congrats for the efforts, and I am admiring your efforts and dedication.

P.s.: yellow font is really hard to read on mobile devices, since they have standard white background.

There are some people working very hard here. What we need now is for one good hard push again and see what that brings. It may be more difficult now that the Chrismas holidays are over and people are busy with work etc. So progress may be slow but we need to keep going to see results. We have to be pretty close now to doing 'something' whatever that may be...