LOL, I didn't think about it like that. I'm glad someone is thinking about it from the pragmatic capitalist view. Kudos sir.
LGBTQ+ Flags as ship paint jobs?
- Thread starter Jerbango
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Imho ED is a neutral game for everyone, no matter what gender, religion etc.
Lets keep it that way.
Lets keep it that way.
The world of Elite is not the world of today.
Regardless of the validity or providence those flags are a symbol of struggle. To put those symbols into the Elite universe symbolises that those struggles still exit so far into the future.
For me Elite at its core is meant to be an aspirational game. Freedom in the stars.
Personally I feel that the inclusion of such intersectional symbols without the inclusion of all would be to cast a division / seperation between those represented and those not. This runs counter to the cause for equality.
I don't care what Mr and Mrs Higgins at number 23 get up to, especially as their getting on a bit.
I rather like to think they just play scrabble. And I don't want them conserned about what I do.
Thats why we have the social norm, to not really talk about that stuff. Anything equal must come with equal expectations.
The pride march was a really important thing, especially in the beginning.
The subsequent 'were here, were queer' movement also great. Especially in terms of normalisation and acceptance.
But in many parts of the world (significantly the ones where the game draws most of its players from) that movement has done its job. Meaning 'special dispensation' activities (like getting a special skin) are counter productive to the end goal.
Everyone is aware that different people exist and its not OK to be a Richard just because of that. And yes, bigotry exists, but not because of a lack of awareness.
So because I believe rainbow ships will be counter to the cause, feed into damaging political thought patterns and break immersion I am against
I second that. I don't care to have ANY of this injected into my escape from the "in your face" real world...
And if someone wants to complain about halloween and christmas themed items, feel free. Generally, I think of those as a hodge podge of various religions and beliefs with secular humanistic profit mongering thrown in for good measure, but if they truly bother someone, they absolutely should complain...
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All you have to do is look at the discussions on the state of the current CGs and you'll realize neutrality is not what this game is about. Maybe if you're an explorer. Most people get involved in Power Play or CGs, and they are rife with politics and division.
Every faction in every system is a form of government.
This is simply about choice. You don't have to put a gay flag on your ship, just like you don't have to stamp Federal or Imperial logos (who all represent a political, socio economic form of government) all over your ship.
Every faction in every system is a form of government.
This is simply about choice. You don't have to put a gay flag on your ship, just like you don't have to stamp Federal or Imperial logos (who all represent a political, socio economic form of government) all over your ship.
They do not have sexual lifestyle connotations attached to them as their main promotion.
Yes but these are not REAL issues. Apples and oranges...
And you can change your alignment/affiliation without repercussions. It is NOT real. Don't try to act like it is! Unless you are so deranged that you are going to start being a hater of Imperial Players and such with as much venom as some people exhibit in the real world, this is non sequitur. And if you are that venomous, you have some severe psychological issues you need to deal with that I'd prefer that you not bring into this GAME!!!
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They do, though. Christianity absolutely does have sexual lifestyle connotations. It is the centrality and dominance of Christian standards as part of default culture which makes this type of conversation so fraught in the first place. It's notable that there are no other religious symbols or religion-adjacent symbols in Elite besides Christian ones. Why? Because Christianity is such a dominant and inescapable cultural force that we can get away with telling ourselves that something like a christmas tree or halloween decorations are basically, functionally secular and therefore don't "count." For some reason a rainbow flag doesn't get that same kind of free pass, but it absolutely SHOULD.
You imply Christian symbols. I assume you mean Halloween and Christmas, since that is the weak little drum that is being beaten here. I don't see those as purely Christian Icons, and at best, they are horribly corrupted ones that some would complain about if they were really trying to make it "all christian" as you are seeming to say. BUNK, I say. Pure crud. Worthless conjecture. Stretching the truth to fit your needs. Typical...
If you want to complain about those "christian icons" by all means do so. I think they will fall on deaf ears, because they really are not purely christian anymore, and anybody that is not so overly sensitive will realize that you are seeing demons where none exist...
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I'm not sure that I can answer this without getting a warning from the Moderators. Maybe you got one...
Of course Christianity has sexual lifestyle connotations. It is part of life. The whole deal with a Christian marriage is two people get together, have kids, raise a family and with a little faith always going for the good everyone has a great life moving on. In the hard times that faith is up to them and not always Christainity. Other faiths have figured it out.
Christmas and Halloween are accepted universal concepts most of the planet likes. Being a business Frontier went with them because flying an AspX in October it is nice to have a pumpkin bobble head moving around in ED, Then I wait for a bright eyed princess who shows up at my front door asking me for candy. It heals my heart seeing those innocent eyes in a difficult world.
Love fixes everything. Hate fixes nothing. Faith can help.
Regards
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I don't think its any different to being able to pick a male or female pilot to be honest. Let people do what they like it's not a big deal.
Saying you welcome self expression as the opener then explaining why it shouldn't be allowed based on some miss truths is pretty hypocritical.
for clarity the flag does not denote your sexuality, and its not about "look at me"
well firstly its not a declaration, its a flag of principles, respect and equality, about being equals.... but yes it is necessary as clearly its not understood and people need to speak up and know they will be supported against any discrimination
- One in five LGBT people have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their sexual orientation and/or gender identity in the last 12 months
- Two in five trans people have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their gender identity in the last 12 months
- Four in five anti-LGBT hate crimes and incidents go unreported, with younger LGBT people particularly reluctant to go to the police
The biggest problem is the fact no-ones talking about it, through open dialogue and discussion people can learn the struggles the community faces on a day to day basis, none of these statistics are "social norms".
- Three in 10 LGBT people (29 per cent) avoid certain streets because they do not feel safe there as an LGBT person
- More than a third of LGBT people (36 per cent) say they don’t feel comfortable walking down the street while holding their partner's hand. This increases to three in five gay men (58 per cent)
- Eight in 10 LGBT people (80 per cent) lie about their sexuality to avoid discrimination in the online gaming community
Lifestyle... a lifestyle implies you have a choice, if you used the same wording to describe race rather than sexuality that would not be acceptable at all, and rightly so, but it also does not make it right to describe sexuality as a 'lifestyle' as it certainly inst a choice which the word lifestyle very much implies.
this is exactly why i feel its important, and these items need addressing, these small micro aggression's can have a big impact on peoples mental health, and if they were said in the workplace would all be grounds for a tribunal, it shouldn't be socially acceptable to degrade someones sexuality by describing it as a lifestyle and imply the flag promotes it.
Let people do what they like it's not effecting you.
If one doesn't like the word 'Lifestyle' what would they call it? It is pretty generic without any negative connotations. I have one and so do many more on the planet. All are different and we get along respecting each other's differences. Still there is never a reply only hating a word then promote an issue. A bad decision if one wants to get others to listen.
Some have a lifestyle that others may not agree with. It is correctly labeled as a lifestyle being generic. Move on...
Some have a lifestyle that others may not agree with. It is correctly labeled as a lifestyle being generic. Move on...
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You keep repeating those things and while I agree, that's nowhere near the point I'm trying to make.
But Fine, you're right. Let's bring all the issues forward into the game of spaceships.
You'll get your LGBT flag? I want Free Tibet flag.
Actually people did complain about those and the Christmas/Santa Claus themed CG and the Christmas themed Player events as favoritism over one religion over another, or allowing or forcing religion into the game etc
So, people eh.
As per the OPs Suggestion, no different from any suggestion of
"Can we have a decal for x y or z"
One of the things about all the ProGen is you have male looking characters with female names, female looking characters with male names, Female SLFP with wives, male SLFP with Husbands and no connection with how the character looks with the culture origin of their name, star ports, installations and outposts that combine names from various cultures in a system side by side, that portrays the future as one where people have moved past in in a nice background way.
it is derogatory, offensive and documented in media guidelines and enshrined in law.
GLAAD Media Reference Guide - Terms To Avoid
Offensive: "homosexual" (n. or adj.)Preferred: "gay" (adj.); "gay man" or "lesbian" (n.); "gay person/people"Please use gay or lesbian to describe people attracted to members of the same sex. Because of the clinical history of the word "homosexual," it is aggressively used by anti-gay extremists...
www.glaad.org
for further reading and education of what is and isn't acceptable.
laws the law, you might not agree with it.
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Right...You are listening to the wrong people telling you how to think. But I won't change your mind about the real world. Sad actually as meeting people like me will make your limited lifespan on this planet so much better. I don't care if you have a different sexual lifestyle nor do I want to know about it. Don't put it in my face. I do care if you are a loving caring human who respects all other humans they meet in their lives. Work on that.it is derogatory, offensive and homophobic and documented in media guidelines and enshrined in law.
GLAAD Media Reference Guide - Terms To Avoid
Offensive: "homosexual" (n. or adj.)Preferred: "gay" (adj.); "gay man" or "lesbian" (n.); "gay person/people"Please use gay or lesbian to describe people attracted to members of the same sex. Because of the clinical history of the word "homosexual," it is aggressively used by anti-gay extremists...
for further reading and education of what is and isn't acceptable.
laws the law, you might not agree with it.
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A rainbow flag on a ship isn't a display of sexuality...the harem my CMDR carts around, at the cost of 30% of his gross, might be though.
I'd like to draw the line at the 4th wall, keeping player and character as distinct entities.
However, Frontier has thoroughly blurred that line with everything from core game mechanisms (modes, blocking applying to instancing, trivial log off timers, and non-enforcement of rules, shoddy in-game tools and the encouragement of third party ones, for example) to the other cosmetic items (I can give bobbleheads and other cockpit decorations a pass in the current game, as no one else can see those, but we have severely anachronistic nation-state flags that you can paint on the outside of your CMDR's ship for all to see) that have been in the store as long as there was a store.
The only other line of relevance is what is likely to cause actual harm to people. I think they have an epilepsy warning somewhere, and if necessary they could include a "warning: this game contains pastel colors arranged in patterns that may offend the delicate sensibilities of prejudiced bigots", or something to that effect in the EULA.
Since Frontier doesn't give a about the first line, and there is nothing that could possibly be painted on the exterior of a ship that could reasonably be expected to harm someone, I see nothing objectionable in the slightest about offering pride flags, or whatever, for sale in the store. There appears to be some mild technical hurdle, but that's about the only contraindication. It would probably even be significantly profitable...there is no way anything so needlessly controversial could sell less well than the bottom half of the garbage in the store.
Feel free to avert your gaze.
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