LIFETIME Expansion pass, and Python Mk2

[Arioch]

Although I feel you are right, what was the role of the value bundle LEP / KS guys got (the one with snowflakes and other things)? Was that FD drawing a line under the LEP /KS?

I would say though it is a very grey area- after all we still get beta access.

Beyond was originally due to have paid-for content before all becoming free:

Spoiler

As many of you will know, we previously mentioned that premium (paid for) content would also be coming within the Beyond season of updates and that Lifetime Expansion Pass holders would be getting this for free. However, as we went through the early stages of what the next era for Elite Dangerous would be, we decided that it would be better to spend that additional time on the future content, rather than bringing new types of purchasable content out this year.

This is a big positive for the long term future of the game and its content. However, we also understand that there are people with Lifetime Expansion Passes who haven’t received paid for content in this season, because Beyond has been free to all owners of Horizons. We truly appreciate the support and commitment that those owners put in us when they purchased the LEP and we will be making sure that there is a form of free store content going out to them by the end of this year. Zac 2018

…so as compensation and to show they truly appreciated the support and commitment of LEP holders, FDev gave us two bobble heads (one of them a snowflake, yes, very droll FDev) and 6 paint jobs I’ve never used:

Spoiler

• Snowflake Bobblehead
• Snowman Bobblehead
• Mamba Midnight Black
• Krait Phantom Midnight Black
• Imperial Cutter Iridescent Gleam
• Federal Corvette Iridescent Gleam
• Anaconda Iridescent Gleam
• SRV Iridescent Gleam

I’ve lost all interest in the new ship after finding out the cockpit is essentially the same as the Python Mk1 (I like to have a walk around the bridges in VR), but the whole thing about should early access be included with the LEP (my view is that it should) reminds me of the recent furore with Escape From Tarkov (game version sold with “all future DLC” included, then saying new DLC wasn’t DLC because (vague hand wave) reasons and please pay $100 if you want it, kthxbye) - though at a much lesser level of course

 

[Jmanis]

... reminds me of the recent furore with Escape From Tarkov (game version sold with “all future DLC” included, then saying new DLC wasn’t DLC because (vague hand wave) reasons and please pay $100 if you want it, kthxbye) - though at a much lesser level of course

I'm reminded of the time a friend working quarantine had someone come through having answered "No, I don't have any food" on their entry card.... and had several kilos of various lollies and snacks. Asked why they didn't declare it... "It's not food, it's candy[1]!"... they were cautioned about false answers on their entry card and moved on, but nonetheless...

[1] These days, entry cards are a bit more specific, but I digress...

 

[Factabulous]

The problem is that when we bought the LEP the prevailing way of updating software was via DLC - often with betas to test them out. So the LEP gave access to that.

But in 2024 the game industry has switched to 'advanced access' where players can buy in for access to finished updates before 'the masses' get it. Like buying the 'premium' versions of Starfield giving access before the base version.

If fdev was interested in maintaining goodwill for the LEP they would have said to themselves 'ppl bought the LEP to get updates as soon as possible, so they should get the advanced access'. Instead they chose* 'we have their $$$ - they wait with others'.

Which is fine - they traded goodwill for the hope that LEPers will pay again for advanced access.

* you can tell they had discussed it because when asked about the LEP access they responded almost immediately - they didn't need to discuss it because they already knew the answer

 

[House0fDerp]

If fdev was interested in maintaining goodwill for the LEP they would have said to themselves 'ppl bought the LEP to get updates as soon as possible, so they should get the advanced access'. Instead they chose* 'we have their $$$ - they wait with others'.

I'm not sure what special goodwill LEP holders need maintained that is special to them at this point since the LEP has been honored and there is no indication that will stop.

To the contrary, they find themselves in the same state as every expansion holder. And expansion buyers are just piecemeal buyers of the same products.

I'm not sure I follow the logic that the LEP holders are owed more than the product they bought because a new product exists. Similarly, I don't get why, if the new transaction is an issue for LEP holders, the same isn't true of Odyssey buyers since those people are ostensibly buying into what LEP holders get one expansion release at a time.

 

[Factabulous]

I'm not sure I follow the logic that the LEP holders are owed more than the product they bought because a new product exists. Similarly, I don't get why, if the new transaction is an issue for LEP holders, the same isn't true of Odyssey buyers since those people are ostensibly buying into what LEP holders get one expansion release at a time.

You should probably be a bit more open minded then - quite possible for others to not agree with you

 

[House0fDerp]

You should probably be a bit more open minded then - quite possible for others to not agree with you

It's readily and obviously apparent people disagree else this conversation wouldn't be happening. You do realize that, I hope?

 

[Factabulous]

It's apparent people disagree else this conversation wouldn't be happening. You do realize that, I hope?

No. You are attempting to gaslight people. And I know you do realise that. Bye.

 

[House0fDerp]

No. You are attempting to gaslight people. And I know you do realise that. Bye.

How is that gasslighting? I suspect you either don't know what that word means or are doing it yourself. Also, playing these word games isn't actually supporting your position that you're owed more than the contents of the product you bought.

 

[hems303]

I'm an LEP'er x2 (one at £80) and don't expect anything other than 'Expansions'. It's a pity how FDev are going about the new ships, can understand the necessity but unfortunately it does smack of something from Chris Roberts. o7

 

[Weps]

I'm not sure what special goodwill LEP holders need maintained that is special to them at this point since the LEP has been honored and there is no indication that will stop.

To the contrary, they find themselves in the same state as every expansion holder. And expansion buyers are just piecemeal buyers of the same products.

No, they most certainly DO NOT find themselves in the same state as a regular expansion holder. Otherwise what would be the difference?

A LEP owner expects access to all past, present and future updates to the game. An expansion holder gets access only to the present content version (and, until recently, also past ones because of the way they are rolled into new ones, but see below).

Let's cut to the chase here, we're arguing the nomenclature of content updates. People read "Lifetime Expansion Pass" and immediately think that if the content update is not labelled as an expansion, then the pass should not apply. But this has not been the case in the past, as FDEV have constantly switched and played around with the names of the content updates. "Horizons Expansion", "Beyond Season", "April Update", "December Update", all these had different names and were included in the pass.

So now if FDEV decides to package content updates as "store packs" (e.g. "Water Worlds Store Pack", "Advanced Life-forms Bundle" etc. etc.), should that be included in the LEP, or not? If the next vehicle would be a battle tank, or a hover bike, operating in the same boundaries of surface exploration but fundamentally changing the Horizons gameplay, would that be out of scope of the LEP, because it's not sold as an "expansion"?


Sidenote: now with Horizons owners being able to purchase ship variants, I think this will be the first time in the history of E: D where someone can skip a content update, and still be able to acquire upcoming non-cosmetic game content. Am I wrong? Someone correct me please.

 

[vanFace]

It's a pity how FDev are going about the new ships, can understand the necessity but unfortunately it does smack of something from Chris Roberts. o7

Well, maybe Roberts bought some shares and is now at the helm? Wouldn't that be hilarious? Star Citizen: Dangerous, the new joint-venture of dad-game money-sinks.

I mean, it is not like the SC concept was unsuccessful. It would certainly give FDev a good boost. And there are enough white-knights here to welcome their new overlords in a glorious way.

 

[House0fDerp]

No, they most certainly DO NOT find themselves in the same state as a regular expansion holder. Otherwise what would be the difference?

A LEP owner expects access to all past, present and future updates to the game. An expansion holder gets access only to the present content version (and, until recently, also past ones because of the way they are rolled into new ones, but see below).

No one has access to future content right now. LEP holders have the promise of future content in the form of expansions and non-LEP holders have the option to buy up to current equivalent content through expansion purchases. So long as that parity exists, they do find themselves in the same situation as far as playing content at any point in time.

Let's cut to the chase here, we're arguing the nomenclature of content updates. People read "Lifetime Expansion Pass" and immediately think that if the content update is not labelled as an expansion, then the pass should not apply. But this has not been the case in the past, as FDEV have constantly switched and played around with the names of the content updates. "Horizons Expansion", "Beyond Season", "April Update", "December Update", all these had different names and were included in the pass.

There have been 2 paid expansions. LEP holders have had the same access to them that any other purchaser had, as well as any subsequent content gated by those purchases, or any content provided for free. They have had the same experience.

So now if FDEV decides to package content updates as "store packs" (e.g. "Water Worlds Store Pack", "Advanced Life-forms Bundle" etc. etc.), should that be included in the LEP, or not? If the next vehicle would be a battle tank, or a hover bike, operating in the same boundaries of surface exploration but fundamentally changing the Horizons gameplay, would that be out of scope of the LEP, because it's not sold as an "expansion"?

We'll have to cross that bridge if and when we come to it. For now, there doesn't seem to be any confirmed exclusive content from these extra purchases, which IMO would be the mark of an expansion vs early access to select content which will be delivered later to the expansion population.

Sidenote: now with Horizons owners being able to purchase ship variants, I think this will be the first time in the history of E: D where someone can skip a content update, and still be able to acquire upcoming non-cosmetic game content. Am I wrong? Someone correct me please.

You're correct so far as I'm aware.

 

[JosiahD]

Question to Frontier,

So with the LEP, us holders are supposed to get access to new content added to the game etc.
With Frontier going in to selling ships, all good and fine. No complaints, They have to stay in business.
My issue with it is, the new python mk2 is locked behind "purchase" now in the arx store to get early preview before release.
This kinda goes against the spirit of the LEP when it was put out possibly.
Is that arx cost for us LEP holders going to be 0, or will it be available for us LEP holders from the preview date in the regular ship stores?

Or is this the Beginning of the end of the LEP promise?

Been a while since I've regularly trawled the forums, but thought I'd provide my perspective. I am a lifetime pass holder from the kickstarter. I always took this to mean free access to DLC in the form of expansions (eg Horizons, Odyssey). I never considered it to apply to store items like cosmetics. I have no issue with the plan to provide ships through the Arx store and I don't see these as expansions for which the lifetime pass would apply, especially as the ships seemingly will eventually be purchasable in game with credits (eg in Aug in the case of the Python Mk 2). Besides, I've well and truly gotten my money's worth from my lifetime pass, many times over, and I irregularly buy items from the store to contribute something back to FDEV. Now, if the expected new gameplay feature (which I assume at this point will be base building.....) is a DLC expansion but isn't covered by the lifetime pass, that would be different - but even then I'd likely buy a cosmetic or two from the store in return anyway.

 

[Northpin]

A LEP owner expects access to all past, present and future updates to the game

Yes, but the Python mk2 - which will be added to the game in August - is not an expansion
And LEP does not give access for free to store bought items

It not nice for FDev to release ships in early access, but i cant say they are in the wrong to LEP holders

 

[Jack Winter]

Yes, but the Python mk2 - which will be added to the game in August - is not an expansion
And LEP does not give access for free to store bought items

It not nice for FDev to release ships in early access, but i cant say they are in the wrong to LEP holders

I'm not a LEP holder, but IMO it couldn't cost Frontier much in lost ARX sales to just give the early access P2 to LEPers..

But their decision to decide between goodwill and potential revenue..

 

[Northpin]

I'm not a LEP holder, but IMO it couldn't cost Frontier much in lost ARX sales to just give the early access P2 to LEPers..

But their decision to decide between goodwill and potential revenue..

Unless this cost them money (dev time to make it happen since they would probably have to add ships manually to each LEP owner as the store is not set to work with LEP)
just saying that not everything they do must be malice

 

[Weps]

No one has access to future content right now. LEP holders have the promise of future content in the form of expansions and non-LEP holders have the option to buy up to current equivalent content through expansion purchases. So long as that parity exists, they do find themselves in the same situation as far as playing content at any point in time.

I didn't say they have access, I said they expect access. The context here being future content. I don't know why you are referring to past or present access, or in-game experience. The core of the matter is what LEPers should expect to get in the future.

Let's take Odyssey owners for example - yes, they can access the same game features as LEPers - but in terms of future content, they know that at some point in the future, FDEV is gonna say: "that's it, that was the Odyssey expansion, hope you liked it, but this new stuff here, you have to pay for it!".

LEPers on the other hand, expect FDEV to say: "we have this new content and those guys over there are getting cut off from it, but not you! you bought the LEP so you get it automatically!".

That's the difference between the two categories.

We'll have to cross that bridge if and when we come to it. For now, there doesn't seem to be any confirmed exclusive content from these extra purchases, which IMO would be the mark of an expansion vs early access to select content which will be delivered later to the expansion population.

I'd say we're somewhere half way across that bridge.

Is exclusive content for a while not exclusive? I already said in another post that 3 months is a short time, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that May - June - July, you'll be able to split the playerbase between Python MKII Haves and Python MKII Have Nots.

The Horizons expansion itself, it was exclusive for about 5 years, and then it wasn't anymore.

Yes, but the Python mk2 - which will be added to the game in August - is not an expansion
And LEP does not give access for free to store bought items

That's the point I was making further down: what if content starts getting delivered more and more through store items, rather than old-fashioned expansions? What would be the point of the LEP then? The Python MKII is a good proof-of-concept: it's a non-cosmetic piece of content (it only comes bundled with cosmetic items) and it is deployed with a very short shop lifespan (3 months).

 

[Jack Winter]

Unless this cost them money (dev time to make it happen since they would probably have to add ships manually to each LEP owner as the store is not set to work with LEP)
just saying that not everything they do must be malice

Yes, I didn't consider this..!

 

[Northpin]

That's the point I was making further down: what if content starts getting delivered more and more through store items, rather than old-fashioned expansions? What would be the point of the LEP then? The Python MKII is a good proof-of-concept: it's a non-cosmetic piece of content (it only comes bundled with cosmetic items) and it is deployed with a very short shop lifespan (3 months).

Honestly, chances for another PDLC are really really slim.

 

[Popalu]

LEP'er here, and I will be looking to pay ARX for the new ship, when it becomes available. I do believe that I have had my money's worth from the game over the years, so I don't expect to get early access to ships/skins, etc as part of the LEP, just any paid for, future expansions, until they say the spirit of the LEP has been fulfilled, when/if that ever happens.