limit max jump in route plotter (beyond just your cargo capacity)

[glaukos]

LOL. So your go-to response to anyone who disagrees with you is that they must be a troll?

No, when people say things that are blatantly nonsensical and/or provocative I suspect that they may be trolling rather than sincere. I'm not using "troll" as an insult or as a pejorative. It's a description of someone who is trying to be provocative and de-rail a conversation rather than making a sincere contribution to the discussion. If you have a sincere, reasonable disagreement then that's not trolling. But when someone just says, "um you already have this tool," and that's it. That is not a productive contribution to the conversation. It is a provocation. And if you have any doubts, just look at the follow up post, "because I believed that it would be self evident if you took the time to actual use your brain and think about why i said you already had the tools." This guy is clearly just trying to provoke me. He is not participating in a sincere conversation.

As for you, I see you declined to back up your previous allegations when I challenged them. Don't think I didn't notice.

But still, if you want to have a sincere discussion, my understanding is that you are opposed to my suggestion because you think it is unnecessary. But why is that a reason to oppose it? This is a sub-forum explicitly devoted to suggestions. You could respond to literally any and every suggestion with, "Well it's not necessary." Fleet carriers aren't necessary. Bug fixes aren't necessary. New ships aren't necessary. Mining updates aren't necessary. Nothing about this game is necessary. Just because something isn't necessary isn't a good reason to oppose it.

You say that you like manually plotting as a change of pace. But you could still do that even if this feature was improved. It wouldn't prevent you from doing that.

If you're worried about the opportunity cost, this suggestion is a very, very simple one relatively speaking. The opportunity cost for implementing this should be lower than almost any other change you can think of. If you think this is a zero-sum situation and that if anyone else's suggestion being implemented would take away from your suggestions being implemented, then at least be honest and say that. But this feature is just a minor extension of an existing feature. I bet if fdev gave me an un-paid part-time remote internship I could do it myself. The opportunity cost of such a tiny suggestion as this is so small that it wouldn't affect whether any larger changes could be done. I.e. the implementation of this change would not prevent any of your preferred ideas being implemented.

 

[Darkeyed]

Except you're wrong. You're simply, factually wrong. You even contradict yourself. You say "this would be a waste of fdevs time" but then you say "the tools you want already exist."

the tools exist to achieve what you want but they dont work the way you want them to ie fdev would have to waste time adding something that we already have a way to achieve just because your to lazy to make use of the provided tools. are you really that dim that you dont understand that just because there is one outcome that does not mean that their is only one path to that outcome.

 

[glaukos]

the tools exist to achieve what you want but they dont work the way you want them

Nope, wrong again. What I want is to not have to open up the galaxy map in between every jump to manual plot each jump one at a time. So no, there is no tool that will achieve what I want. That is why I am asking for one. Or more precisely I am asking for an improvement to an existing tool so that it will achieve what I want.

are you really that dim that you dont understand that just because there is one outcome that does not mean that their is only one path to that outcome.

Obviously I know that there is more than one way to reach a final state, which is exactly why I am asking for another way. How could you be so dim as to think that I don't realize there is more than one way to get somewhere when I am asking for another way? Just because a way exists to do something doesn't mean I can't ask for a better way. If no one was allowed to ever seek a better way, then nothing would ever be improved.

If you think it's a waste of time, then just simply say that. Stop making these ridiculous false claims that what I am asking for is already in the game because it simply isn't.

 

[Darkeyed]

If you think it's a waste of time, then just simply say that. Stop making these ridiculous false claims that what I am asking for is already in the game because it simply isn't.

you know what i'm sick of your holyer than thou attitude and that people that dont agree with you are troll so lets tear apart your op shall we.

All I'm asking for is the ability to limit the jump range as much as I want in the route plotter.

jump range does not affect your fuel efficiency the mass of your ship is what affects your fuel efficiency its why plotting a route in my combat ship it only takes 70 jumps to my mass cargo ship which has nearly double its jump range but needs 80+

What it does is calculate the route that uses the least fuel.

patially true but missing the large picture what it does it caculate the fastest route while remaining fuel efficient see what you don't grasp is that fuel consumption is a non linear formula. see you would get this if you stop and actually study the game when your in the map and you click on fastest routes the lines from coming off of the star show that thats a route you can take. when you click on efficacy those line change to reflect your currents ships fsd/mass calculation. now when you plot a route with this system its fuel efficient.... but do you want to know a little tiny secret.... you can skip jumps on the route by manually going in and targeting the star in the chain you want to jump to. ie you manually sacrifice your efficiency and cut out legs of the trip and it will not get rid of the routing that your first charted down. good pilots know when they can skip a jump on their efficiency route.
I was not lying when I said you already had the tools.

 

[glaukos]

jump range does not affect your fuel efficiency the mass of your ship is what affects your fuel efficiency its why plotting a route in my combat ship it only takes 70 jumps to my mass cargo ship which has nearly double its jump range but needs 80+

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said. This is completely off-topic and irrelevant. I have no idea why you would think this is a response to anything I said.

see what you don't grasp is that fuel consumption is a non linear formula.

I am well aware that fuel consumption is non-linear. There would be no reason for me to be asking to limit jump range if it was linear. Obviously. There would be no efficiency gained from doing shorter jumps if the formula was linear. Clearly, I do grasp that the formula is non-linear.

but do you want to know a little tiny secret.... you can skip jumps on the route by manually going in and targeting the star in the chain you want to jump to. ie you manually sacrifice your efficiency and cut out legs of the trip and it will not get rid of the routing that your first charted down.

Why didn't you just say this from the beginning instead of being a complete and total jackass to me? If this is true, then it is something actually useful that I was not aware of. It's still not as good as what I'm asking for, but it is a step better from having to re-target and re-orient the galaxy map every jump. Apparently fighting with you was the only way for me to get you to reveal this information, because you were determined to keep it a secret until I ed you off. I really don't understand the psychology of a person like you who would withhold information from someone, be a jerk to them, and then only reveal it once they get under your skin and make you mad. Very strange. I would think you would be more willing to share information before you're mad and less willing after you're mad. But hey, whatever works I guess. Personally I would just prefer everyone be nice and cooperative and share information from the beginning. But if I gotta expose you for the a-hole you are before getting useful information out of you, then I'll expose you.

 

[Darkeyed]

Why didn't you just say this from the beginning instead of being a complete and total jackass to me?

excuse me the only one that as been a jerk has been you your the one that calls anyone that disagrees with your a troll you need to take good hard look in the mirror. you didnt ask what what a ment you instantly labled me a troll as well as the others that disagreed you could have asked what we ment but you didnt. you doubled down and hopped on your little high horse. maybe if you dont know what a person means you should ask first instead of calling them a troll and writing them off completely.

I am well aware that fuel consumption is non-linear. There would be no reason for me to be asking to limit jump range if it was linear. Obviously. There would be no efficiency gained from doing shorter jumps if the formula was linear. Clearly, I do grasp that the formula is non-linear.

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said. This is completely off-topic and irrelevant. I have no idea why you would think this is a response to anything I said.

no you clearly arent aware you can claim you are but your whole first thread
"Unless you're in an empty trading ship, it's unlikely that you have enough unused cargo capacity to really move the needle much on jump range."
and
"What it does is calculate the route that uses the least fuel. "
ie you dont know how the system works and you thought fuel usage is off of jump range of the ship.
further more you not knowing how the fsd and fuel works is on topic and it show others that you have no clue what your asking and massively hurts any arguments you make. if you knew that fuel economy was off of ship mass and not fsd range. you would grasp the nonlinear nature of the math. and if you got that you would see that the practical solution to your problem (which your problem is that the economic jump routes are to long) is increasing the min range which would let you perfectly tailor your economic plotting while leaving your fast route free from tamper and still serving its purpose when needed. but you didn't get that and why you thought LOWERING the max jump range would be a good idea.
but this entire thread is pointless because in the long run the loss in cargo of attaching a fuel scoop is completely overshadowed by the increase in the number of trades per hour. IE SLAP A DAM SCOOP ON YOUR TRADE SHIP AN LEARN TO SPEED SCOOP

 

[Jmanis]

Straight forward; low hanging fruit; would bring value to some folks. I like it.

+1. I have no desire to adjust my range based on my cargo; if that's relevant, my auto-plots already do it. But being able to set a "Don't set a jump further than 10Ly" would be quite useful (economic routing doesn't cut it here, as it'll still bridge a 40Ly gap, if that's the only option)

 

[Shinji Ikari]

um you already have this tool

Which one?

 

[Darkeyed]

Which one?

go into your galaxy map flick onto economical route plot as your going along the path you can manually go in and selectively skip a jump on the path doing this will not delete your plotted route meaning if you feel that the fuel efficient route is meandering too much you can skip some of the shorts jumps and turn them into a long jump and the route will auto update to you new position.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

go into your galaxy map flick onto economical route plot as your going along the path you can manually go in and selectively skip a jump on the path doing this will not delete your plotted route meaning if you feel that the fuel efficient route is meandering too much you can skip some of the shorts jumps and turn them into a long jump and the route will auto update to you new position.

That's quite clunky AND not as efficient as computing the route with a restricted jump range.

 

[Jmanis]

go into your galaxy map flick onto economical route plot as your going along the path you can manually go in and selectively skip a jump on the path doing this will not delete your plotted route meaning if you feel that the fuel efficient route is meandering too much you can skip some of the shorts jumps and turn them into a long jump and the route will auto update to you new position.

That's not a range limiter. That'll still plot jumps up to max jump range.

One time I got stuck around 200Ly from with stuff all fuel left. Both plot methods had me run out of fuel 50-100Ly away. The only way I could get back to refuel was to plot a series of jumps no longer than a particular distance.

What i needed in that case was to plot a route where no jump was bigger than around 6Ly.

 

[Darkeyed]

That's not a range limiter. That'll still plot jumps up to max jump range.

One time I got stuck around 200Ly from with stuff all fuel left. Both plot methods had me run out of fuel 50-100Ly away. The only way I could get back to refuel was to plot a series of jumps no longer than a particular distance.

they dont want a range limiter what the op wanted was a way to plot and economcal route for the trade ship and not install a fuel scoop. also how did you get stuck with all fuel left? also it sounds like your need to work on your ships mass mangment/ add a fuelscope your to heavy.

to plot a series of jumps no longer than a particular distance.

which sounds like you have a problem with your ship or your route your trying to go to far honestly what were you hualing that required let me guess 100 jumps? btw you just shot the op in the foot by point by pointing out how economical does not actually plot the most fuel efficient route and that you were able to hand plot it better.

 

[Jmanis]

they dont want a range limiter what the op wanted was a way to plot and economcal route for the trade ship and not install a fuel scoop.

No, that's just your interpretation. They pretty explicitly say:

Why not just let us limit jump range as much as we want without being restricted to limiting it based on unused cargo capacity?

also how did you get stuck with all fuel left? also it sounds like your need to work on your ships mass mangment/ add a fuelscope your to heavy.

It was a scoopless run out to the Guardian ruins because <reasons>. The trip out used just over 60% of my fuel, and I forgot to refuel for the way back.

which sounds like you have a problem with your ship or your route your trying to go to far honestly what were you hualing that required let me guess 100 jumps?

20 jumps, when I realised I was critical fuel, and it was much quicker than traipsing back out to the ruins all over again.

Regardless of the fact that it was an error that got me to this point, limiting your jump range per-jump is a great way to exploit a distance further than you normally would be able to .. all the way to colonia in one case. (an activity ship transfers has spoiled us for)

 

[Darkeyed]

20 jumps, when I realised I was critical fuel, and it was much quicker than traipsing back out to the ruins all over again.

so you were exploring and not actually trading which this thread is about.

No, that's just your interpretation. They pretty explicitly say:

the thread is about a person running a trading ship they want to not take a fuel scoop but want to speed up economical plotting. IE fast uses up to much fuel and economy is to slow. they basicly want to be able to run out of fuel while coming in to dock. ie the current tools allow for them to manually speed up the slowest route. furthermore the selution to their problem is incressing the min jump range not decressing the max range. but this whole thing is pointless because running a fuel scoop is the fastest and honestly every ship except for combat ships should have a fuel scoop.

 

[Jmanis]

so you were exploring and not actually trading which this thread is about.

No it's not. It's a request for an adjustable max range plot option.

 

[Darkeyed]

No it's not. It's a request for an adjustable max range plot option.

sigh its about fuel... why would a combat ship worry about fuel you bus them to where the fight is not fly them. and explorer's have to have a fuel scoop the only ship that really has to worry about routing and fuel are traders and he is even talking about cargo space in the OP dont play dumb.

 

[Jmanis]

sigh its about fuel... why would a combat ship worry about fuel you bus them to where the fight is not fly them. and explorer's have to have a fuel scoop the only ship that really has to worry about routing and fuel are traders and he is even talking about cargo space in the OP dont play dumb.

lol... don't be dumb... cute. Only one person being dumb here mate...

Also, you think I was exploring. Funny...

 

[Darkeyed]

lol... don't be dumb... cute. Only one person being dumb here mate...

Also, you think I was exploring. Funny...

well you are the one that said you were going out to the ruins soo you were not running a trade route also before you try to call me dumb im gonna remind you that your the one that and to quote you here. you are the one that ran all the way out to ruins with out a scoop then forgot to refuel sooooo do you really want to try an throw that brick and im gonna guess if your not exploring its to gank people which again has nothing to do with the situation the op was discussing.

 

[Phongsalt]

I wasn't aware i'd made any 'allegations' that required 'backing up.'

 

[Morbad]

Because fuel consumption is non-linear, being able to manually and arbitrarily cap jump distance can be very useful.

The only mechanisms that allow automatic route plotting with a cap are:

• The use of 'efficient' routes, which simply takes the shortest possible distance jumps to the destination, has the worst granularity and usually results in vastly more jumps than optimal.
• Plotting a "fastest" route with a disabled Gaurdian FSD booster, then turning it on before making the jumps--being careful not to let the route be replotted--can be a bit better, but only allows for one setting, equal to the range of the booster used.
• Plotting a "fastest" route, with the cargo slider. This is a pretty good option, but only if your vessel can fit enough cargo capacity to make it useful, which is often not the case.

Personally, I think this is enough of an issue to warrant some improvements.

A relatively straightforward fix could simply be to change the cargo slider to an arbitrary ship mass slider for the route plotter to use. it could have a clearly demarcated line for the maximum potential mass of one's ship, so that it could be used just as the cargo slider currently is, but also be able to be dragged past that point, to any mass the FSD can move; thus allowing for more precise and virtually unlimited tuning of the maximum jump range used by the route plotter.

--TLDR--

Problem: I want to plot routes that use less significantly fuel per jump than "fastest", which can be completed in significantly fewer jumps than "economy", but cannot carry sufficient cargo racks.

Solution: Let me drag the cargo slider to any number I want, no matter the actual cargo capacity of my CMDR's ship.