List of combat loggers has reached 250 recorded loggers, with 322 total logs. Frontier, this is a problem

Ziggy Stardust · May 25, 2016

Ornee Shaula said:
FD caving into the mob and changing the rule and their official stance to support their ineptitude doesn't make combat logging an unsportsmanlike of a thing to do, no matter what all you average nonhazardous pilots say to the contrary or your quoting of FD's stance that says in reality, "We aren't going to grow balls we've got this far without them and we'll use kowtowing to the babies as a substitute", thats all good and fine, but the numbers are dropping there won't be as many new sales after the net upgrade, maybe 10 new players will stay in game and maybe buy a skin or 2, but the new direction is going to be grind to win, the attraction for me to Elite ws the ability to cross my RL piloting skills immediately to game and be a good player. My skills in strategy and the art of war crossed over so well we made you all cry and hide in solo apart from those who play in the true spirit of the title of the game, the Elite; Dangerous pilots that aren't cry babies who drop their cargo in their pants and log out at the first sign of an SDC pilot. Any single person that defends with FD's official stance is nothing more than a with disillusion attitudes formulated to cater to your lack of skill and spine

Salt harvesting in progress

I see why SDC likes this sort of stuff.

SirGirard · May 25, 2016

Rinzler o7o7o7 said:
Hello all, you may know me from Reddit (I rarely ever post here), where I co-moderate (removed link to combat logging subreddit) with CMDR Finegan (AA), CMDR Ant Solo (RSM), and CMDR Kryso.
This morning the subreddit reached 250 recorded combat loggers across both platforms (PC and Xbox), with a total of 322 logs (several repeat offenders). The list of combat loggers is stickied to the top of the subreddit.

Frontier, if you are reading this, I hope you realise that something is wrong with this game mechanic. Whether it can be blamed on the p2p architecture, the hilariously short logout timer, or the fact that the lax punishment encourages people to do it, the problem is real and it is getting worse.
Currently we as the moderators are working on a more detailed data entry system, which should provide an additional results page showing graphs for the scenario of logging, rank of logger, engagement terms (powerplay, CZ, piracy) etc. We hope that this will help make the problem more comprehensively understandable to all that look into it, whether it be players or Frontier staff.

You stated over a year ago that the issue of combat logging was being "looked into", yet you have left the community in the dark regarding your progress (if any) on the matter. Meanwhile the game is plagued with it. The more this becomes a problem among the community, the more the term "jump to SC" will gain a new meaning. And believe me, I do not want to see this game die to something as lame as this.

But it does not matter one jot if somebody logs? They ran away, fled the fray, left you on the field of battle as victor? What's the problem other than for a PvPer who is obsessed with ensuring their victim sees the Insurance option screen?

Shadowdancer · May 25, 2016

Commandr Sam said:
this problem has been in ED since day 1 of combat testing in Alpha with a very easy solution

I see you are one of the many professional developers of networked games on this forum. [knocked out]

Kyokushin · May 25, 2016

Ziggy Stardust said:
How is it unclear? Logging off via the ingame function = ok. It's perfectly logical.

If the issue is understanding of the players, don't be afraid to ask questions about it. I'd be happy to explain the difference

No, it is not logical, because in both cases a player is avoiding a rebuy by exiting a game.

In one hand FD told exiting a game is a bad thing, and in other hand they allowed to do that by 15 second delay by menu. And also 15 seconds delay is high wake.
So more efficient is exit/relog than playing game (high wake)... but wait... exiting a game to avoid a rebuy is a bad thing, right?. So this is a bad thing or not? Not by menu and yes by a cable? Seriously ?

This is a far from logic.

And now, a some people try to cover their double morality by the sentence 'the rules are allowing menu-exit'.

So again, exiting a game to avoid rebuy is good or bad thing? Heh - good by the gold menu-exit rule. I know.

And this the perfect example of double standards.

Stupid_hippy · May 25, 2016

Rinzler o7o7o7 said:
You're thinking of /r/EDCombatLoggers, where the moderator from IPC doxxed a logger.

I'm not thinking of anything. This is all google shows me.

After digging around and searching for user names I found your list.. and of your 250 loggers it appears 150 of them are menu logouts, something that is totally legal and accepted by FD.

Wether I agree with that personally or not,and I don't, you are naming and shaming people who are innocent in FDs eyes. That is wrong.

SirGirard · May 25, 2016

Soopyyy said:
No I'm not.
They're tipping the table so they don't lose. That's cheating. Just because Fdev don't want to call it cheating doesn't change the fact that it is.

But they did lose? They ran away leaving you victorious? What is this obsession with wanting your opponent to see the insurance option screen?

Ziggy Stardust · May 25, 2016

Kyokushin said:
No, it is not logical, because in both cases a player is avoiding a rebuy by exiting a game.

In one hand FD told exiting a game is a bad thing, and in othe hand they allowed to do that by 15 second delay. And also 15 seconds delay is high wake.
So more efficient is exit/relog than playing game (high wake)... but wait... exiting a game to avoid a rebuy is a bad thing.
This sounds like split personality, not logic.

Right, so at least we passed the hurdle that it is unclear. That's progress

FD never told anyone exiting the game is a bad thing. You just made that up.

Comrade Error · May 25, 2016

Stupid_hippy said:
I'm not thinking of anything. This is all google shows me.

After digging around and searching for user names I found your list.. and of your 250 loggers it appears 150 of them are menu logouts, something that is totally legal and accepted by FD.

Wether I agree with that personally or not,and I don't, you are naming and shaming people who are innocent in FDs eyes. That is wrong.

Not anymore wrong than if somebody chose to make a list of known pirates.

And really, it's only shaming if you think it is or the poster explicitly said shamed the person logging.

What is and isn't shameful is subjective. If you are perfectly ok with logging to menu and the post is neutral on the matter then it ain't shameful.

Vasious · May 25, 2016

Soopyyy said:
Only semantically.
You're still quitting out of any consequence of playing the game. It's up there with flipping the chess board so that you don't technically lose the game.

Flipping the board is against the rules of chess thought, so at the moment it is not like that.

Boomer Kay · May 25, 2016

Ziggy Stardust said:
FD never told anyone exiting the game is a bad thing. You just made that up.

In any competitive environment, leaving the ring is a sign of defeat.
I posted this confirmed "combat logger" before:
[video=youtube;_ccfbTG9im0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ccfbTG9im0[/video]

But hey, this is the internet, let's go all emotionally damaged.

Yaffle · May 25, 2016

Error said:
Not anymore wrong than if somebody chose to make a list of known pirates.

For the avoidance of doubt if such a list were posted here it too would be naming and shaming.

Please don't post your lists of people who may have annoyed you on this forum. Speaking of lists...

[video=youtube;bhY-Y0I8DkY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhY-Y0I8DkY[/video]

-NAiT- · May 25, 2016

There is more to this game than just combat!

Ziggy Stardust · May 25, 2016

Boomer Kay said:
In any competitive environment, leaving the ring is a sign of defeat.

But hey, this is the internet, let's go all emotionally damaged.

Sign of defeat, fair enough. If anyone exits the game through the menu mid-fight, I think we can all agree that he lost that fight.

noodle · May 25, 2016

SirGirard said:
But they did lose? They ran away leaving you victorious? What is this obsession with wanting your opponent to see the insurance option screen?

Oh good. I was wondering that myself. Thought I must be missing something.

Commandr Sam · May 25, 2016

Shadowdancer said:
I see you are one of the many professional developers of networked games on this forum. [knocked out]

Actually yes, I am a developer, just not in the gaming industry.

My point remains it is an easy fix. What I really don't understand is the hostility against fixing something which is a clear exploit.

Stupid_hippy · May 25, 2016

Error said:
Not anymore wrong than if somebody chose to make a list of known pirates.

And really, it's only shaming if you think it is or the poster explicitly said shamed the person logging.

What is and isn't shameful is subjective. If you are perfectly ok with logging to menu and the post is neutral on the matter then it ain't shameful.

Yep, posting anything you like on reddit is fine.. other than home addresses of course. But we aren't on reddit, we are on FD's forums and follow their rules.

EDIT: Ninja'd by the mod

Comrade Error · May 25, 2016

Yaffle said:
For the avoidance of doubt if such a list were posted here it too would be naming and shaming.

Please don't post your lists of people who may have annoyed you on this forum. Speaking of lists...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhY-Y0I8DkY

Yes that's on the forum though not on reddit.

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Stupid_hippy said:
Yep, posting anything you like on reddit is fine.. other than home addresses of course,but we aren't on reddit, we are on FD's forums and follow their rules.

But.. the list is on Reddit? We were talking about how it ain't shaming on Reddit.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Ziggy Stardust said:
Sign of defeat, fair enough. If anyone exits the game through the menu mid-fight, I think we can all agree that he lost that fight.

Won fights don't fill my cargo hold.

Kyokushin · May 25, 2016

Ziggy Stardust said:
Right, so at least we passed the hurdle that it is unclear. That's progress

FD never told anyone exiting the game is a bad thing.

And what you expect, they will tell a closing a game is bad? They should require from players 24/7/365 online? Maybe with 99.999999% ?

To be more precise and get more progress, they wrote their statement about closing the game in a avoid destruction purpose. They was pretty clear. You can find it if You like.

Boomer Kay · May 25, 2016

Ziggy Stardust said:
Sign of defeat, fair enough. If anyone exits the game through the menu mid-fight, I think we can all agree that he lost that fight.

He lost the fight ireregardless.

Of course someone repeatedly pulling the plug is doing so with the intention of disrupting other player's gameplay (I reserve myself the right to read that from between the lines of "the social contract"), so a shadowban is warranted.

Too bad the OP and 3/4 of his associates would qualify for that sort of punishment as well.

znôrt · May 25, 2016

Ian Phillips said:
This would rather seem to be a 'problem' of perception.

1) it is something that only occurs in one of the game modes.

nope, people do it in all modes.

Ian Phillips said:
2) it is something that within that game mode only occurs with specific play situations.

to avoid ship destruction. it's not really that specific.

Ian Phillips said:
3) 1.4 million game units sold according to the last figures we have access to. With an average of 60 hours per player = 84 million player hours. And you have 300 occurances logged? Doesn't seem to be that big a problem when looked at in the light of that analysis.

analysis? you must be kidding ...

the ICS reports about 7 child molesting victims a day in 2015. that's about 2500 a year. out of a world population of 7.000.000.000 how can anybody say child molesting is hardly a problem at all? spot the nonsense?

only about 1-2% of those sales are active players (starting to believe those figures are totally made up myself btw). these 300 log entries are only loggers who 1) did it in open, 2) were spotted, 3) someone bothered enough to list them on a specific reddit i didn't even knew existed until now. i would expect the real number of loggers to be much, much higher.