Might as well not happen at all though. Twice is nothing. And I'll guess submit and run probably works fine.
Make Solo Powerplay PvE dangerous (targeted interdcitions using existing mechanics)
- Thread starter Rubbernuke
- Start date
It's there, still warns you, but I defected (shopping, sorry!) and spent 100% of my time in hostile territory and didn't get harassed at all.
I felt like leaving a TripAdvisor five star review "Relaxing break, would visit again".
Interesting. I've never had this, but if its possible then that is a step in the right direction.
Unless FD fixed it, the defection police in SC do not have interdictors. People shopping have had them loop around unable to do anything, and even then, surely a defector should be chased by actually scary hunters- and not timid rank and file ships?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Change NPCs and what is "different" for a short time will become "identical" after a period of acclimatisation.
.... or possibly to deal with unlawful PvP players who prey on clean PvE players.
@Robert Maynard and others, it seems that your argument seems to be that all content in this game needs to cater to the lowest common denominator. There is no successful game that follows this idea. There needs to be a dynamic range in difficulty, which Elite has to some degree. You have everything from a harmless ranked assassination mission to Medusa Thargoids, which is cool but why not have powerplay be the "end game" type of content that doesn't require special weapons that we've been craving for years? I'm drooling over here imagine high paying powerplay cargo missions that would require either an extremely well built Cutter or a T9 with an escort of players in combat ships.
I really don't understand the backlash to Rubbernukes idea here.
He's not suggesting that all NPCs need to suddenly become absurdly difficult. The harmless assassination missions and low CZ's
I really don't understand the backlash to Rubbernukes idea here.
He's not suggesting that all NPCs need to suddenly become absurdly difficult. The harmless assassination missions and low CZ's
actually PVE leads to ATR spawn much faster than any PVP for obvious reasons (for exampel as players can be part of a faction ingame).
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Not really - it's that the content in question was added to the game over five years ago for all players to enjoy - and some players have been trying to either have it PvP-gated or increased in difficulty to suit their preference for years - with little or no regard for those who would be affected by the proposed changes.
as far as i have read, that's a bit of misinterpretation.
i read robert
a) speaking out against the idea of difficulty being bound to engineering.
and
b) against the idea, that you can't "do the whole of powerplay" (rank 5) without getting that challenge.
and
c) thargoids are in some places, you can go there or not, and you can attack them or not.
they even give you a chance to drop what they otherwise might kill you in those places.
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that's why i suggested farther above, that the same could be achieved if rank activities were bound with using increasing less capable ships. so at rank 5 you fly one of mahons Adders.
a npc which is no problem to escape in an engineered t6 and no problem to be shot down in an engineered AspE, gets a serious problem in an unengineered python to some extend (you might not be able to ourun it). or in an eagle.
that said, i personally think powerplay was pitched as a competitive and tuned-up "power"-play. that's gone with engineering as generally danger is gone without self-inflicted challenge. the major danger in ED is afk and docking.
self-inflicted/-chosen challenge is great, but not really in a competitive sorrounding (even if the board game of go is very good in that with its rank "malus").
i have no solution to it, but my immediate reaction to the suggestion is: if that would be the case, people would find ways to avoid risk in powerplay even more, not getting into powerplay more.
why i think so? look at the community goals including "pirating" in the most lawfull way ....interrupting human traficking to find palin. good challenge. serious reason to cooperate. never a lore-based, high-reward, lore-wise onesided CG with less participants. people preferred to go for USS 500lly out of the bubble (spawning for occupied escape pods back then).
same would happen in powerplay if such a suggestion would come through. people would probably use their FCs to minimise interdiction on the 4mm distance to the station, and almost nobody not having a FC would take part.
but this is, just, my opinion.
i know all arguments against open-mode powerplay, the major being non-subscription xbox/playbox can't take part. but for the idea of a risky power-play it would be the only solution imho. AND it would make powerplay for commanders in unengineered ships completely gated. one can want that, or not.
And your point is...? People learn and adapt and play against actually threatening NPCs.
ATR are not a gank shield, they are a PvE pressure valve. But in any case, if Powerplay enemies scaled it would be one up on system security which really do not.
Are you even reading the proposal? Do you understand that Powerplay has a giant hole in its NPCs and mechanics that "content in question was added to the game over five years ago" also covers things like CZs that have been massively updated with harder enemies? Not to mention fixing a half baked feature that was introduced with massive flaws?
Were base players consulted over CZ changes? No they were not.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The point is the change will become the new normal - just a little different from the old normal - just as identical after a while.
Which is a hollow statement- its saying don't change because people will get used to it. Well, I'd rather have a feature that stretches my engineered ships (validating all that time I spent making them) and a feature that scales to my ability. Right now the feature does nothing outside conflict zones- there is no feeling of being part of something or realising you might be in over your head. Surely that needs to change?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The proposal opens with "While Open has other players with powerful ships, solo has no NPCs actively pushing back.". Player opposition is opt-in in this game, therefore the challenge posed by players is also opt-in. That's why the proposal is viewed as a fall-back position, i.e. "if players can't be forced to play among those who want to attack them (Open only) - make the game more difficult for them". I've already acknowledged that some increase in the challenge posed by Powerplay NPCs would seem to be needed - the question is to what level and by what means.
While base game players were not consulted, I doubt that the game analytics relating to base game players were ignored. As mentioned by another some CZs are still viable in unengineered ships.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Not hollow at all - and some players would get used to it - and others would likely drop the feature due to it no longer being "fun" for them. Whatever the level of changes, they still would not be enough for some players.
We can't all have what we want - as we don't all want the same things. While we may want features that scale to our ability, we don't all have the same ability - so personal scaling would be the only reasonable way forward.
Some time ago Sandro talked about some means of "pausing" ones Powerplay pledge - so that one would not be bothered with Powerplay unless actively engaged in it - it seemed, from memory, to be quite a popular idea - and quite opposed to the proposal here.
1. a CZ is a place you choose to go. there are other options to win a war if you don't want to that.
2. while CZ ships got upped in terms of hitpoints, none feature engineering, besides the targets of CZ objetives (spec ops wing, enemy captain). CZ objective targets don't even count for CZ missions, so enganging them is very optional. and objective is worth ~4 shipkills.
the exampel "but CZ ships where upped" is just not very good.
your suggestion is upping/introducing NPC, who should interdict players while doing powerplay, with increasing engineering by players powerplay rank.
again - the situation would be very different, if you'd suggest having people flying non-engineered adders, eagles and sidey at rank 5.
that would not gate rank 5 powerplay to horizon running commanders. it would certainly make things harder in all modes. and it would make most, if not all npc for all powerplayers in all modes more challenging.
as for ATR - yes, that is a good exampel. ATR in fact gate pve murdering BGS gameplay to people running engineered ships. still - you can of course leave the controlling factions space. and you can choose other means for similar or even more effect when influencing the BGS than a murder spree. i see no such suggestion in yours.
probably as you suspect as i do, that if your suggestion would include a way to bypass those "special agaents", most players would do it.
actually parts of it where included in an update. if you don't do powerplay at the moment (for exampel having leaflets in your hold), powerplay NPC won't attack you. i assume the suggestion here followed the same.
So you are saying that, NPC opposition is optional because player opposition is optional? Am I reading you right?
For anyone whop actually plays or knows Powerplay (and how I explained it here):
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Powerplay is split into two distinct phases: a collection phase and delivery phase- combat powers destroy specific ships and hauling powers collect specific cargo.
The delivery phase (i.e. traveling about) poses no NPC threat- which means near 100% efficiency and a predictable outcome.
While Open has other players with powerful ships, solo has no NPCs actively pushing back. Interdictions are currently mild, and drop zones around stations are so small no rival Power NPC can approach or attack.
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Powerplay needs opposition- it needs its PvE layer to work otherwise its empty in solo, and potentially empty in open and PG as well. Players will not always be around, so NPCs have to make up for that, and since 50% (or more soon with EDO) have engineering it makes sense to build a system that scales up rather than cap it to a level that leads to people becoming bored (since most players cannot be challenged by weak NPCs).
But they were made much harder- which means there is no reason to hold Powerplay back with the same.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
No.