Management Matters

I agree, the gardener can water flowers and weed weeds. To get idea: Sims 2.
It is harder to do the lawn now I understand that, but at least the gardening bit should be doable. Yes, the gardener would need to do quite a lot of acrobatics to reach hard to reach places.. Or maybe it is bad ideas.. floating islands, cliff nook and cranny, even up buildings... haha

Damn I am starting to see problems now too. ;)
 
Hopefully there will more management ideas later down the line. I am disappointed too, but with Parkitect that seems to be there main focus.

Also I think Frontier have decided to get the smoothest experience for both park designers and more management based gamers as well as a lot of new comers to the genre. With the base game. We have to remember that there are loads of people never played a Theme Park simulator just look at the difficulty's faced by some of the kickstarter RPG's making them attractive and welcoming to younger gamers and newcomers. In a lot respects I don't blame them.
 
Parkitect is less immersive than Planet Coaster so things that can't be done in Planet Coaster can be done in Parkitect but in a vastly simpler form. Parkitect is no where near Planet Coaster in Graphics or anything else. It is like trying to compare a fly (Parkitect) to a Lion (Planet Coaster), it just can't be done.
 
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Parkitect is less immersive than Planet Coaster so things that can't be done in Planet Coaster can be done in Parkitect but in a vastly simpler form. Parkitect is no where near Planet Coaster in Graphics or anything else. It is like trying to compare a fly (Parkitect) to a Lion (Planet Coaster), it just can't be done.

I agree 100% as it won't have the mainstream appeal of PC. It has some need idea's like stock supply etc. I bought it just to support the developers of it, I may or may not play it long term.
 
Parkitect is less immersive than Planet Coaster so things that can't be done in Planet Coaster can be done in Parkitect but in a vastly simpler form. Parkitect is no where near Planet Coaster in Graphics or anything else. It is like trying to compare a fly (Parkitect) to a Lion (Planet Coaster), it just can't be done.

I have the same problem with Parkitect. I can´t immers myself in it and get that sort of connection with my park, mainly due to graphics. I don´t digg the art-stiyle they went with. If they wanted to stick with old RCT games, they still could do it with better and more detailed art-style. It is still great game though,
 
I'm bummed to see security guards were tossed. I thought the animation they showed looked fun.
I know it's still dwelling on the past, but even having broken benches, trash cans, and lamps, which effected park rating and peep happiness was a nice layer. It's no harder to replace those items now than it was in the past.

Even going back to the watering of flowers, and grass cutting. I know grass cutting isn't feasible now.
But I would have loved to have a gardener, with a big floppy straw hat, with a comically large watering can.
I would love to see a certain set of scenery flowers wither and brown, requiring water. The more flowers you plant, the more gardeners you would need, increasing expenses. Dying flowers would lower your park rating, and lower peep happiness.

While I am not tied to everything being "just like" the old games, I do question what "simulation evolved" means.
It seems to mean that the focus has shifted away from staff, with them being smarter and more autonomous, to now focusing on the peeps and how they react to what we do to the park.

I can't wait for the beta, and I still love what we have now.

I'm also dissaappointed that we have had no indication of there being water surface rides. Swan boats, paddle boats, jet skis, canoes, etc. I was so excited to see the Steamboat, until I realized it was just scenery. It seems water has just become decorative, and no longer a valuable park asset. Why have water if it can't be recreational?

All of this is what I was expecting too. There just is no management. Hitting a few buttons cause you have to get them from level 1 to level 3 is not the same as actually managing their training and their rolls and efficiency. This really has deflated me and the more I think about it the less I am looking forward to this now. A lot of us are playing the game because we wanted to truly manage a park and be that manager that we know we can't be in real life.

This seems to be ignored though and almost like it's just an afterthought of what does management mean and what do players that enjoy management.
 
All of this is what I was expecting too. There just is no management. Hitting a few buttons cause you have to get them from level 1 to level 3 is not the same as actually managing their training and their rolls and efficiency. This really has deflated me and the more I think about it the less I am looking forward to this now. A lot of us are playing the game because we wanted to truly manage a park and be that manager that we know we can't be in real life.

This seems to be ignored though and almost like it's just an afterthought of what does management mean and what do players that enjoy management.

I understand your disappointment, we should wait to see what Frontier have up their sleeves before writing off the management side completely though - the blog post alludes to more details to be revealed. Also if we're being optimist hopefully the game will be popular and allow for continued development and support, which could hopefully be more focussed on the management side of things.
 
Well, I would say, just be a bit patient, and wait for the dev diaries and the livestreams - only some days, and in less than 2 weeks is the beta.
Maybe there is not that much to complain about then...
 
^ What do you mean by ride sequences? Operations? Music?

'Operations', if you mean the ride movements. A rides 'operation' to me is how a parks staff or ride team manage the running of an individual ride, how quick restraints are checked, how they're checked etc.

Programming some flat rides sequences to best match your guests needs, as discussed in the discussion below - which includes a video from PC [squeeeeee]

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/9181-Programmable-Flat-Rides
 
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Has there been any mention of transfer tracks/switch tracks? I do vaguely remember hearing about them, but I never have heard a follow up. I think a double loading station or a storage track section would look awesome, and make the line move quickly.
 
All of this is what I was expecting too. There just is no management. Hitting a few buttons cause you have to get them from level 1 to level 3 is not the same as actually managing their training and their rolls and efficiency. This really has deflated me and the more I think about it the less I am looking forward to this now. A lot of us are playing the game because we wanted to truly manage a park and be that manager that we know we can't be in real life.

This seems to be ignored though and almost like it's just an afterthought of what does management mean and what do players that enjoy management.

I'm on the exact same page as you, but let's not get all doom and gloom yet. They can still unveil stuff during the dev streams.
 
Yeah, I really hope that a lot more is to be reveal and I try to be confident... but I can't hide that I begin to loose faith about interesting new management ideas.

Simulation evolved seems to be "guests brain" a lot more than innovative management part. I would be really sad if it's really the case...
 
Good to know about security guards not making the cut before people got hopes of them being there.

If i have to be frank, security guards have ALWAYS been the less interesting staff from a gameplay and visual standpoint in not only RCT 1 to 3, but also games like theme park series.
Vandals never really existed in these games, it was just something behind the scenes, you get too many people in the park and things start to be broken, there were not individual guests that broke those things, only an illusion of them being there. When you see this brake things, you just plop a security guard and they went they merry way going through the zone you indicated and think never broke where they walk.
You would never see a scurity guard throwing a guest out of the park or anything similar. They just walked. And I can tell you, security parks is not something you actually see in daylight at real theme parks. They mostly use cameras and people under cover (and real security staff was inside of a building monitoring this cameras), not actual security guards dressed walking through a park.

I understand that when Frontier came to the game design of them (and it was a sure thing at first glance becuase, of course they were in the older games), lots of questions starting popping up from a gameplay standpoint that couldn't be resolved as easy as it seems (creating games is resolving problems of things you start to add, "does it work on every way possible and if working is it fun?" is the mantra of game designers). Do they work like in old RCT games? In the much more creative game that is Planet Coaster, invisible vandals breaking lights and benches is not fun, is not as easy to change this super decorative things now as it was in RCT once they were broken. Then how can we make them more interesting and fun to play?
They probably tried a lot of new implementatios and nothing seem to work well for them, so the best thing was axed them for the time being, who knows, maybe they find something that works much better in the future (this happens a lot during development and a good time sleep).

Maybe they already tried this, but here is an idea for the future.
Instead of vandals breaking things or them being "invisible" they are actual people that start entering your park after you have a cosiderable amount of them.
This "vandals" wil distract entertainers and other guests, and entertainers and guests will start asking for security.
Security staff then comes handy to protect this conflict zones, if security catches this vandal distracting people, it automatically boots him out of the park and guests and entertainers are happier. Vandals will reapear in your park if you have a big amount of people coming in again and displease in queues, not founding food stalls or restrooms, or too little rides for the amount of people starts becoming rampant.
Or something like that. Of course, Im sure they already thought of something similar but you never know.

Would love for them to return in the future better implemented, of course, but its not something Im going to cry about.

EDIT: I actually think they were vandals hitting mascots in the original Theme Park.

Good post. I'll have to say I'm a bit disappointed that the guards didn't make the cut for release. I blame the video a few months ago where the guard tasered a janitor. I knew that was a render but it just had that delightful charm that we've grown to love with Planet Coaster. But compared to the mess of another game (that will remain...nameless) a loss of a security guard is pittance. Here's to hoping the guards make their debut in a future expansion/update!!!

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I'm bummed to see security guards were tossed. I thought the animation they showed looked fun.
I know it's still dwelling on the past, but even having broken benches, trash cans, and lamps, which effected park rating and peep happiness was a nice layer. It's no harder to replace those items now than it was in the past.

Even going back to the watering of flowers, and grass cutting. I know grass cutting isn't feasible now.
But I would have loved to have a gardener, with a big floppy straw hat, with a comically large watering can.
I would love to see a certain set of scenery flowers wither and brown, requiring water. The more flowers you plant, the more gardeners you would need, increasing expenses. Dying flowers would lower your park rating, and lower peep happiness.

While I am not tied to everything being "just like" the old games, I do question what "simulation evolved" means.
It seems to mean that the focus has shifted away from staff, with them being smarter and more autonomous, to now focusing on the peeps and how they react to what we do to the park.

I can't wait for the beta, and I still love what we have now.

I'm also dissaappointed that we have had no indication of there being water surface rides. Swan boats, paddle boats, jet skis, canoes, etc. I was so excited to see the Steamboat, until I realized it was just scenery. It seems water has just become decorative, and no longer a valuable park asset. Why have water if it can't be recreational?

Same here Bitter. From the start the game has been a creator's paradise. If I had the creative spirit I probably would enjoy it much more than I already have. The simulation/managing aspect is what I've been waiting on. I'm withholding judgement and bias of things that have yet to come to light but the proof will be in the pudding if you'll pardon the expression. For players who like to create I have to say Frontier not only hit a home run but a grand slam knocking the ball out of the park with the bases loaded. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that for players, like myself, who like the simulation/management aspect that we get the same swing at the bat. It would be very disappointing, to me, if Frontier just hit a single or double on this aspect of the game (sorry for all the baseball analogies).
 
Yeah, I really hope that a lot more is to be reveal and I try to be confident... but I can't hide that I begin to loose faith about interesting new management ideas.

Simulation evolved seems to be "guests brain" a lot more than innovative management part. I would be really sad if it's really the case...

I'm not at all confident. But don't know yet. Might not know until november 9th. Only 1.5 more weeks!
 
Same here Bitter. From the start the game has been a creator's paradise. If I had the creative spirit I probably would enjoy it much more than I already have. The simulation/managing aspect is what I've been waiting on. I'm withholding judgement and bias of things that have yet to come to light but the proof will be in the pudding if you'll pardon the expression. For players who like to create I have to say Frontier not only hit a home run but a grand slam knocking the ball out of the park with the bases loaded. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that for players, like myself, who like the simulation/management aspect that we get the same swing at the bat. It would be very disappointing, to me, if Frontier just hit a single or double on this aspect of the game (sorry for all the baseball analogies).

Go Indians!!!

Oh, anyway...Yeah. I'm in between most of you. I don't need as much management as some of you want. I run a business. I do plenty of management. LOL It's not fun. [wink] On the flip side, my business also relies on creativity, and tedious highly detailed work. So, I have a hard time getting into the tedious building in game, because I do that already all day long. So, I am a middling. I love having the workshop, and being able to use the great things everyone creates and shares. I do want some depth to management, but not too much. I am looking for a fun, casual escape. It still seems, at this point, that there is less management, or less things to watch and take care of than previous games. I can see how those of you who want MORE management are concerned.

I enjoyed Prison Architect. It's pretty heavy on management, and it is a fairly fast paced game. It has a smaller creative angle, and it's not beautiful, or scenic (not that it needs to be). Same with Factorio. City Skylines has a little more of the scenic details, but is still mostly a management game. PlanCO really seams gear towards creation, and peep pleasing.

Again, I'm not knocking PlanCo. I'm still having fun. I can't wait for the next update. I can't wait to see what is really instore for us after all this speculation.
The game even right now is worlds more fun than that other RCT game.
 
I'm bummed to see security guards were tossed. I thought the animation they showed looked fun.
I know it's still dwelling on the past, but even having broken benches, trash cans, and lamps, which effected park rating and peep happiness was a nice layer. It's no harder to replace those items now than it was in the past.

It actually is, by A LOT.
Lights are completely out of question, in old games they were simple light posts in the paths, now they are actual lights inside and in the facades of buildings, some of them super hard to click on them after they are put becuase of hit boxes. Then lightposts in the game are mainly done by hand, because right now we only have a modern one (and a western one coming) and we basically create a "building" to make our own.
Benches and bins are easier, but lots of creative people are putting them inside own created benches so they are decorative, unique and usable by guests, making them unclickable and hard to replace if they are broken inside this handmade structures, so breaking things is not feasible in this game.
And then theres the problem is that this things were broken by invisible guests in the old games, im sure Frontier, if they decided to brake things, would want them to be broken by real guests (seems important to them as you can see in the dev diaries that every guests is a real person in the game, with real money in the pocket and real opinions), and most of the lights are now out of paths for example.

Thast why, if security and vandalism is introduced in the future, I think the best idea is that vandals affect mascots and guests, not scenery around the park. Mascots and guests start to be unhappy, and thats why you need security for them. For example, a vandal gets near a mascot an kicks him in the knee, if you have a security near this cene he will get this vandal and trhow him down of the park, if not he will go and kick another mascot and unhappines in your staff will begin to grow.
 
Ideally something which is as beautiful as it is fun to play is what i think most of us want. That middleground is where everyone is happy, i think. The perfect balance.

Right now the game is astonishingly beautiful, and we've not seen any game play at all. That is why i'm worried, but i'm still trusting that everything will be delivered to a high standard like every previous stage has been.

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Thast why, if security and vandalism is introduced in the future, I think the best idea is that vandals affect mascots and guests, not scenery around the park. Mascots and guests start to be unhappy, and thats why you need security for them. For example, a vandal gets near a mascot an kicks him in the knee, if you have a security near this cene he will get this vandal and trhow him down of the park, if not he will go and kick another mascot and unhappines in your staff will begin to grow.

Litter Dropping
Queue Skipping
They should be there in case of a coaster crash
Collect money from facilities (makes staff happier and feeling safer)
If phones are in the game, a guest could use one on a ride and the ride op could have the ejected from the park
Bag check station
Crowd control
Help with directions for lost guests

There is not a lack of tasks for security to do. Some of the listed above might be difficult or unfeasible, but i'm sure at least 4 or 5 would be possible without too many new assets being created. (Meaning they would have the most varied work of any of the staff in game).
 
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SPRidley, I think the vandalism to lamps would only occur to the dedicated in game lamp posts. It would be items coded to be broken, so the user created lamps wouldn't be effected. But this brings up a good point, that the user could circumvent that entire event from occurring anyway. Trash cans and benches though, are the "same" as before, and just as easy to place as before. So I see your point, but it's not that lamp posts are completely out of the question. It's that we really don't even have to use the actual dedicated game item at all.

This touches on an unrelated question though. In the past peeps knew if your park was dark, and we pretty much only had in game lamp posts. If this is something that carries over to this game, would the peeps only recognize "lamp posts" or would they recognize any light that is lighting the path? I too have created my own path lighting. So this is something I am curious about.
 
This touches on an unrelated question though. In the past peeps knew if your park was dark, and we pretty much only had in game lamp posts. If this is something that carries over to this game, would the peeps only recognize "lamp posts" or would they recognize any light that is lighting the path? I too have created my own path lighting. So this is something I am curious about.

I expect this is related to how expensive it is to check what scenery items are nearby a path. If it is cheap then it would be feasible to check the number of nearby light emitting scenery (much in the same way the total number of nearby scenery items are checked to influence "This park looks great" type thoughts.

Having said that, if it is cheap why is queue scenery only rated by what is next to the ticketbooth, rather than along the entire queue line. Maybe that was a way of limiting the test, or maybe it's not possible to recalculate new values for every piece of near path every time a new scenery item is placed.
 
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