As a general rule, I can see Mass Manager becoming the predominant mod. Weight reduction has many other benefits besides jump range, whereas Deep Charge only affects jump range.
Mass Manager vs Deep Charge
- Thread starter JonathanBurnage
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As a general rule, I can see Mass Manager becoming the predominant mod. Weight reduction has many other benefits besides jump range, whereas Deep Charge only affects jump range.
Thinking on this, I agree that Deep Charge should probably have a larger fuel consumption increase. The fact that it uses more fuel AND more power draw on the power plant, means that it has enough built-in drawbacks that using it should be a choice that you have to put some thought into, instead of just a clear case of one being superior to the other depending on FSD size.
If they altered it such that Deep Charge nearly always gives you more range than Mass Manager (just to varying degrees depending on FSD size), then the choice would come down to how much time you want to spend scooping, how much power you need to budget on the power plant, and how many jumps you want to be able to get out of a single tank of fuel.
That would indeed be an interesting compromise; fast travel vs absolute range.
That is interesting, because 1.1^(1/2.45) = 1.0397, so by the calculations mass manager should have a tiny advantage. However, reality says otherwise, so there must be something unaccounted for.
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You can solve it directly:
1.04 = 1.1^(1/p)
log(1.04) = log(1.1)*1/p
p = log(1.1)/log(1.04) = 2.43
Which agrees.
1.04 = 1.1^(1/p)
log(1.04) = log(1.1)*1/p
p = log(1.1)/log(1.04) = 2.43
Which agrees.
Good thinking there. It seems the constants were derived empirically, so perhaps there was some error. Although they are nice round numbers. Nevertheless, I cannot fault your logic
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...space fuel equation documented/Seamus_Donohue
Is anyone of you forwarding these fine thoughts to FD?
Good thinking there. It seems the constants were derived empirically, so perhaps there was some error. Although they are nice round numbers. Nevertheless, I cannot fault your logic
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...space fuel equation documented/Seamus_Donohue
I like logarithms. People are much less aware of them than they were in the days of slide rules and log tables but they are still an important tool.
I just tested this in the beta and the results seem to follow the equations precisely with the given P values (Coriolis also gives a result within 0.01LY difference). Mass Manager still gives me more range than Deep Charge:
DBX Mass Manager (61.42LY):
It would be worth seeing how Mengy managed to get Deep Charge to exceed Mass Manager on the DBX. So far the Hyperspace formula has been very precise for my ships including the Beta...but perhaps there is something else at play here that isn't on my ship:
https://eddp.co/u/dECWCVVL
EDIT: Oh, another important consideration. The maximum jump range is quite a bit different between the two results since 5.5T of fuel is needed in the fuel tank for Deep Charge vs 5.0T Mass Manager.
EDIT2: I think then when considering maximum jump range the formula would be something like:
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That's interesting, but my FSD's are still to both 56% and 50%, before the blueprints were improved to go to 61.2%. Let me log into the beta and verify it...
Okay, here is my Asp X, first pic with the maxed 5A Mass Manager making 56.63lys on a full tank, and the second pic with the maxed 5A Deep Charge making 56.68lys range on full tank, for a positive gain of 0.05lys in favor of the Deep Charge:
Looks like the beta 2 update took both of my maxed FSD drives up to the new max automatically, cool.
Still not sure why the math says the Mass Manager should be better but the outfitting screen is saying the Deep Charge does a bit better...
On my DBX, she gets 61.28lys with the Deep Charge and 61.22lys with the Mass Manager, so an extra 0.06lys with Deep Charge for my DBX after Beta 2.
Okay, here is my Asp X, first pic with the maxed 5A Mass Manager making 56.63lys on a full tank, and the second pic with the maxed 5A Deep Charge making 56.68lys range on full tank, for a positive gain of 0.05lys in favor of the Deep Charge:
Looks like the beta 2 update took both of my maxed FSD drives up to the new max automatically, cool.
Still not sure why the math says the Mass Manager should be better but the outfitting screen is saying the Deep Charge does a bit better...
On my DBX, she gets 61.28lys with the Deep Charge and 61.22lys with the Mass Manager, so an extra 0.06lys with Deep Charge for my DBX after Beta 2.
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Thanks Mengy for posting this info!
It looks like your first FSD hasn't quite reached the maximum Optimal Mass roll (1690.5 vs my 1692.5), but your second one has or is closer to it.
The formula needs the Optimal Mass's to be the same before applying the either the "Mass Manager" or "Deep Charge" effect to do a direct comparison. I had a look through coriolis and it looks like 2.0T difference will account for around a 0.06LY; although it looks like your second FSD is even closer to the maximum than my own drive, so it should be slightly more than 0.06LY difference.
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Maybe there is a bug in the beta and it’s not maxing out drives equally? I’m assuming you both rolled your drives until it wouldn’t let you anymore. Or maybe it looked finished but there was a tiny bit of the circle unfilled - so small it wasn’t visible. I haven’t played the beta myself (Xbox) so I don’t know how clear it is when you’ve maxed something out.
Baqar79 - I’m using an app on my iPhone to type in the equations, then posting them as pictures. I see you’ve already found a similar solution
Your equation above is correct - the mass parameter in the hyperspace fuel equation includes the fuel needed for the jump, so all other things being equal, your DBX with deep charge will be 0.5T heavier than the same ship with mass manager when performing a maximum range jump.
I just posted it as a reply to the big engineering feedback thread in the beta area.
Yeah...this is pretty weird, clearly I can see your second FSD is slightly better than my one, but like you mine is maxed.
Maybe there is still some small variation at the top for all engineered modules, so not all fully engineered modules are created equal?
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It’s the ghost of the RNG!
On a serious note, probably best report it if it looks like a bug.
Thanks for this excellent explanation! Reped! And bookmarked for future reference.
I think it may be worth noting that if you have a really small fuel tank as I do it's probably not better to focus on the higher boost of the "deep charge" option there. It's easy enough to be stranded as it is. Jumponium helps, but if your tank is virtually drained and the nearest scoopable star is far enough even it won't help. I focused on optimal mass with my RNG runs (ugh, don't want to ever do that again and it still wasn't really where I wanted it) and have still managed to get myself dangerously close to being stranded a few times (yes, carelessness, but come on, when you're making hundreds or thousands of jumps -- especially between spirals -- it happens.) Luckily I've never had to call a Fuel Rat yet and jumponium has saved me the few times I did this. If it were less fuel efficient though, even jumponium might not have saved me...
Actually, IMO that's a potential benefit to focusing on optimal mass regardless. It means you'll always be more fuel efficient and thus always more able to get out of a pinch when those tanks are down to fumes. There are tradeoffs each way, but it's the safer choice if you're just not sure.
Actually, IMO that's a potential benefit to focusing on optimal mass regardless. It means you'll always be more fuel efficient and thus always more able to get out of a pinch when those tanks are down to fumes. There are tradeoffs each way, but it's the safer choice if you're just not sure.
With or without deep charge, your FSD will still give you the same jump distance per liter of fuel. The boots just allows you to use more fuel on a jump to give you that much more range on a single jump.
That said, just because you can use extra fuel on a jump, doesn't mean you have to.
Manually plotting to the nearest scoopable won't use any more fuel that it would without the deep charge.
That said, just because you can use extra fuel on a jump, doesn't mean you have to.
Manually plotting to the nearest scoopable won't use any more fuel that it would without the deep charge.
