Mathematically, the balance on this CG has been a miss

babelfisch

babelfisch
Watcher said:
Without reading the rest of the thread...

Is it required that the CG be balanced?
I mean traditionally that has been the case but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that FD would want to set up CGs that are unbalanced for narrative reasons - commanders might still manage to push things the other way but that just makes that difference all the more interesting and pushes the story in a different sort of direction.
Perhaps we'll be seeing more of this in the future too.
More interesting CG rewards, more unbalanced CGs.
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Depending on your viewpoint this was the most balanced CG we ever had. Or not.
Anyway, I am not sure it even makes sense to speak about balance. The narrative outcome is impossible to balance because both sides of the CG have entirely different consequences. How do you balance the amount of escaping fleet carriers?
What we can do is to look at individual points based on personal preference:
The tiers, participants, total contributions, contribution per participant, etc. If these points are relevant (or balanced) or not completely relies on your personal opinion so I guess each side of the argument could make a valid point. Objective truth probably can't be found.
 

PaulieWotsit

PaulieWotsit
I think this whole mathematical thing is missing the point, which is lore progression. It shouldn't be about financial rewards (although I can see how that would skew things) but about the storyline where the empire are, well, being empire-like and smashing any dissent to the status quo (regardless of the terrorist attack, of which the empire has failed to provide any actual evidence of who was behind it) versus the internal faction crying out for a voice. Players who are taking part in the storyline have their rl feelings about this sort of thing influencing the sides they're fighting for, and, while the targets appeared skewed, they are quite realistic in terms of a major superpower asserting their dominance over a minor dissenting faction.

And, incidentally, I agree that a CMDR shouldn't be able to fight for both sides...
 

Vetinari

V
For me personally I just wanted a break from CZ combat. I think Id feel the same if it was back to back Trade, Explo or Combat CGs, I push it for 7 days max then want to do something else....so this time I spent a few days just pottering around but I do intend to join in, not going to help much but will add 1 more Cmdr to the stats of 'Likes CGs' and 'Supports this, more please'...but I may bring the average down which will mess up next weeks CG, yeah you can blame me next week regardless, give Frontier a break for a week :)
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
Vetinari said:
For me personally I just wanted a break from CZ combat. I think Id feel the same if it was back to back Trade, Explo or Combat CGs, I push it for 7 days max then want to do something else....so this time I spent a few days just pottering around but I do intend to join in, not going to help much but will add 1 more Cmdr to the stats of 'Likes CGs' and 'Supports this, more please'...but I may bring the average down which will mess up next weeks CG, yeah you can blame me next week regardless, give Frontier a break for a week :)
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I shall choose to blame you now, with fair warning, and in advance of whatever the next CG is/are - you will be held solely responsible for anything and everything that could possibly go wrong, and I shall shout from the rooftop of Frontier Towers that it is all your fault.

You big turd.
 

Rainbro

Rainbro
Frontier set Tier 5 for the Empire at 25 billion, and Tier 5 for the Marlinists at 45 billion. This almost perfectly accounted for the different levels of support each side had, as shown by the fact that each side remained roughly neck and neck when you look at progress towards T5. They should have stopped there and we would have had an incredibly well balanced CG.

The problem is that Frontier then in addition to that set the Empire's Tier 2 incredibly close to Tier 1, giving them an immediate tier advantage that couldn't be properly countered by the Marlinists unless they managed to push all the way to Tier 4, which was never going to happen due to how high it was.

This might be intentional, given the story here. The Marlinists are fleeing, not fighting to win. But it's certainly not "balanced". If you took everyone who participated in the CG and put them all on the Marlinist side, they still wouldn't hit Tier 3, let alone 4.
 

Sasquatch_Punter

S
Personally I don't see the problem. Requiring a more definitive victory from rebels makes sense story- and lore-wise, and that's what these CGs are. They're ingame narratives not designed to be perfectly balanced or fair, otherwise we might as well just hold a forum vote on the outcome.
 

aRJay

aRJay
Magister Mundi said:
Hey, good for you! I'm glad the RP element alone is enough to satisfy you. However, I personally would prefer balanced reward tiers, and I can't imagine I'm alone in that.
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They have tried CGs where the tiers were equal, quite often that meant the more popular side finished the CG by the Sunday especially as people defected to be on the winning side, followed by lots of complaints that the CG didn't last its full time.
 

fennster

fennster
Rainbro said:
Frontier set Tier 5 for the Empire at 25 billion, and Tier 5 for the Marlinists at 45 billion. This almost perfectly accounted for the different levels of support each side had, as shown by the fact that each side remained roughly neck and neck when you look at progress towards T5. They should have stopped there and we would have had an incredibly well balanced CG.

The problem is that Frontier then in addition to that set the Empire's Tier 2 incredibly close to Tier 1, giving them an immediate tier advantage that couldn't be properly countered by the Marlinists unless they managed to push all the way to Tier 4, which was never going to happen due to how high it was.

This might be intentional, given the story here. The Marlinists are fleeing, not fighting to win. But it's certainly not "balanced". If you took everyone who participated in the CG and put them all on the Marlinist side, they still wouldn't hit Tier 3, let alone 4.
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Players managed to claim 41 billion in combat bonds last week for side of the CG, so tier 4 was not never going to happen.

The difference is the participation numbers are lower, which could be down to many things, I.e. the lack of extra rewards or apathy for the story. I think it's more likely fatigue from back to back combat CGs, it's what has happened historically with repetition.
 

Rainbro

Rainbro
fennster said:
Players managed to claim 41 billion in combat bonds last week for side of the CG, so tier 4 was not never going to happen.

The difference is the participation numbers are lower, which could be down to many things, I.e. the lack of extra rewards or apathy for the story. I think it's more likely fatigue from back to back combat CGs, it's what has happened historically with repetition.
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True. Something I forgot to mention though was that this CG is also a day shorter, so proportionally it'd be about 35 billion with the same participation. I think that's about Tier 4, but that's still not going to happen without a module or decal to entice independents in.
 

aRJay

aRJay
Episparh said:
Well, I certainly had my conclusion. It is very unlikely for me to participate in handy capped CGs in future and even if I do it would be just to ensure my access to exclusive rewards. I have played other games where handy caps were attempted in different ways - it is always a roflstomp for one of the sides regardless. The other part I do not like is allowing players to participate simultaneously in two contradicting sides.
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It is 13 hours until the CG ends, neither side is going to complete, there is only around a 4% difference between the sides in terms of % completion. I am afraid I just don't see where one side has stomped all over the other this is going to end up a closer run thing than Waterloo was.

I tend to agree about only allowing players to sign up for one side in competitive CGs, if that was introduced FDev might get more sales as people set up Alt accounts.
 

DemiserofD

D
These assertions don't make sense from either an in-universe or out-of-universe context.

In-universe , this is a fight between a small Rebel faction and a huge Empire. It would make zero sense if the small Rebel faction had even odds of beating the huge Empire. In any realistic scenario, the rebels would have everything against them; in my opinion, this is actually too evenly balanced to be realistic.

Out-of-universe, it's doesn't make terribly much sense either. This is a competition, not a mission. Not everyone is supposed to win. The ideal competition is one that is neck-and-neck right up until the end. If the winner is going to be determined in the first 24 hours, why bother running for the whole week? Might as well end it early and save everyone a lot of trouble.

In my opinion, this CG is virtually perfectly designed. Good job, Frontier!
 
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Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
Ah, but come on, we all know what happens with your thumb whilst the four fingers are busy in their new home....

You are right though, this thread has taken a little of a tangent, from the balance of the current CG. But, I think we all need to know how Freddie got his nickname. Just be glad that I didn't suggest sending Frankie "The Snake" around - there's nothing slippery about this chap. But half the fun is working out how the mobster got their name, before they show you ;)


Edit - the pinkie finger is underrated - stick a couple on a kid's bike, and they'll never fall off again.
 
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